Beginner's guide to OBEs

[all16universes]

Hello everyone. I've been wanting to revive some discussion with lucid dreaming, out-of-body experiences, astral projection, etc. This post (possibly series of posts) will cover a variety of sub-topics and is mostly intended for beginners. There is a lot of confusion and bad information out there on these topics which makes it difficult for beginners. I hope to clarify some these topics and provide direction for those wanting to learn and explore the out-of-body state.

In this post:

(I) Some common acronyms

(II) My background

(III) Common mistakes

(IV) Tips and advice

(V) The basic OBE procedure

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(I) Here's a helpful list of common acronyms I will be using in my posts:

OBEs - out-of-body experiences

OOB - out of body

AP - astral projection

SP- sleep paralysis

LD - lucid dream(ing)

HS - higher self

(II) My background:

Many experienced people in the OBE community seem to be naturals. It happens without very much effort. They often have had a very long history of lucid dreaming as a child before knowing what they were or what an OBE is. I am like many of you reading this -- I'm not a natural. I learned the hard way and put years into learning what works and what doesn't work. A close friend mentioned the idea of astral projection to me and I was instantly hooked. I read everything I could get my hands on and made attempts to AP for about two years straight before I had any success. To date, I've had approximately 60-70 experiences. With about a week of serious effort I can start having OBEs on a regular basis, which I attribute to the method I use. I hope to share my insights and knowledge so that others may reach success much more quickly than I have. Everything I will share is based on personal experience and trial and error, and I do my best to avoid belief-system (e.g. religion) biases. I suggest the same for those of you reading. Leave your biases at the door, keep an open mind, and enjoy.

(III) Common mistakes

1. Trying to AP at night

This is by far the MOST common mistake people make. DO NOT ATTEMPT AT NIGHT. Why? Your brain chemistry is optimal in the morning! (I'll spare the details but it involves your sleep cycles and melatonin/serotonin production) When I started out, I tried inducing an OBE every night. I NEVER had success with this. It wasn't until I started practicing in the early morning that I started making progress. This was the hidden key to my success.

2. Focusing too much on "vibrations" and other exit symptoms

One of the largest pitfalls (in my humble opinion) is focusing on the wrong goal. When you first learn about OBEs/AP you usually hear about "the vibrations" or sleep paralysis. For some reason or another people seem to think that the vibrations are necessary to have an OBE. So what happens? The focus changes from having an OBE to reaching the infamous vibrations. Then they try to convince themselves they've had vibrations because their arm twitched, but wonder why they fail to have an OBE. It's tough to avoid this when starting out. It's like telling someone to look for a lost dog without knowing what it looks like, but that they'll know it when they find it. I cannot stress this enough: Exit symptoms such as vibrations are not necessary to have an OBE. Although these symptoms are common, they won't always be there. I have had many OBEs where I had no exit symptoms whatsoever. It's definitely a good signpost for beginners, since it's great encouragement to know you're getting close, but I strongly encourage to maintain focus on reaching the OOB state itself, not the vibrations or some other sensation that you're "supposed to have" when you get close.

3. Wasting too much time on relaxation techniques

Ok maybe saying "wasting" is harsh. There are many benefits to be had from relaxation techniques. But as a beginner, it irritated me every time I came across an OBE technique that started out with saying "first relax your entire body...". I'm too impatient for that and so are many of you. Yes it's true your body must be completely relaxed to the point that it falls asleep, but we have a way around it. Simply go to sleep and try to catch yourself rolling around in your bed between dreams (which naturally happens between sleep cycles). Your body will be completely relaxed, you'll be in the awake asleep threshold, and it will most likely be early morning -- all the things we need for a successful OBE, and all you have to do is go to sleep. Can't get simpler than that. It will take some practice to catch yourself between dreams. I personally believe this is THE most difficult part to having an OBE. Waking up at the right moment brings you to the proverbial door; all you have to do is walk through it.

4. Trying to prove that OBEs are "real"

I won't say much on this right now -- I plan on writing an entire post discussing this. But I will ask you this: Is anything real? Can you prove that what you're experiencing right now is real? Can you know beyond all doubt that this isn't a virtual reality? It's interesting to think about. OBEs are just as real as what you perceive to be your reality in the sense that you can't prove that either one is real. Let go and accept it. You are better off spending your time OOB learning and exploring than wasting it on a wild goose chase.

5. Interpreting your OBEs with religion

I don't care what you saw or who you thought you saw during your OBE. It wasn't an angel or God or heaven (well I guess it COULD have been). Religion is man-made; OBEs are not. OBEs should not be reduced to a man-made construct. Most religions require faith (belief without evidence). OBEs are real experiences. Don't limit yourself by denying your experiences because they don't fit in with your religion. Rather, accept your experiences and change your religion. Stay objective and don't make assumptions about what you experienced. There are so many people out there saying things like "I saw an angel" or "I saw a white tunnel so there must be a God". They saw SOME being or happened to be in a white tunnel, but they went a step further and interpreted what it was with their belief system. Instead, get into the habit of allowing yourself and your belief system to grow and change. Allow for other possibilities. Keep an open mind. When you think you know, you probably don't.

(IV) Tips and Advice

1. Again, attempt OBEs in the morning.

2. Keep a dream journal AND a regular journal. Set aside some time to write, read, and self-reflect. Self-reflection is HUGE. As you get farther down the OBE rabbit hole, you may come across a few hurdles that hold you back from making progress. For instance, I tried to get in contact with my HS numerous times without success. About a year later I was reading through a few journal entries, I realized that I had the answer all along. In fact my HS told me how to make contact long before I realized it. If I didn't take the time to keep a journal and self reflect I would still be stuck, and I wouldn't have made progress. Try it out. It feels a little weird but you get used to it over time.

3. From my experience, I find that I need to be completely immersed in OBE related material before I can have them. You really need to want it, and I recommend reading, writing, and discussing them. Do whatever you need to do to keep you wanting it more.

4. Many people have to overcome fear. Maybe it's my scientific background and inquisitive nature, but I've never had fear about OBEs. I'm convinced that your state of mind plays a role in the types of experiences will have. You need to tell yourself that nothing can harm you. It's best to not even consider harm as a possibility. Have you seen that movie Insidious? That doesn't happen unless you allow it to happen. People that worry tend to have horrible experiences. Do you believe you can be harmed in a dream? An OBE is basically the same thing. No worries, you're only exploring a dreamworld. Overcome your fears.

5. As an extension to (4), many people get scared when they have SP. If you REALLY don't want to push through the fear, simply change your breathing pattern and it will end. Right when our bodies fall asleep and wake up we enter into what are known as hypnogogic and hypnopompic states. Forget the crazy names, all you need to know is that during this states we often hallucinate. When your body is paralyzed and your mind is still awake, your subconscious needs to come up with an explanation for you. This is dependent on your state of mind. You might feel as though some dark entity is holding you down and gripping you tighter and tighter (I've experienced this only once). I've known someone who thought he was being possessed by the devil himself. Again, keep your religion out of this. Nothing can harm you and if you have a bad SP experience it was most likely a hallucination. Don't let this stop you from trying.

(V) OBE procedure

Many people get stuck when they try to exit their body and there are a variety of directions to take depending on the exit symptoms you may or may not be experiencing. This procedure is for the beginner -- it will bring you to the door; walking through the door will be explained more deeply in another post.

1. Go to sleep.

2. Catch yourself between dreams while you're sleeping. Set an alarm to wake yourself if needed (at approximately 4 hours after you have been sleeping), but I personally believe it's better to practice without it. This is quite possibly the most difficult step. The goal is to catch yourself at the sleep/awake threshold.

3. Lay perfectly still and notice your breathing, heartbeat, or the darkness behind your closed eyelids as you drift back to sleep. I say "notice" because you do not want to actively think about it. The idea is to hover between the sleep/awake threshold. Actively thinking will wake you up, which will make it more difficult to achieve the mind awake body sleep state.

4. Shortly after, you will most likely begin to feel sensations commonly associated with the onset of an OBE. These include vibrations, paralysis, or ringing in your ears. You may experience some, all, or none of these sensations. In some cases, you may bypass this stage altogether and "phase" into an environment (which might appear as a thought evolving into an interactable environment).

5. Exit your body. This is simple yet complicated. Everyone is different and finding what works for you takes practice. It's best to have an arsenal of exit techniques. I have a breakdown of techniques depending on the symptoms you experience, but these will be included in a future post. For now, practice steps 1-4 and see if you can get through the door.

More to come soon...

[stevemagegod]

Simply go to sleep and try to catch yourself rolling around in your bed between dreams (which naturally happens between sleep cycles).

That is actually the hard part. For me its the famous "twilight stage" of sleep that is difficult to get to. You have to be Super Tired and just about ready to fall asleep when the Vibrations hit ya. For me if i can get to that stage of sleep where i doze off for a brief second and then boom the Vibration Stage of AP hits me i find that OBE's are easy to achieve once i am at that stage of sleep. If i don't get p***ed that the Vibration Stage woke me from my Sleep that is......

One time when i was younger the Sensation of an OBE was so strong, that i actually found myself floating a couple inches off of my Room floor. However i don't remember what happened after that.....Back then i just thought it was a dream, but right before this i had an intense "Electrical Shock" from my head and it traveled all the way down my spline.

Edited October 16, 2013 by stevemagegod

[keninsc]

Never have been able to do this, and I think I've tried just about everything in the book to make it happen.

[all16universes]

Never have been able to do this, and I think I've tried just about everything in the book to make it happen.

Hi Keninsc,

I was like you and I'd like to help you out. Can you explain what you've tried and any small successes you may have had? Have you ever had a lucid dream? I have a few tricks up my sleeve that I'll throw together for you and post soon. It would be useful to know more about what you've tried or what progress you've made. Some people struggle with conscious OBEs and need to try alternate methods.

As for anyone else reading this, I'm here to help. If you want to learn or struggle, post something and I'll do what I can to help.

[freetoroam]

Exit your body? Like sleep walking...would rather not especially with an arsenal.

[all16universes]

Exit your body? Like sleep walking...would rather not especially with an arsenal.

What's actually going on during these experiences is up for debate. It's not like sleepwalking. More on this later, but think of an OBE like exploring your dreams while fully conscious, just as you are right now. We say "exit your body" because that's what it feels like -- as if your consciousness is leaving your physical body. Is that what's really going on? No one truly knows. Is it worth learning? Definitely. In a sense, it's the ultimate virtual reality. What do you have to lose?

Edited October 16, 2013 by all16universes

[stevemagegod]

Hi Keninsc,

I was like you and I'd like to help you out. Can you explain what you've tried and any small successes you may have had? Have you ever had a lucid dream? I have a few tricks up my sleeve that I'll throw together for you and post soon. It would be useful to know more about what you've tried or what progress you've made. Some people struggle with conscious OBEs and need to try alternate methods.

As for anyone else reading this, I'm here to help. If you want to learn or struggle, post something and I'll do what I can to help.

Conscious OBEs are not the same as Lucid Dreaming. Recently this past year i was able to achieve a partial separation fully conscious and not in a Lucid Dream State either. Basically before this happened i was working on keeping my mind 100% Awake at all times while my body was asleep. I succeeded when i was able to trigger the Vibrations. I then focused on making the sound in your head louder and it made these Vibrations very intense. And i actually felt my bed shaking along with me. I was able to move my Astral Arms and it felt like i was moving my Real Arms it was that intense. The only thing that stopped me from doing a full separation attempt was some random ass thought popped into my head and it said "What if i don't come back"? I believe that it was a last ditch effort by my mind to stop me from having a fully conscious OBE experience. And unfortunately for me i gave into that dam thought and stopped. I was so mad to because my mind was completely free of thought to so i don't know how that thought came into my head.

[all16universes]

Conscious OBEs are not the same as Lucid Dreaming.

No they are not the same, but they both get us to the same place. Some people need to use LDs to get to the OOB state because they struggle with achieving the right mental state to have conscious OBEs.

Glad to see you've finally had some success. I just want to comment on something you bring up: the vibrations. What I'm about to say is not necessarily true, it's only my interpretation. But I feel it's accurate based on my experience and research.

First, I want to share some advice. The next time you have vibrations, let them die down a bit before you try making an exit. It should be much smoother.

Why? Think of the vibrations as the static between radio stations. Contrary to what nearly everyone else will tell you, I believe the vibrations make exiting more difficult. It's hard to listen to a radio station filled with static, and too much static is an indicator that you're not fully tuned in to the next station. Let the vibrations settle down, then simply get out of bed. You may find yourself OOB (but you'll need an arsenal of reality checks at the ready).

Hope this helps.

[Himawari69]

Interesting post. Having sp and exited at the vibration stage by rolling off the bed mentally, indeed the experience can be overwhelmingly frightening to most. Especially while hearing strange unfamiliar sounds. Unfortunately I stopped due to the fear but I want to try again and continue. I say, for me simply imagining rolling off is easier than floating up, but it can tend to cause a spinning motion and make you a bit dizzy upon waking up.

[Himawari69]

Never have been able to do this, and I think I've tried just about everything in the book to make it happen.

the key is to startle yourself in a dream in order to suddenly wake up without your body being prepared for it. It works for me. Simply stare at your hands, look up, or spin and fall back while dreaming( you will have to be lucid) or simply notice something strange. Like a floating car, and tell yourself to get out of your body. You get startled and wake up in sp mode. From there you will get vibrations and hear a ringing noise. ( I hear ice falling sometimes) then imagine yourself rolling off of bed. It kinda feels like your in a bowl of syrup and its hard to move on your first time but youll get the hang of it

[all16universes]

the key is to startle yourself in a dream in order to suddenly wake up without your body being prepared for it. It works for me. Simply stare at your hands, look up, or spin and fall back while dreaming( you will have to be lucid) or simply notice something strange. Like a floating car, and tell yourself to get out of your body. You get startled and wake up in sp mode. From there you will get vibrations and hear a ringing noise. ( I hear ice falling sometimes) then imagine yourself rolling off of bed. It kefeels like your in a bowl of syrup and its hard to move on your first time but youll get the hang of it

Maybe it's just me, but your method here seems slightly counterproductive to me. I have a close friend who can only have OBEs like this. Everyone is different, but I'd like to make some suggestions. First off, LDs and OBEs get you to the same place: mind awake body asleep. The last thing you should be doing is trying to bring your awareness back to your body (vibrations, etc.). There's really no need for this -- the sensation of leaving your body is not necessary. Not to mention, always ending up in your room gets boring. Next time you're lucid, try rubbing your hands together or blowing on them. This usually brings me to full awareness. Once you've become fully aware, I suggest you practice changing your dream environment. I find that my most rewarding experiences happen when I don't actually leave my body -- instead I "phase" into different environments. You should be able to do the same from your lucid dreams. It's worth learning.

[Himawari69]

Maybe it's just me, but your method here seems slightly counterproductive to me. I have a close friend who can only have OBEs like this. Everyone is different, but I'd like to make some suggestions. First off, LDs and OBEs get you to the same place: mind awake body asleep. The last thing you should be doing is trying to bring your awareness back to your body (vibrations, etc.). There's really no need for this -- the sensation of leaving your body is not necessary. Not to mention, always ending up in your room gets boring. Next time you're lucid, try rubbing your hands together or blowing on them. This usually brings me to full awareness. Once you've become fully aware, I suggest you practice changing your dream environment. I find that my most rewarding experiences happen when I don't actually leave my body -- instead I "phase" into different environments. You should be able to do the same from your lucid dreams. It's worth learning.

interesting. Indeed everyone is different, I just find it easy this way. Thanks for the advice, Its not so boring to end up in my room to me, but I do get scared out of nowhere, so maybe changing my enviorment can help. Thanks again

[aimlesswalk]

I have always wanted to have an OBE but the few times I tried to practice it while I was fully awake I was unable to control my breathing and enter the relaxed state necessary. I'm glad the technique in this topic acknowledges the difficultly in controlling breathing particularly when feeling a sense of anticipation. I will try to follow the steps outlined in this technique as an OBE is something I would still like to experience and I also intend to concentrate on achieving lucid dreaming as well which I've only managed to do a few times. I have attempted to train my mind to lucid dream by constantly reminding myself that I will be dreaming before I fall asleep and this seems to have had the curious effect where I seem to be aware that I'm dreaming but not in a dream.

[all16universes]

I have always wanted to have an OBE but the few times I tried to practice it while I was fully awake I was unable to control my breathing and enter the relaxed state necessary. I'm glad the technique in this topic acknowledges the difficultly in controlling breathing particularly when feeling a sense of anticipation. I will try to follow the steps outlined in this technique as an OBE is something I would still like to experience and I also intend to concentrate on achieving lucid dreaming as well which I've only managed to do a few times. I have attempted to train my mind to lucid dream by constantly reminding myself that I will be dreaming before I fall asleep and this seems to have had the curious effect where I seem to be aware that I'm dreaming but not in a dream.

I will be posting more shortly, particularly about exit techniques and methods for lucid dreaming. I personally see no difference between the two, besides the obvious sensation of leaving your body. But as I brought up in another thread, no one knows if there is anything leaving our bodies at all. I see them as two methods to get you to the same place.

More to come.

[aimlesswalk]

I will be posting more shortly, particularly about exit techniques and methods for lucid dreaming. I personally see no difference between the two, besides the obvious sensation of leaving your body. But as I brought up in another thread, no one knows if there is anything leaving our bodies at all. I see them as two methods to get you to the same place.

More to come.

I look forward to reading them and on the point of OBE's although I said earlier I hadn't done this I do recall many years ago a dream I had where I was looking at myself sleeping from the ceiling above. In hindsight this may have been an out of body experience? Also I occasionally use to feel as though my body was dropping through the bed when I was younger and I would suddenly jolt back up to the bed quickly.

Edited October 23, 2013 by aimlesswalk

[Himawari69]

I will be posting more shortly, particularly about exit techniques and methods for lucid dreaming. I personally see no difference between the two, besides the obvious sensation of leaving your body. But as I brought up in another thread, no one knows if there is anything leaving our bodies at all. I see them as two methods to get you to the same place.

More to come.

please post soon. Your technique has kind of began to work for me, however, I have become stuck in the exit stage. Hope to see your posts soon

[stevemagegod]

So guys this morning i had a weird experience and i am not quite sure if it was the beginning stage of Sleep Paralysis and or the Vibrations. So early this morning i had this strange sensation on the right side of my body and then i heard this really loud sound in my ear i think my body panicked for some reason and then the sensation left me. It was really quick but i have never felt anything like that before.

Edited October 24, 2013 by stevemagegod

[all16universes]

Haha will do. Can you tell me more what you've tried/be more descriptive? In particular, are you experiencing any symptoms? Vibrations, paralysis, ears ringing, or none? I have very specific suggestions depending on what you're experiencing.

Will post the exit techniques soon! (Most likely tomorrow)

[all16universes]

So guys this morning i had a weird experience and i am not quite sure if it was the beginning stage of Sleep Paralysis and or the Vibrations. So early this morning i had this strange sensation on the right side of my body and then i heard this really loud sound in my ear i think my body panicked for some reason and then the sensation left me. It was really quick but i have never felt anything like that before.

Sounds like your body was falling asleep while you were conscious. If you remained calm you probably begin feeling vibrations and or paralysis. That's EXACTLY the point you want to reach. You just need to pay attention to your breathing or heartbeat (but don't actively think about it! Just notice it). Next step is the exit. Again, I'll have these posted soon.

Edited October 24, 2013 by all16universes

[stevemagegod]

Sounds like your body was falling asleep while you were conscious. If you remained calm you probably begin feeling vibrations and or paralysis. That's EXACTLY the point you want to reach. You just need to pay attention to your breathing or heartbeat (but don't actively think about it! Just notice it). Next step is the exit. Again, I'll have these posted soon.

That was basically that dam "Twilight Stage of Sleep" that i was talking about in my earlier posts. I swear its so much harder to access when you want to get to that stage versus just trying to fall back asleep.(Which is what i was trying to do lol to be honest). I honestly don't know why i panicked though its not like i haven't felt the Vibrations before. After that happened i thought to myself **** why did it startle me? I could of tried working with it using some of the techniques.

[all16universes]

Ok this post includes a variety of exit techniques, reality checks, and lucid dreaming techniques.

(1) Making the exit

Once you've managed to reach the awake sleep threshold, you'll most likely begin to experience a combination of some, all, or none of what we'll call "exit symptoms". Of these symptoms, I will be focusing on paralysis and vibrations. From my experiences and trial and error, I've found that some techniques work particularly well for certain symptoms.

(a) If you only feel vibrations

Method #1: Allow the vibrations to die down a little, then simply get out of bed. This method requires reality checks (at least a few). These are explained in the next section.

Method #2: "Phasing" -- Focus your attention on the blackness behind your closed eyelids. Begin imagining a place or environment you are familiar with, or allow a scene to develop from the random images that will form. For instance, imagine walking around your house or your bedroom. Use as many senses as you can to make it come to life. The sensation of touch is particularly important. Eventually the imagined place will evolve into an interactive environment and you'll suddenly find yourself part of it. The place you imagine can be a real place or made up. This technique is very useful for getting around while OOB and finding (or creating) new environments to explore. This method does not require reality checks which is an added bonus.

( b ) If you feel paralysis

Method #1: Use the phasing technique described above.

Method #2: Focus on wiggling a finger free. Then work on getting your hand free, then the rest of your arm. At this point just push yourself out. This method requires no reality checks.

( c ) If you have no symptoms

This might be a sign that you havent reached the awake asleep threshold. Symptoms are not necessary though to have an OBE. Use the phasing technique outlined above.

There are other methods out there as well but these are the ones that have worked for me. Lately, phasing has been my go-to method since it works regardless of the symptoms you feel. It also has usefulness for getting around while OOB which I'll cover an another post.

(2) Reality checks

Reality checks are needed mostly when you use exit techniques where it's not clear if you made it OOB or if you're still physically awake. For instance, if you exit by attempting to just get out of bed, it's not clear if you physically got up or if you made an exit. Your mind is exceptionally talented at convincing yourself that you are physically awake. Never rely on a single reality check. Have at least three in your arsenal. Here are some that I use:

Jump -- sometimes you float, sometimes you don't. Pay attention to the entire process. Did you fall back down in a not-so-ordinary way?

Look at your hands -- Simple yet effective. Often your hands will look strange.

Flip a light switch -- lights don't always work in the Dreamworld.

There are many more and you can come up with your own tests as well.

(3) Lucid dreaming

I have never been skilled in lucid dreaming, mostly because I never have given it much effort. The goal is simple: realize you're dreaming. How can we do this?

(a) Start writing your dreams down in a dream journal. This is important. DO IT!

( b ) After about a week, start reading through your dream journal to find your "dream signs". These are recurring themes, people, objects, places, etc., in your dreams.

( c ) Start performing reality checks when you come across these themes in waking life. I usually just stare at my hands and inspect them. You can do anything you want, but it's important that you seriously contemplate if you're dreaming or not. The idea is that this turns into a habit that carries over into the dream world which is triggered by your dream signs. For instance, I used to have recurring dreams of flooding. I might decide to do a reality check every time I see water.

There are other methods too, but I'll leave you with this for now. Still more to come! I'll share some advice with prolonging the experiences and things you might consider doing once you make it OOB. Also I'll provide some "what to expect" details.

Edited October 25, 2013 by all16universes

[aimlesswalk]

Very useful advice and I mean to start making a dream journal because being able to eventually achieve lucid dreaming is an aim of mine and I would like to approach astral projection from the avenue of lucid dreaming. Actually being able to astrally project is probably beyond me at the present time but I would like to be able to experience it one day and to investigate the distinction between lucid dreaming and astral projection which seems to be somewhat blurred. I'm particularly interested in the 'phasing' step you mention whereby visualising an environment you can subsequently interact with it. Does this suggest that the entire experience of astral projection could be an advanced form of visualisation or is it simply a means to navigate through your surroundings when in the astral state?

For me the benchmark which would validate astral projection is whether or not the my surroundings would be indistinguishable from when awake.

Edited October 25, 2013 by aimlesswalk

[all16universes]

It's as real as you want it to be. I've experienced things in OBEs that I cannot explain. From this I form my own beliefs. You need to discover for yourself if it's just advanced visualisation and don't let anyone convince you otherwise. It might sound bizarre but I learned the "phasing" technique from what I would call my higher self (others call them guides, etc.) I constantly got stuck at paralysis/vibrations and couldn't exit. One day I again got the the vibration stage and suddenly "heard" (for lack of better words, completely indescribable feeling) two voices talking to me. They said I was making it more difficult than it needed to be. They told me to look at the clouds in the distance. All I could see was blackness (my eyes were closed). Suddenly I see some clouds form. I focus on them and suddenly I'm in a new environment in the presence of these two beings (one male one female). I asked them how I can get back here (back to them); they told me that was the easy part, and left it at that. It took me about a year to figure out what they meant. For me, anytime I wish to speak with my higher self/guides, I simply look to the sky for clouds in my dreams/OBEs and suddenly my environment changes. Some deeper/higher part of my consciousness taught me how to do this. My normal state of awareness/consciousness was completely unaware of how to do this before this experience. This I cannot explain away as simply an advanced visualization. For a non-religious view, you might say my subconscious established a way of communication with my conscious mind. This is equally amazing to me.

Also, your surroundings can be distinguishable and indistinguishable at times from waking life. There are varying degrees of vividness. What's remarkable is that you can experience hyper-reality, where things seem MORE real than the physical. The visual aspect of our physical reality is limited with our eyes. You cannot see detail anymore than your eyes allow. In the OOB state, this is no longer a limitation. At other times you experience things that are incomprehensible to the physical world and your consciousness has a hard time processing it when you wake up in the physical world.

More to come!

[White Crane Feather]

Very useful advice and I mean to start making a dream journal because being able to eventually achieve lucid dreaming is an aim of mine and I would like to approach astral projection from the avenue of lucid dreaming. Actually being able to astrally project is probably beyond me at the present time but I would like to be able to experience it one day and to investigate the distinction between lucid dreaming and astral projection which seems to be somewhat blurred. I'm particularly interested in the 'phasing' step you mention whereby visualising an environment you can subsequently interact with it. Does this suggest that the entire experience of astral projection could be an advanced form of visualisation or is it simply a means to navigate through your surroundings when in the astral state?

For me the benchmark which would validate astral projection is whether or not the my surroundings would be indistinguishable from when awake.

Even a being totally awake is an advanced form of visualization. Your reality is inside of you.

[aimlesswalk]

It's as real as you want it to be. I've experienced things in OBEs that I cannot explain. From this I form my own beliefs. You need to discover for yourself if it's just advanced visualisation and don't let anyone convince you otherwise. It might sound bizarre but I learned the "phasing" technique from what I would call my higher self (others call them guides, etc.) I constantly got stuck at paralysis/vibrations and couldn't exit. One day I again got the the vibration stage and suddenly "heard" (for lack of better words, completely indescribable feeling) two voices talking to me. They said I was making it more difficult than it needed to be. They told me to look at the clouds in the distance. All I could see was blackness (my eyes were closed). Suddenly I see some clouds form. I focus on them and suddenly I'm in a new environment in the presence of these two beings (one male one female). I asked them how I can get back here (back to them); they told me that was the easy part, and left it at that. It took me about a year to figure out what they meant. For me, anytime I wish to speak with my higher self/guides, I simply look to the sky for clouds in my dreams/OBEs and suddenly my environment changes. Some deeper/higher part of my consciousness taught me how to do this. My normal state of awareness/consciousness was completely unaware of how to do this before this experience. This I cannot explain away as simply an advanced visualization. For a non-religious view, you might say my subconscious established a way of communication with my conscious mind. This is equally amazing to me.

Also, your surroundings can be distinguishable and indistinguishable at times from waking life. There are varying degrees of vividness. What's remarkable is that you can experience hyper-reality, where things seem MORE real than the physical. The visual aspect of our physical reality is limited with our eyes. You cannot see detail anymore than your eyes allow. In the OOB state, this is no longer a limitation. At other times you experience things that are incomprehensible to the physical world and your consciousness has a hard time processing it when you wake up in the physical world.

More to come!

It doesn't matter to me if astral projection is an advanced form of visualisation or an external reality and I don't see why either has to be mutually exclusive and it would come as no surprise to me if the boundaries between mind and matter recede during this state of being. I envy you being able to communicate with your own higher self or latent subconscious and hope to be able to that myself eventually. I should think we have a lot to talk about. Also your remark about physical reality seeming to be more real also interests me greatly could it not be that outside the confines of how we perceive reality through the filter of our physical senses we can see the true essence of our surroundings which may be revealed to be extensions of our own consciousness if indeed all reality isn't an externalised projection of our internal consciousness anyway.

I can imagine that during astral projection you experiences things which would be incomprehensible in our waking lives just as I'm sure the narrow range of our sense does not permit us to perceive everything which exists around us. The memory seems to be woefully inadequate at remembering dreams as well (which is why I must start a dream journal) which leads me to believe that just as it is beyond the capabilities of our waking consciousness to fully recall dreams it is also unable to remember all that we can experience in the astral form.

Perhaps if the boundary between the conscious and subconscious could be dissolved then the physical world of matter would be shown to be an illusion of the senses?