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Dragonwind

Crocodiles are dragons, snakes the serpent

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I have never really had much objection with the aquatic ape theory (AAT) in general and in recent years it has been advanced considerably. The basic premise is that going back a few million years, probably as a result of ice age dynamics, early homo species exploded out of waterways, estuaries, mangrove habitats and some coastal areas resulting in possibly early bipedalism, lack of 'fur' and a host of other aquatic adaptions unique to humans amongst the primates.

As Ice Ages created large swampy, marine wetland and inundated habitats, early homo was faced with a huge opportunity for procuring rich sources of food. Later homo started exploring Savanahs and more inland areas.

If were to assume this is true, many of our old myths of the serpent and even dragons could come from the dangerous animals homo would have encountered, feared and tried to avoid/respect in these types of environments.

I'd like to open a (speculative perhaps) discussion on this subject. That the myths of the serpent and dragon go back much further than previously thought and are ingrained into our conscious and story telling from the earliest days of aquatic exploration where snakes and crocodiles are common. Thoughts?

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This is a really cool theory :)

Dragons are also likely to be something else.

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The only problem is that the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis (since it doesn't really deserve to be called a theory, as it has not been backed up by any evidence) has been comprehensibly refuted. This is a good place to start

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Interesting....who really knows?

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That could be the case without changing the ToE. We tend to stretch and embellish the truth, especially over the years. We're fools for fiction.

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Dragons are well known as mountain creatures, so it is unlikely homos would have encountered them until well after leaving the coast. That said, it could be possible that the dragons actually headed to the coast in search of easy prey.

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This theory "holds water" (no pun intended) without resort to the AAT. In fact, no lesser a scientific light than Carl Sagan espoused this primal memory of large reptiles theory in his book Broca's Brain (mid- to -late-70's). As you note, the fear of large crocodilians and huge snakes (which exist still) could have left quite an imprint on developing human intellect, memory, folklore and campfire stories. It would have been an adaptive trait to be aware of them, sensitive to them, even to fear them.

Edited by szentgyorgy
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Without AAT (which of course goes too far), we can consider that it may be early humans and some proto-humans lived mainly on shorelines. Especially the earliest migrations out of Africa may have been along the Indian Ocean beaches, of which we have no records since they are now underwater.

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Without AAT (which of course goes too far), we can consider that it may be early humans and some proto-humans lived mainly on shorelines. Especially the earliest migrations out of Africa may have been along the Indian Ocean beaches, of which we have no records since they are now underwater.

That's right, irrelevent of AAT, humans have and still do focus naturally on waterways and less so mountains. We find remains in caves because they are good places for fossil formatation whereas aquatic habitats much harder.

I guess it's that these reptilian myths appear to go back a long way and they are focussed on water rather than savannah environments.

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Komodo dragon it is said to eat people and have some sort of lethal bacteria that feels like a burning substance. I guess this is where the fire breathing stories come from, from giant lizards ie Komodo.

The serpernts are the giant oar fish

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ha homo

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Dragons are well known as mountain creatures, so it is unlikely homos would have encountered them until well after leaving the coast. That said, it could be possible that the dragons actually headed to the coast in search of easy prey.

Dragons are mountainous only in European lore. In Asian mythologies, dragons were typically river spirits.

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Dragons are mountainous only in European lore. In Asian mythologies, dragons were typically river spirits.

very true

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That is because in Asia dragons are actually crocodiles, whereas in Europe, dragons are actually dragons.

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Dragons are mountainous only in European lore. In Asian mythologies, dragons were typically river spirits.

I was under the impression that Asian dragons inhabited all realms; water, the clouds, mountains and so forth.

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I was under the impression that Asian dragons inhabited all realms; water, the clouds, mountains and so forth.

Depends on mythology. Japans dragons tend to be river spirits, or vice versa. Chinese dragons I believe inhabite multiple realms.

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Depends on mythology. Japans dragons tend to be river spirits, or vice versa. Chinese dragons I believe inhabite multiple realms.

Ah..ok. That's right. I have a superficial book on dragon mythology and now I recall it was mainly the Chinese dragons that lived nearly everywhere.

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That is because in Asia dragons are actually crocodiles, whereas in Europe, dragons are actually dragons.

Oh I see.

No wait, I don't.

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That is because in Asia dragons are actually crocodiles, whereas in Europe, dragons are actually dragons.

And bigfoot is actually a hyrax.
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I have never really had much objection with the aquatic ape theory (AAT) in general and in recent years it has been advanced considerably. The basic premise is that going back a few million years, probably as a result of ice age dynamics, early homo species exploded out of waterways, estuaries, mangrove habitats and some coastal areas resulting in possibly early bipedalism, lack of 'fur' and a host of other aquatic adaptions unique to humans amongst the primates.

As Ice Ages created large swampy, marine wetland and inundated habitats, early homo was faced with a huge opportunity for procuring rich sources of food. Later homo started exploring Savanahs and more inland areas.

If were to assume this is true, many of our old myths of the serpent and even dragons could come from the dangerous animals homo would have encountered, feared and tried to avoid/respect in these types of environments.

I'd like to open a (speculative perhaps) discussion on this subject. That the myths of the serpent and dragon go back much further than previously thought and are ingrained into our conscious and story telling from the earliest days of aquatic exploration where snakes and crocodiles are common. Thoughts?

Eh, pretty sure that snakes are more abundant on land, not sea.

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it depends where you live in the world..

but I always thought crocodiles are descendants of dinosaurs

and dragons where sea monsters from the oriental prospective

and komodo dragon is some sort of modern day lizard tyrant

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Dragons have attributes of fish, reptiles and birds. Fire breathing probably has something to do with lava....

Snakes would have been probably the first life form as they are most easily manifested, simple structure and design and could have come both from mountains and l as lakes rivers etc... obviously crocodiles love water. Dragons seem like advanced crocodiles, perhaps first a tadpole like snakish thing, a seahorse type thing, a small crocodile, a large crocodile

Fish turned into birds

Crocodiles turned into dragons

Or dragons turned into crocodiles

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Komodo dragon it is said to eat people and have some sort of lethal bacteria that feels like a burning substance. I guess this is where the fire breathing stories come from, from giant lizards ie Komodo.

The serpernts are the giant oar fish

If you go back to some expressions firey attitude means angry or viscious, Komodo could fit the bill in all respects and the myth grew to fire breathing and taken literally in later generations. I've seen Komotos and I believe you are right because I saw some paintings in a museum of man fighting a dragon that looked just like a Komoto to me. I wonder if some of the flying dragons were actually pteradactyls. Ancestral memory or some fossils found and the story tellers imagination?

Most myths refer to dragons in relevance to magic or astral powers aka fire. Like serpents can also refer to vortexs not actual creatures, the powers of magnetism between planets and star interactions, comets, or even a galaxies shaped like a serpent. Symbolic descriptions using both of these creatures have to be read in context to the myth, most tales of them are allegories to describe characteristics of something else. Still for someone to use a creature as a symbol that means people were familiar with the creatures described .

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