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Low fast-food wages come at high public cost


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Odin, Henry Ford was facing the exact same argument from his peers about high wages that you make on your paper, but who was right in the end? Henry not the naysayers.

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You didn't read what I said at all did you?

Corporations make billions, the individual franchises do not.

$32 billion in sales divided by 34,000 restaurants worldwide is only an average annual sales of $941,176 per restaurant. Lets round up and say $1 million in sales and lets raise their profit to 5%. Thats still only $50,000 in profit a year.

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Odin, Henry Ford was facing the exact same argument from his peers about high wages that you make on your paper, but who was right in the end? Henry not the naysayers.

Comparing the food industry to the car industry is like comparing an apple to an iron ingot. They work on completely different models. Henry Ford could do what he did because he had the profits to do so, individual restaurants simply do not have the profits.

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  • McDonald's' $24 billion in revenue makes it the 90th-largest economy in the world
  • Counting $32 billion in revenue from franchise stores, McDonald's claims the 68th biggest economy, bigger than Ecuador
  • McDonald's hires around 1 million workers in the US every year
  • McDonald's is the world's largest distributor of toys, with one included in 20% of all sales
  • The Queen of England owns a McDonald's near Buckingham Palace as part of her vast real estate portfolio
  • For the next three years, McDonald's is going to open one restaurant every day in China

Do you still want to subsidize Mcd's employees? Because that's what this thread is really about.

You are forgetting that McDonald's (and most other fast food chains) are franchises. You can go out and buy a McDonald's, and you own it. You also pay the workers, and have to pay franchise fees. While the McDonalds name may be worth $24 billion, your single restaurant isn't worth anywhere near close to what it would need to be to pay your workers $15 an hour.

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Fast food restaurants run on a high food cost to low labor cost, low profit to high sales model. It works well, but is not meant to support people with families.

That's not exactly what I meant.

American society is based on a model of increasing wealth, but not necessarily increasing in relative conformity across the spectrum of society. Because of this, you are going to get greater disparity over time between relative incomes. You will also necessarily get ever increasing concentration of wealth among fewer and fewer in that society.

The fast-food model fits into this with a low-cost/low-price philosophy. While it caters to lower income persons, it also creates more lower income persons, thus facilitating this move to greater income disparity and greater concentration of wealth among fewer.

This model is inherently unsustainable. Sure, it can maintain itself for a while - maybe indefinitely if the increasing majority who have to put up with making less and less in comparison to others accept their role as 'profit-slaves' - but eventually the system will break unless wealth is redistributed.

Edited by Leonardo
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Regardless of how poor you may all believe the franchise owners to be (and your numbers are wrong because you averaged the worth of franchises when a franchise in china is obviously not going to be worth 1/10 of one in america) I was never arguing that fast food workers be paid $15.00. My argument is that profitable companies should not be allowed to send thier employees working 35 or more hours a week to the health insurance exchange because due to thier low wages they will qualify for cheaper plans. These plans will be paid for by increasing the premiums of the rest of us.

I for one do not feel like handing this type of welfare out to corporations like Walmart and McDonalds. The answer is either these companies need to provide health insurance coverage for thier employees or they need to pay them enough to purchase thier own plans. The government should also start fining these corporations for every employee that is on food stamps or qualifies for rent relief.

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Good thread. I think it cuts to the heart of the issue of the minimum wage in the US. They are having their wage supplemented by the rest of the US because the corporations refuse to do their job. Is that fair by any definition of the word? Is it functional capitalism when tax dollars are being spent to keep their workers alive? Minimum wage in Australia is around $18 an hour, and we have functioning McDonalds restaurants.

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again, Australia is NOT Usa.

way too different to even compare

thier dollar is worth just about what ours is.
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again, Australia is NOT Usa.

way too different to even compare

You're right, we believe in the living wage. We believe that capitalists who abuse the system should not be tolerated. We believe that we shouldn't foot the bill for irresponsible corporations. We believe that the minimum wage should rise with inflation. We also don't have this ridiculous belief that getting corporations to play by fair rules would cause them all to lie down and stop doing what they're doing. Ayn Rand is not a good source for political science.

We're the 12th wealthiest nation in the world, while being the 52nd most populous. We're second in the Human Development Index. We didn't go into recession with the rest of the world due to the Global Financial Crisis. We have freedom of speech, freedom of association and freedom of religion. We've also got barbeques, beer and nice weather. I think most Americans would find they like it here, and if you haven't visited I suggest that you do sometime.

One thing I think you should realize is that every government in the world is an experiment in government. You're allowed to look at the results of policies from other countries and see how they perform.

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You're right, we believe in the living wage. We believe that capitalists who abuse the system should not be tolerated. We believe that we shouldn't foot the bill for irresponsible corporations. We believe that the minimum wage should rise with inflation. We also don't have this ridiculous belief that getting corporations to play by fair rules would cause them all to lie down and stop doing what they're doing. Ayn Rand is not a good source for political science.

We're the 12th wealthiest nation in the world, while being the 52nd most populous. We're second in the Human Development Index. We didn't go into recession with the rest of the world due to the Global Financial Crisis. We have freedom of speech, freedom of association and freedom of religion. We've also got barbeques, beer and nice weather. I think most Americans would find they like it here, and if you haven't visited I suggest that you do sometime.

One thing I think you should realize is that every government in the world is an experiment in government. You're allowed to look at the results of policies from other countries and see how they perform.

so??? . my point in this patrticular thread was not that usa is batter than AU, it still doesn't change the fact that usa is not au. and things work differently here.

hey, may be AU can take all those Mcd workers that get min wage, and let them work for 18$ in your Mcd's. and give them all the things usa doesn't.

that is it, problem solved, all those that lost jobs, and work for min wage, should move to AU.

Edited by aztek
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so??? . my point in this patrticular thread was not that usa is batter than AU, it still doesn't change the fact that usa is not au. and things work differently here.

hey, may be AU can take all those Mcd workers that get min wage, and let them work for 18$ in your Mcd's. and give them all the things usa doesn't.

that is it, problem solved, all those that lost jobs, and work for min wage, should move to AU.

Interesting idea... now where would you buy your junk food then?

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so??? . my point in this patrticular thread was not that usa is batter than AU, it still doesn't change the fact that usa is not au. and things work differently here.

hey, may be AU can take all those Mcd workers that get min wage, and let them work for 18$ in your Mcd's. and give them all the things usa doesn't.

that is it, problem solved, all those that lost jobs, and work for min wage, should move to AU.

What exactly makes the USA such a special snowflake on this planet? There will always be an underclass - until we can completely automate cleaning and fast food service. These people, your fellow Americans who are somehow distinct from the rest of humanity, are entitled to a good quality of life just like everyone else. And those who aren't working minimum wage should not be forced to subsidize those who do because of corporate greed.

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Don't bother, aztek obviously thinks this thread is about fast food wages and not corporate welfare. He's a corporate stooge and who drinks the corporate koolaid and they didn't even have to pay him. :yes:

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I for one do not feel like handing this type of welfare out to corporations like Walmart and McDonalds. The answer is either these companies need to provide health insurance coverage for thier employees or they need to pay them enough to purchase thier own plans. The government should also start fining these corporations for every employee that is on food stamps or qualifies for rent relief.

Now that is different than raising the wages too much. I would agree with exploring this idea.

Raising the minimum wage too much obviously causes prices to rise. Now the people who have worked hard enough to be making $10-$14 an hour currently will be closer to the minimum wage. Chances are that their boss isn't going to raise their wage the same amount as the minimum just went up. That's why I'm against a minimum wage increase of too much. I don't believe it to be a good idea just to raise the minimum wage $3 or $4.

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Don't bother, aztek obviously thinks this thread is about fast food wages and not corporate welfare. He's a corporate stooge and who drinks the corporate koolaid and they didn't even have to pay him. :yes:

that is retarded statment, considering you have no clue what i do. lol. but go on, it is entartaining. hatters are hilarious

Edited by aztek
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What exactly makes the USA such a special snowflake on this planet? There will always be an underclass - until we can completely automate cleaning and fast food service. These people, your fellow Americans who are somehow distinct from the rest of humanity, are entitled to a good quality of life just like everyone else. And those who aren't working minimum wage should not be forced to subsidize those who do because of corporate greed.

Am I the only person on this earth that doesn't believe in all the entitlement and human right bs. What we consider as rights to life are just luxurys those before us fought and bled for. Reality or the universe doesn't care about your pursuit of happiness or blah blah blah. And just like those before you either you or your children's children will have to fight for those "rights" again.

Sometimes I wish we still had predators so everyone would get a dose of reality. Maybe there is a space saber-tooth tiger out there... you never know.

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that is retarded statment, considering you have no clue what i do. lol. but go on, it is entartaining. hatters are hilarious

OK then I take it back. Aztek is a corporate paid troll posting on this forum for a living and trying to distract people from the truth. Better?
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Am I the only person on this earth that doesn't believe in all the entitlement and human right bs. What we consider as rights to life are just luxurys those before us fought and bled for. Reality or the universe doesn't care about your pursuit of happiness or blah blah blah. And just like those before you either you or your children's children will have to fight for those "rights" again.

Sometimes I wish we still had predators so everyone would get a dose of reality. Maybe there is a space saber-tooth tiger out there... you never know.

And yet the ACA is law. So you can whine and b1ch about entitlements all you want but like it or not they are there. So live in your little bubble or start dealing with the truth from a where do we go from here given this set of rules. Because tha's reality. People like aztek are just fine having huge corporations paying crap wages to thier employees and the rest of us subsidizing thier living. How about you?
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And yet the ACA is law. So you can whine and b1ch about entitlements all you want but like it or not they are there. So live in your little bubble or start dealing with the truth from a where do we go from here given this set of rules. Because tha's reality. People like aztek are just fine having huge corporations paying crap wages to thier employees and the rest of us subsidizing thier living. How about you?

What are you talking about? When did I mention ACA???

And what huge corporations? This thread is about fast food Employees not getting paid enough...... You do know those corporations don't employ the guys who salt your fries.

Those who work for the "huge corporations" actually get paid good money and do office work. Fast food is a franchise business. That means "huge corporations" sell there name and services to small business owners who then employ that guy who puts salt of your fries.

Well that is the goal anyways sometimes the Franchiser has to take over if a Franchisee cant keep up with the costs, but they cant give those employees large amounts of money or you would kinda screw up the small business owners who are trying to meet cost, plus if no one buys the store due to bad sale area it usually shuts down.

Ah Reality.... See in reality dealing with problems is more difficult then lets throw someone elses money at it and then walking off patting yourself on the back.

The problem is these businesses are not managed properly, hell our society period. These types of jobs should not be a full time job unless you want a career i.e. Management.... and a few employees should be given full time plus higher pay as a minimum skeleton crew preparing to be management. The bulk of the workers should all be part-time(a second job to earn more money or while going to school) and just to show how much they care all that money they spend on full time benefits now could be used to create a work for tuition aid type of program for part timers.

These jobs should not be your only source of income unless you plan on being Management. They are easy brain dead jobs and that is the point. They don't want to work harder but coast on a easy job for the rest of there lives.

I know cause I have worked in Fast Food.... And yes most of the time they are high (smoke by the dumpster). Why do you think your order gets messed up so much, either there high or they're doing it on purpose (don't tick off the guy taking your order cause I have and they do put stuff in your food).

Now that my rant is over I want to ask you something OverSword... How much do you tip or would tip, if and when you go to a fast food establishment? Also to all those who say to raise minimum wage.... How much do you tip them for there hard work?

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in response to the trade assistance classes comment, I made use of that program. because the car factorys in my city, dayton Ohio. shut down, the trade assistance classes were so flooded no one could find a job in those trades.

no one. sorry couldnt quote the One im responding to from my. mobile.

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OK then I take it back. Aztek is a corporate paid troll posting on this forum for a living and trying to distract people from the truth. Better?

lmao. how much do you think corporate troll like me, gets paid by corporation?? min wage? or 6 figures???

Edited by aztek
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and to add to my comment, if the us govt had made it more desirable for companys to keep jobs here rather than making it more desirable to these companys profit margins to outsource, I do beleive we would have more than enough jobs here now.

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and to add to my comment, if the us govt had made it more desirable for companys to keep jobs here rather than making it more desirable to these companys profit margins to outsource, I do beleive we would have more than enough jobs here now.

yes we would, or so it seems. however i'm pretty sure things are no where as simple as they seem.

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