is UFO-logy starting from a miscoception

[qxcontinuum]

I can't help noticing by reading numerous threads on the forum that numerous respectable Ufologists tent to associate UFO's with Aliens and their sightings to out of space origins.

I don't understand why ...

First of all in the beginning I must analyze the wording itself UFO - Unidentified Flying Object... Therefore the science studying their behaviors, existence, sightings , claims, etc..should take in consideration all the aspects of it including Human or Technological origins, crafts nature phenomenons, etc...But... it doesn't !

Apparently a huge majority of Ufologists if not all of them are leaving from the premises that UFO apparition is something cosmological, Alien in origins and denying the human or nature factor at all cost. This is wrong, I have however all the respect and admiration for enthusiasts transpiring while trying to prove believes or what they want to call facts but I would call it more an obsession rather then a science or profession. It is more like Alchemy

[zoser]

I can't help noticing by reading numerous threads on the forum that numerous respectable Ufologists tent to associate UFO's with Aliens and their sightings to out of space origins.

A definition of an organic intelligence comparable or more advanced than us would naturally be the word 'alien'.

I have conjectured recently (and with good reasons which if you press me I will explain), that some of the unexplained craft witnessed may actually be resident here.

They are still 'alien' to us however.

If you are trying to make out that all sightings are either misidentifications or hoaxes, then I would strongly disagree with you. A good proportion of them are undoubtedly real.

Edited October 24, 2013 by zoser

[qxcontinuum]

If you are trying to make out that all sightings are either misidentifications or hoaxes, then I would strongly disagree with you. A good proportion of them are undoubtedly real.

In my opinion and based on what i saw online + read only 3% are truly unexplained and cannot be associated to human technology that we know off or nature phenomenons.

[Sweetpumper]

First of all in the beginning I must analyze the wording itself UFO - Unidentified Flying Object... Therefore the science studying their behaviors, existence, sightings , claims, etc..should take in consideration all the aspects of it including Human or Technological origins, crafts nature phenomenons, etc...But... it doesn't !

Sure it does. You're starting a thread off with lies. That doesn't help whatever case you're trying to make.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Sweetpumper

[aimlesswalk]

I've long thought that the UFO phenomenon may be somehow intrinsic to Earth of course this line of enquiry is nothing new Ufology luminaries such as Jacques Valle and John Keel have hypothesised that these pheonmeoma may be latent to this planet or human consciousness itself so no extra terrestrial hypothesis is necessarily required. It would perhaps explain why these objects have a vested interest in this world yet choose to remain unannounced.

[qxcontinuum]

I think it is truly just because people want / need to believe in something. It is in our nature genetically I would say the need to be challenged by mystery. We are living in a highly technological sophisticated era therefore it is becoming increasingly hard to be surprised by something anymore or to believe in God. Even more when spotting our own wonders and miracles we are tending to attribute these to mystical...

[zoser]

...

First of all in the beginning I must analyze the wording itself UFO - Unidentified Flying Object... Therefore the science studying their behaviors, existence, sightings , claims, etc..should take in consideration all the aspects of it including Human or Technological origins, crafts nature phenomenons, etc...But... it doesn't !

The vast majority of human objects are easily identifiable.

Chinese lanterns, Blimps, Planes, Helicopters, Kites, Balloons, Rockets, Drones

Then natural phenomena slightly more difficult perhaps: Sprites, Venus, Clouds, Ball Lightning, etc.

The objects that I see and classify as UFO's are none of the above.

So bearing in mind the above list then what on earth is this?

[aimlesswalk]

The UFO pheonmeoma may be altogether stranger than the somewhat prosaic alien visitors traversing interstellar space (which I certainly don't discount as a possibility) but if we are to look at the history of UFO sightings from the mysterious airships of the late 19th century, ghost rockets in the 30s, the flying disks seen by Kenneth Arnold, to cigar shaped crafts with porthole windows to the ambiguous black triangles it points to something all together more unusual in my opinion than mere extra terrestrial tourists surveying the planet (which they seem to have been doing for an awfully long time).

Edited October 24, 2013 by aimlesswalk

[aimlesswalk]

I think it is truly just because people want / need to believe in something. It is in our nature genetically I would say the need to be challenged by mystery. We are living in a highly technological sophisticated era therefore it is becoming increasingly hard to be surprised by something anymore or to believe in God. Even more when spotting our own wonders and miracles we are tending to attribute these to mystical...

That could well be and it's a good explanation as any that the history of ufology is nothing more than hoaxes, misguidedness, mass hysteria or apophenia all part of some deep psychological impulse to believe in something greater than ourselves but ultimately even this doesn't fully convince but is the closest to a satisfactory explanation that can be reached without entertaining the more fantastical suppositions.

Edited October 24, 2013 by aimlesswalk

[zoser]

That could well be and it's a good explanation as any that the history of ufology is nothing more than hoaxes, misguidedness, mass hysteria or apophenia all part of some deep psychological impulse to believe in something greater than ourselves but ultimately even this doesn't fully convince but is the closest to a satisfactory explanation that can be reached without entertaining the more fantastical suppositions.

Why fantastic? Is anyone really prepared to state that we are the only ones around? Not a likely thought imho.

[qxcontinuum]

Why fantastic? Is anyone really prepared to state that we are the only ones around? Not a likely thought imho.

I is proven that we are alone in our solar system. I doubt we are the only life existent in universe tho. However it seems unlikely civilizations located thou sent of light years away can visit each other. Universal physics is making it impossible. Every organic matter will be squashed in uncontrollably higher speeds required to do so...

Bending distances in universe through the black hole concept "warm holes" is a nice supposition but everyone comes to the conclusion that is Sci - Fi only.

Edited October 24, 2013 by qxcontinuum

[aimlesswalk]

Why fantastic? Is anyone really prepared to state that we are the only ones around? Not a likely thought imho.

I don't doubt that there could possibly be intelligent life elsewhere in the universe but I feel we're sometimes quick to make this assumption in relation to the UFO pheonmeoma when the explanation could be much more surprising and novel.

[zoser]

I is proven that we are alone in our solar system. I doubt we are the only life existent in universe tho. However it seems unlikely civilizations located thou sent of light years away can visit each other. Universal physics is making it impossible. Every organic matter will be squashed in uncontrollably higher speeds required to do so...

Bending distances in universe through the black hole concept "warm holes" is a nice supposition but everyone comes to the conclusion that is Sci - Fi only.

Or then again maybe not:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2219690/Familys-terror-UFO-hovers-rural-home-hours.html

[zoser]

Here is what dear old Morag saw in Fraserburgh (Scotland) in 2012:

Compare with what two boys saw in Denbigh (Wales) in the same year:

[media=]

[/media] Edited October 24, 2013 by zoser

[zoser]

I reckon it's the same object. One high up in the sky in Fraserburgh and one possibly landed in a field at the back of the boys house.

[aimlesswalk]

Even with the sightings which genuinely defy explanation I would still be hesitant to attribute an extra terrestrial cause to them for me the essential quality of these genuine sightings is that they do confound and defy all attempts at rationalisation (one theory is as good as any other) and to me this is intrinsic to the UFO problem which is that there can be no explanation to it and possibly never will. Even the assertion that these objects are secret military craft seems to fall flat in some of the outlandish sightings (e.g. crafts seen with occupants looking through porthole windows). I don't think there is any easy quantifiable answer to the ufo problem and maybe that's the way it should be.

Edited October 24, 2013 by aimlesswalk

[zoser]

Even with the sightings which genuinely defy explanation I would still be hesitant to attribute an extra terrestrial cause to them for me the essential quality of these genuine sightings is that they do confound and defy all attempts at rationalisation (one theory is as good as any other) and to me this is intrinsic to the ufo problem which is that there can be no explanation to it and possibly never will. Even the assertion that these objects are secret military craft seems to fall flat in some of the outlandish sightings (e.g. crafts seen with occupants looking through porthole windows). I don't think there is any easy quantifiable answer to the ufo problem and maybe that's the way it should be.

Totally agree. The images and footage in the previous posts confirm what you say.

UFO's. The question is where are they from?

[Space Commander Travis]

I is proven that we are alone in our solar system. I doubt we are the only life existent in universe tho. However it seems unlikely civilizations located thou sent of light years away can visit each other. Universal physics is making it impossible. Every organic matter will be squashed in uncontrollably higher speeds required to do so...

Bending distances in universe through the black hole concept "warm holes" is a nice supposition but everyone comes to the conclusion that is Sci - Fi only.

rather a lot of assumptions there. "It is proven that we are alone in our solar system"? Is it? "Bending distances in universe through the black hole concept "warm [prob. worm] holes" is a nice supposition but everyone comes to the conclusion that is Sci - Fi only."? Does everyone? Have you checked with everyone to make sure that they do?

[aimlesswalk]

Totally agree. The images and footage in the previous posts confirm what you say.

UFO's. The question is where are they from?

Well it's a question which we'd all like an answer to but part of me can't help but feel that knowing it would defeat the object of not just our interest in the phenomena but literally the phenomena itself.

I find ufology more engaging when every possibility no matter how absurd or surreal could still be an option and I wouldn't like to get to a point where we could say definitely that it is either one or two things such as secret military or alien visitors as that would be reductive to the essential strangeness of the phenomenon which makes it so captivating. I think there is more going on here then either of those things.

Edited October 24, 2013 by aimlesswalk

[Space Commander Travis]

I must say, I rather like the idea that UFOs might be some kind of life themselves, not just that they're craft controlled by some intelligent life. Or perhaps some kind of manifestation of an intelligence that's beyond what we can dettect with our current level of technology? People put forward Earth lights and suchlike things as a rational and prosaic explanation, but what if that isn't such a prosaic explanation after all? And what if

[Space Commander Travis]

Another of my favourite theories, whether tongue in cheek or not is for you to decide, is the "atmospheric jellyfish" idea; that there are creatures living in the upper atmosphere,that don't fly like birds & suchlike, but spend all their lives floating about the atmosphere just like Jellyfish and similar things in the oceans. Sometimes they might come down low enough to be seen, and then they're reported as UFOs.

[Space Commander Travis]

And then there's the idea that, just as there's a limited spectrum of sound or light that we can see, if the material world that we inhabit is similarly only a limited band on a much wider spectrum, and things and indeed life might exist further along this spectrum than we can ordinarily see, hear or detect, but occasionally, for whatever reason, they overlap and we can see them for a brief period. This might also account for a wide range of phenomenomena, such as fairies and otherworldly beings, ghosts, and a whole range of cryptozoological reports. It might indeed be a big Unified Theory that explains, if not everything, then quite a lot of it.

(What's that? You can't see sound? You know what I mean. :-/ )

[aimlesswalk]

Another of my favourite theories, whether tongue in cheek or not is for you to decide, is the "atmospheric jellyfish" idea; that there are creatures living in the upper atmosphere,that don't fly like birds & suchlike, but spend all their lives floating about the atmosphere just like Jellyfish and similar things in the oceans. Sometimes they might come down low enough to be seen, and then they're reported as UFOs.

I really like this idea although I doubt it will be taken too seriously but for me it is all part of the myriad theories which makes speculating on UFO's so interesting and it would be a shame if we could conclusively reduce genuine sightings to only A: secret military technology or B: alien visitors when I personally find the outlandish and bizarre explanations more appealing. I still prefer the notion that UFO's are intrinsically connected to us or this planet in some subtle way and this may not be so far fetched when a proportion of sightings seem to involve water or the oceans in some way.

Edited October 24, 2013 by aimlesswalk

[zoser]

Another of my favourite theories, whether tongue in cheek or not is for you to decide, is the "atmospheric jellyfish" idea; that there are creatures living in the upper atmosphere,that don't fly like birds & suchlike, but spend all their lives floating about the atmosphere just like Jellyfish and similar things in the oceans. Sometimes they might come down low enough to be seen, and then they're reported as UFOs.

Is that what the S American's call EBANI?

[aimlesswalk]

If extra terrestrials are stealthy surveying the Earth or conducting some covert operation then there making a pretty poor job of keeping their presence hidden which if indeed they are a race far in advanced of us with a superior technology millions of years ahead of us then you'd think keeping out of sight wouldn't be too difficult. However the opposite seems to be true and they can't seem to help being seen almost as if they want to be seen which to me points to a singularly different scenario than extra terrestrials simply visiting us.