I ching, Tarot, how I used them

[Beany]

So its no different than using a puppet to talk to a child.

The difference being that children grow up, and learn to process emotions and thoughts in a constructive way. These pictures that people look at serve no purpose but to allow a delusion to continue.

As for my earlier money statement, y'all personally may not be using it for money,but I assume you bought these cards somewhere, or bought a book, and if all that's not true, well groovy you're playing with cards for free. The idea at its core though is a scam, like any other metaphysical thing.

You claim to use these for introspective thinking, why? Why these things?

Well, having dismissed differing opinions by calling people delusional or falling for scams, or suggesting it's wrong to be compensated for writing, publishing, selling books or cards pretty much says it all. As I said, the cards are neutral, it's what we bring to them, or any thing or situation in life that counts. As to you last 3 questions, read my earlier posts.

I would hope that your invective doesn't prevent others from posting their opinions, for fear of being attacked.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Beany

[Skep B]

I'm not being disrespectful, I'm being very respectful in that I think you're all capable of challenging my thoughts on this. Disrespect would be if I acted like I thought there was any legitimacy to it when I don't.

a delusion is belief in something not true, that's exactly what this is, belief these help you when they do nothing.

I stand by what I said.

As for personal knowledge, I know they think they need these cards for introspective thought. Which is untrue.

We aren't talking about children that's my point. Adults should be past the point of needing something like this, or if they do need something, it should be something moved on from.

I called noone a name, and I don't appreciate you inferring that I did.

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

Look..I realize that you believe in these things and obviously you feel you are getting what you want from it. Ok. Great. I really am happy that it works for you. Divination doesn't work for everyone and I prefer to have a straight line to my "sub conscious" rather than relying on pieces of decorated card board or carved pieces of stone.

To each his own. I accept your ways and I accept mine.

You don't realize -- they are tools not dogmas, not like religion. I don't hold beliefs over a tool/object being able to give me answers. I don't go to tools/objects to give me answers, i believe the answers lie in myself and inside every other being too. That is where the trusting in yourself and relationship with yourself comes in IF you are to access that part of yourself. And IF you are going to use these kind of tools, remember we are talking about your experiences of them, not mine. The answers are not in the cards, objject, tools, but in you! (I've been saying this all along btw)

I told you in my first post that i don't even use tarot. I use a pendulum which is more related to energy work because i happen to feel / sense energies which is nothing to do with this discussion. I prefer the straight line to my higherself / consciousness and always have done and do so via meditation. I just understand that to get the most from any tool it is about making that tool an extension of you and to do so you have to trust in yourself. The tool is nothing more than a tool for focusing intention, and as it so happens it does help some people link in or connect to themselves, like the ritual of a athlete to the ritual of a shaman.

Now, I can't say it any simpler than i have, it is not about commanding beliefs or religions or dogmas or making an external object something into an oracle that can answer all your questions for you. Your the one saying all that crap! and who keeps on bringing that stereotypical hocus pocus up, not me. Its in your perception to see all this a certain way and obviously to see people who do this stuff in a certain way, or you wouldn't come out with half the stuff u are, but by god it is possible to listen to what people are actually saying in this thread instead of regurgitating the same old stereotypical lines and realise that stereotypes are not always accurate portrayals and that goes for any field in life. This goes for you to SkepticalB.

In this thread you could actually learn something different if that is what you are looking for and if you guys are just wanting a mystic bell somewhere to shoot the nonsense with (your stereotypes V theirs because believe me there are plenty of people who meet that stereotype out there) then go to another site and find one because you aren't going to find that stereotype existing in this thread, and that's what makes it different if you can see that.

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

We aren't talking about children that's my point. Adults should be past the point of needing something like this, or if they do need something, it should be something moved on from.

That is a little strange to say. You really think we all stop growing and learning the moment we hit adulthood ? Because that is pretty much what you are suggesting there.

[Bendy Demon]

.......

Fine. Whatever.

I appreciate the discussion even if we do not agree.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Ryu

[Skep B]

That is a little strange to say. You really think we all stop growing and learning the moment we hit adulthood ? Because that is pretty much what you are suggesting there.

Quite the opposite, I'm saying that adults should learn to move beyond needing things like tarot cards to be able to think introspectively.

I'm saying in it, that if they feel the need to use them, they shouldn't be a permanent thing, as adults continue to grow and learn, they should move on past the point of needing things like cards, or chicken bones, or tea leaves, or rosary for them to be able to think

[Mikko-kun]

B, astrology is about basic laws of nature. It works with the same principle as feng shui in my opinion. And feng shui works like this: your room is messy, you feel more down. Your room is clean, you feel brighter. The words are not important on metaphysical but that you get what's behind them. It takes child playing with dolls to another level, though the kind of openness child has can truly help though it's better to season it with adult's discretion and sense of reality and relevance. Any tool can be used poorly or with great finesse, or anything in between. You just try to say metaphysical tools could only be used poorly as far as I can see.

Tarot isn't easy even for the open-minded at start because you need to understand the metaphoras more the more you wan to use tarot. Understanding those things is not the same as understanding the instructions on working and maintaining your dish washer machine. In the best case others can offer you very personal and often heavy-to-share life-experiences which can be related to certain things in tarot or astrology, but if you take a too robotic or clinical mindset to see them nothing more than ABC wordswordswords, then even them are no use to you. You get more use from it the more you can see your sore parts of life through them. Because the best therapists are those who have experienced the things first-hand.

Take it or leave it, but it's pointless to say it's all illusion if you dont even have an idea what you're talking about.

oh, and we do think introspectively... if you'd only know how much... but I bet you live in an illusion that you actually know what we are thinking.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Mikko-kun

[Skep B]

After a PM from Beany, I took his advice and reread the rules, while he was somewhat vague I thought, I still see the point he was trying to make.

I came into this topic with a clear mindset that the tarot is fake, and while I'm free to believe that, I am in the definite wrong here fr jumping into this topic wherein the established purpose was for Mark to explain how he uses tarot, not for some arrogant jackhole, like myself, to jump in and start swinging at everyone in the room in a never ending cycle of "prove it" "prove its not" ad infinite. My initial thought that it seemed Ryu was being ganged upon pushed me towards tossing my lot in.

SO, I sincerely apologize for my behavior in this particular thread, it was an oversight, not anything that was meant to be used in a malevolent manner.

Again, I am in the wrong per the rules, and I am sincerely, truly sorry for any behavior that came across as insulting to any person. My gripe is with the ideas, not any of you and I apologize

Edit************** for the sake of apoloogy

Edited October 20, 2013 by SkepticalB

[Bendy Demon]

You know, I really didn't feel I was being ganged up on but I do appreciate your views too.

I appreciate discussion as much as anyone else and I am accustomed to being called "wrong" or being told I am the one with the problem because I don't agree. I have had this happen on other forums and it's ok..that is how it is.

People can feel quite strongly about something and can get quite defensive when confronted with someone who doesn't keep step.

Dealing with my father is just one instance so....that is how life is.

So let the discussions continue.

[Simbi Laveau]

I see them all as psychological tools, too, Mark. Tarot can be especially helpful because of the art work on the cards. You know, a picture is worth 1,000 words. I've never read them as divination or to find answers to questions, just as a way to provide one possible explanation of how we got the current moment. Personally, the cards help me understand the person's thinking process & perceptions, and what kinds of positive changes might be possible if those things changed.

Yes, but that's only if e ery one uses the same deck.

The art work changes deck to deck, and yet the meaning should remain the same.

The Necronomicon deck visuals are very far removed from say the Japanese deck.

So a reading can change deck to deck, even if it's the exact same cards.

[Simbi Laveau]

I don't like the I Ching as a divination tool myself.

I understand the ba Gua quite well, but it just doesn't feel smooth to me.

I also do not like using runes. They just don't jive with me, despite my love of all things Norse.

I prefer tarot.

I like Cowrie shells too.

[Beany]

Yes, but that's only if e ery one uses the same deck.

The art work changes deck to deck, and yet the meaning should remain the same.

The Necronomicon deck visuals are very far removed from say the Japanese deck.

So a reading can change deck to deck, even if it's the exact same cards.

Everyone has their own way of reading the cards that works for them. Being familiar with the language of symbols helps, as does one's depth and breadth of knowledge.

[sutemi]

Everyone has their own way of reading the cards that works for them. Being familiar with the language of symbols helps, as does one's depth and breadth of knowledge.

I agree, I used to dabble with the Tarot and The I Ching, the first cards I bought were just the first ones I saw, I could afford, then after reading some of the works by members of ‘The League of the Golden Dawn’ I bought the Rider –Waite pack, I found the images very clear and so I didn’t have to refer back to a book to check their meaning. So perhaps one should find a design of Tarot Cards that ‘speak’ to the user. I used the I Ching for a short time for divination up until I got an out come that said, ‘The superior man does not need to ask questions.’ I was starting my meditational practices at the time and I saw a message that for me said practice your meditation and live your life in the Peace it brings. Since then I don’t bother with them. I also liked the book The Tarot Speaks by Richard Gardener.

It’s funny how some people are afraid of the cards I remember a girl at work many years ago she was frightened of the Hanged Man and the Death card, when I explained that the cards didn’t necessarily mean what she thought but could be looked at from a spiritual growth point of view, she then liked them.