Army briefing "Americans are threat"

[+OverSword]

LOL, you get defensive when I pointed you to a website? You fit right in with the Tea Party! Actually Joc, you are one person that I will not waste my time on. Have fun with your forum spamming...remember..you are making a difference!

Agent, just what political or moral values do you adhere to? I'm sure your favorite excuse for anything was "we were just following orders"

[Agent0range]

Agent, just what political or moral values do you adhere to? I'm sure your favorite excuse for anything was "we were just following orders"

Unlike you, I do not make excuses. If I feel something is right, that is what I adhere to. Another thing I don't do is read some BS on the internet and automatically take it as truth or conspiracy. I am more than capable of forming my own opinions.

[+OverSword]

Unlike you, I do not make excuses. If I feel something is right, that is what I adhere to. Another thing I don't do is read some BS on the internet and automatically take it as truth or conspiracy. I am more than capable of forming my own opinions.

Example? So far the only thing I've heard you say about the tea party is parrot standard attack the messenger not the message with your anti-tea party rhetoric. Tell me the original thoughts you have about it. Edited November 7, 2013 by OverSword

[Agent0range]

Example? So far the only thing I've heard you say about the tea party is parrot standard attack the messenger not the message with your anti-tea party rhetoric. Tell me the original thoughts you have about it.

I don't use rhetoric at all. I speak facts. The tea party say there are all for more freedoms, and try to strip basic freedoms away at the same time. What exactly do my thoughts on the tea party have anything to do with this? I share the same thoughts as 80% of Americans on the Tea Party.

[+OverSword]

I don't use rhetoric at all. I speak facts. The tea party say there are all for more freedoms, and try to strip basic freedoms away at the same time. What exactly do my thoughts on the tea party have anything to do with this? I share the same thoughts as 80% of Americans on the Tea Party.

Wow. 80% huh? Sounds pretty original so far. So is it the desire to have a fiscally responsible government that bothers you about the so called tea party (of course no such party exists) or perhaps it's the desire to eliminate the revolving door between big business and the agencies meant to regulate them? Or maybe it's the desire to ensure our federal government does not exceed its constitutional mandate?

[Beany]

Wow. 80% huh? Sounds pretty original so far. So is it the desire to have a fiscally responsible government that bothers you about the so called tea party (of course no such party exists) or perhaps it's the desire to eliminate the revolving door between big business and the agencies meant to regulate them? Or maybe it's the desire to ensure our federal government does not exceed its constitutional mandate?

I think one can have a desire to have a fiscally responsible government, or one that adheres to the constitution, and without being affiliated with the Tea Party. those concerns are not exclusive to the conservative right. The Tea Party does exist, at least according to the Tea Party website, Tea Party candidates, the news media, and all political organizations. The Supreme Court has historically decided constitutionality issues, not public opinion, which is as it should be.

wouldn't we be better off focusing on our commonalities instead of conveying some overt contempt & disrespect for those whose beliefs aren't 100% in line with ours? Because, really, for me, it's that idea that I'm stupid or crazy, or delusional because I'm not with their program that really bugs me. Anyone or any organization that promotes that kind of attitude is ultimately self-destructive.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Beany

[Beany]

The true threat to this country are those opposed to the constitution and individual rights. The government realizes that those who do not blindly follow the rhetoric are not going to fall in line and accept domination over their lives. The truth is a threat to the lies and all liars fear the truth.

"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our` servant, not our master!"

-Thomas Jefferson

I would say a threat to the country is also those members of the public who reserve the right to determine constitutionality on their own terms, politically or otherwise, bypassing the judicial system. Constitutional law is not based on public opinion, it's determined by the Supreme Court justices who between them have well over a century of legal experience and a firm grasp of law, through experience, studying legal precedents, education, and training.

And isn't the authority of the Supreme Court established within the constitution itself?

Edited November 8, 2013 by Beany

[+joc]

LOL, you get defensive when I pointed you to a website? You fit right in with the Tea Party! Actually Joc, you are one person that I will not waste my time on. Have fun with your forum spamming...remember..you are making a difference!

I'll ask you again..in plain simple terms any jarhead could understand...Are you a Capitalist...or are you a Socialist?

fifty bucks says he won't answer it one way or the other...

Edited November 8, 2013 by joc

[preacherman76]

Unlike you, I do not make excuses. If I feel something is right, that is what I adhere to. Another thing I don't do is read some BS on the internet and automatically take it as truth or conspiracy. I am more than capable of forming my own opinions.

Well we can all certainly see that. You stick to what you believe even after its long been proven a failure, or even a out right lie.

[preacherman76]

I don't use rhetoric at all. I speak facts. The tea party say there are all for more freedoms, and try to strip basic freedoms away at the same time. What exactly do my thoughts on the tea party have anything to do with this? I share the same thoughts as 80% of Americans on the Tea Party.

I guess that depends on which tea party group you are listening to. Sounds like you are describing the GOP establishment tea party, thats made up of the same neo cons that have been around for a long time. Actualy Im surprised you dont fit right in with them.

Then there is the grass roots tea party. Folks like my self, and from what I can see Over sword belongs to. People who actualy would like to see liberty in its fullness, brought about by small government and fiscal responcibility

[Beany]

One of the great ideas the founders of our country had was that of tolerance. That we could live & work together, despite our differences, for the good of our communities & country. For me, the practice of tolerance includes recognizing that while our political differences may be vast, that ultimately we all want a healthy government. When we begin to demean or belittle people because their beliefs are different than ours, when we begin to believe that our beliefs & opinions are not only right, but superior, and that those who hold different beliefs are stupid or ignorant, or foolish, is when we begin to degrade the ideals of democracy, that tenet that all men (and women) are created equal, that no one person is better than another. It's my belief & observation that in politics these days, that even common courtesy has often been abandoned in favor of polemics, which only serves to further separate us from one another. and who or what benefits when that happens? When we lose our cohesiveness?

[J. K.]

One of the great ideas the founders of our country had was that of tolerance. That we could live & work together, despite our differences, for the good of our communities & country. For me, the practice of tolerance includes recognizing that while our political differences may be vast, that ultimately we all want a healthy government. When we begin to demean or belittle people because their beliefs are different than ours, when we begin to believe that our beliefs & opinions are not only right, but superior, and that those who hold different beliefs are stupid or ignorant, or foolish, is when we begin to degrade the ideals of democracy, that tenet that all men (and women) are created equal, that no one person is better than another. It's my belief & observation that in politics these days, that even common courtesy has often been abandoned in favor of polemics, which only serves to further separate us from one another. and who or what benefits when that happens? When we lose our cohesiveness?

Are we even cohesive anymore? We are a country divided in two ideologically (or maybe idiot-illogically.) It seems that championing one's party is more important than providing legislation to benefit the citizens. Instead of cooperation, we have competition.

[+OverSword]

snip

Edited November 8, 2013 by OverSword

[Not So Common Sense]

I would say a threat to the country is also those members of the public who reserve the right to determine constitutionality on their own terms, politically or otherwise, bypassing the judicial system. Constitutional law is not based on public opinion, it's determined by the Supreme Court justices who between them have well over a century of legal experience and a firm grasp of law, through experience, studying legal precedents, education, and training.

And isn't the authority of the Supreme Court established within the constitution itself?

The main issue with your retort is the basic fact that the Constitution limits the powers of the government and protects the rights of citizens. Perversion of the Constitution is wrong, regardless of how the Supreme Court interprets. The interpretations should support the Constitution, not their own political agendas.

“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

- Abraham Lincoln

Edited November 8, 2013 by Not So Common Sense

[+joc]

One of the great ideas the founders of our country had was that of tolerance. That we could live & work together, despite our differences, for the good of our communities & country. For me, the practice of tolerance includes recognizing that while our political differences may be vast, that ultimately we all want a healthy government. When we begin to demean or belittle people because their beliefs are different than ours, when we begin to believe that our beliefs & opinions are not only right, but superior, and that those who hold different beliefs are stupid or ignorant, or foolish, is when we begin to degrade the ideals of democracy, that tenet that all men (and women) are created equal, that no one person is better than another. It's my belief & observation that in politics these days, that even common courtesy has often been abandoned in favor of polemics, which only serves to further separate us from one another. and who or what benefits when that happens? When we lose our cohesiveness?

Would you please be so kind as to share some of the GREAT ideas of Tolerance that our founders had? I would say that they did not Tolerate King George very well at all...and ...as long as the Indians and others left them alone...peace was a great thing...but Tolerance to whom and for what?

I like your post though...about belief and all...we are on the same page.

Edited November 8, 2013 by joc

[Sundew]

from the training manual : " many extremists will talk of individual liberties, states’ rights, and how to make the world a better place."

liberties? rights? that's bad enough! but imagine the Horror of waking up one day,eventually, to find the world a better place! That sort of thinking has to be stopped!!

Heaven forbid they mention the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Can I still say "heaven?"

[Beany]

The main issue with your retort is the basic fact that the Constitution limits the powers of the government and protects the rights of citizens. Perversion of the Constitution is wrong, regardless of how the Supreme Court interprets. The interpretations should support the Constitution, not their own political agendas.

“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

- Abraham Lincoln

Not saying the system is perfect, or that Scotus always makes decisions I agree with, but I do think the constitution is better off in the hands of the Supremes instead of whatever politic party or ideology hold power & authority. While I also see what I consider to be some perversions, they are not the same as yours. so whose perversions should be corrected, yours or mine? We have a political system meant to carry out the will of the people; that is not the function of our judicial system. Was I happy when Bush packed the court with conservatives? No, I was spitting mad. But I also knew that these things swing like a pendulum, which maybe is a good thing. And I think our legal system is as good as any on the planet, and better than most. Not pefect, but it has functioned pretty well over the last couple of centuries. It was well-crafted enough to endure this long and I suspect it will continue to endure, despite the immense political pressure it's subject to.

[Beany]

Heaven forbid they mention the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Can I still say "heaven?"

I would like to see a reliable, objective source of the training manual that's closer than 3rd of 4th party. I can't base an opinion on what some essentially anonymous person passes on from another essentially anonymous source. this is not meant to offend anyone, I was trained to do effective research, gather facts, statistics, find reliable sources, review all of the material, and then form an opinion. There are a lot of people out there making appeals to our emotions, and sometimes it takes every fiber of my being not to take the bait. And every now & then, I do take the bait, and always regret it.

[Sundew]

I would like to see a reliable, objective source of the training manual that's closer than 3rd of 4th party. I can't base an opinion on what some essentially anonymous person passes on from another essentially anonymous source. this is not meant to offend anyone, I was trained to do effective research, gather facts, statistics, find reliable sources, review all of the material, and then form an opinion. There are a lot of people out there making appeals to our emotions, and sometimes it takes every fiber of my being not to take the bait. And every now & then, I do take the bait, and always regret it.

You make a good point re the source material, however there is so much nonsense going on with our government currently that I would put little past them.

[aquatus1]

Which is another way of saying that you are perfectly happy just accepting this as truth without verification, since it supports your opinion of the government and all.

[Beany]

The main issue with your retort is the basic fact that the Constitution limits the powers of the government and protects the rights of citizens. Perversion of the Constitution is wrong, regardless of how the Supreme Court interprets. The interpretations should support the Constitution, not their own political agendas.

“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

- Abraham Lincoln

And who gets to define perversion? And what should be done? A minority? And shouldn't every citizen participate in that process?

[preacherman76]

And who gets to define perversion? And what should be done? A minority? And shouldn't every citizen participate in that process?

This is what gets me. The constitution doesnt need to be interpreted. All one has to do is read it litteraly. In the same way we would read a manual to fly a plane. When the courts interprets the constitution, it means they are trying to make it say something it doesnt. Or vice verse.

[aquatus1]

Nonsense.

For starters, the idea that the Constitution is infallible is not just silly, it is downright dangerous. There is, after all, a darn good reason why the founding fathers went out of their way to make it changeable. The Constitution hadn't yet finished drying its ink before the first patch was applied. Ten amendments, right off the bat. As in, "Whoops, just need to tweak this a bit, didn't get it quite right!".

Second, the world changes, society changes, laws change, and when all is said and done, there will be things that not only are not covered in the Constitution, they would have been utterly and quite literally inconceivable to the writers. It isn't even a question of interpretation of existing laws; there is literally nothing there to interpret.

Third, it has been over 2 centuries since the Constitution was written. To absolutely no one's surprise, the English language has continued evolving, as all living languages are wont to do. Even if we read it literally, there is no guarantee that we would get the right message. Words that have been around for much less than 200 years have had their definitions change to the point they mean the exact polar opposite of what they once meant. To read something from 200 years ago, by necessity, requires interpretation to modern day usage. Just look at the second amendment, and how people utterly refuse to agree on what it means, despite having the literal message right in front of us.

Incidentally, there is a reason why you can't get a pilot's license just by reading a book and taking an exam.

[Beany]

As a foundation for governing, it's a pretty workable document. Article 5 gives Congress the power to amend the constitution, so it seems the constitution was not intended to be set in stone. As for interpreting the Constitution, were amendments 18, 19, and 26 not added, people could be barred from voting based on race, and gender, and the 26th amendment lowered the voting age to 18.

[pallidin]

I would agree. To have a Constitution that is forever "static" is rediculous. The provision for Admendments correctly addresses that issue.