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Ben Masada

Things God Did Not Create

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The Universe has no meaning.We are a product of the Universe in that we evolved to give meaning to things.

Theists offer a fantasy land that cannot be proven, except in their own minds.

Nonbelief only offers reality.I think everyone needs a dose of reality by living for a week how people lived 2,000 years ago for starters.

If non-belief offers reality, please, share with me the reality that the universe caused itself to exist because there was nothing that preceded it to do that job. Let me give you the benefit of the doubt.

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IMO, I think there is truth to the bible whether it's Hebrew, Christian or Muslim. They all are spinoffs from each other.

But these doctrines (over time) have been embellished, rewritten and manipulated to suit mans views in a tribal sense.

It's a far cry from the original. Take gossip for example. You tell 1 person about something you witness and by the time

it gets spread around the story grows taller.

On the other hand, leave the Bible, the NT and the Koran aside and use Physics to demonstrate to me how the universe caused

itself to exist.

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My religion has a lot of the addictive things to it, such as beautiful music and rituals, and (usually -- sometimes they are an assault on the landscape) buildings, and a long tradition, and strong ethical principles, but it doesn't have a god (that part is optional).

I could go for that type of religion

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If non-belief offers reality, please, share with me the reality that the universe caused itself to exist because there was nothing that preceded it to do that job. Let me give you the benefit of the doubt.

Do we really have to go through all this again?
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Well, if this is a misconception to you, your opinion of his views could also be a misconception. He never said that he was only

kidding. He did declare though: "I could never be an atheist" when asked if he was one.

The evidence is on paper.

http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2012/8/15/albert-einstein-s-historic-1954-god-letter-handwritten-shortly-before-his-death

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Yes, definitely, you are joking.

It's a joke that in your mind you proved God when you have not.

Where is your Nobel peace prize?

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If non-belief offers reality, please, share with me the reality that the universe caused itself to exist because there was nothing that preceded it to do that job. Let me give you the benefit of the doubt.

If nothing was around to cause the Universe to exist?Then there was no magic sky daddy around either.The imaginary friend you worship is from the same groups of people that buried Babies in the foundations of dwellings to appease the wind from knocking it down.

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If non-belief offers reality, please, share with me the reality that the universe caused itself to exist because there was nothing that preceded it to do that job. Let me give you the benefit of the doubt.

Sheesh how tiresome that issue is. I haven't read the other responses yet and I'm sure this got attacked already, but let me just point out that causation is an empirical, not a logical, conclusion we make about the world. If you don't understand what that means you are out of your depth and relying on flawed and uninformed thinking.
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How can a fictional character create anything???

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How can a fictional character create anything???

You exist, so God must be real....DERP! DERP! DERP!

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On the other hand, leave the Bible, the NT and the Koran aside and use Physics to demonstrate to me how the universe caused

itself to exist.

For a species that barely made it to the moon but is incapable of manned interstellar travel, there is only theory how the universe exist.

The Big Bang Theory maybe more an excepted theory by scientist then other proposed theories but there's no 100% certainty.

That's why THEORY is attached to it. But it looks good on paper.

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In science, with the exception of mathematics, there is never 100% certainty. But when several scientific specialties come to the same conclusions from different directions there are some pretty confident conclusions

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How can a fictional character create anything???

But of course that is the point. How do you personally KNOW (rather than believe) that god is a fictional rather than real character? Where are your empirical evidences, by which you can prove to me the non existence of god?

And in a separate issue, fictional characters create many things via the belief of humans in them. Stonehenge, the pyramids, paintings, music etc. are created by humans because of their belief in one form of god or another. Without the existence of those gods in human minds, many things would never be created; so it is the construct of the gods which causes them to exist.

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For a species that barely made it to the moon but is incapable of manned interstellar travel, there is only theory how the universe exist.

The Big Bang Theory maybe more an excepted theory by scientist then other proposed theories but there's no 100% certainty.

That's why THEORY is attached to it. But it looks good on paper.

Man is quite capable of interstellar travel using a couple of methods. We just require sufficient motivation, and a little more technology to make such travel statistically more likely to succeed without an unacceptable risk of loss of life.. Europeans (ignoring the earlier viking voyages) had the capability of sailing to the Americas for a long time before they actually did so, to use one historical example.

I do take your point that there is still a lot for humans to learn about the universe.

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But of course that is the point. How do you personally KNOW (rather than believe) that god is a fictional rather than real character? Where are your empirical evidences, by which you can prove to me the non existence of god?

And in a separate issue, fictional characters create many things via the belief of humans in them. Stonehenge, the pyramids, paintings, music etc. are created by humans because of their belief in one form of god or another. Without the existence of those gods in human minds, many things would never be created; so it is the construct of the gods which causes them to exist.

Where is your empirical evidence that Mermaids do not exist?

Inspiration from belief is not evidence for the belief to be real.

What is your diet A-Z, even the source of liquids you take in?

It's for personal research.

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Do we really have to go through all this again?

At least until I get an answer to my question that makes sense to me.

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It's a joke that in your mind you proved God when you have not.

Where is your Nobel peace prize?

If I have not proved God with the Logic that matter cannot cause itself to exist, all you have to do is to prove that it can.

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If nothing was around to cause the Universe to exist?Then there was no magic sky daddy around either.The imaginary friend you worship is from the same groups of people that buried Babies in the foundations of dwellings to appease the wind from knocking it down.

That's not how an assertion is built: Hypothetically. Tell me according to Physics how some thing can cause itself to exist.

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Sheesh how tiresome that issue is. I haven't read the other responses yet and I'm sure this got attacked already, but let me just point out that causation is an empirical, not a logical, conclusion we make about the world. If you don't understand what that means you are out of your depth and relying on flawed and uninformed thinking.

There is nothing you can say that will diminish the nature of Logic. I am asking a logical question and I need a logical answer

if you have one.

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For a species that barely made it to the moon but is incapable of manned interstellar travel, there is only theory how the universe exist.

The Big Bang Theory maybe more an excepted theory by scientist then other proposed theories but there's no 100% certainty.

That's why THEORY is attached to it. But it looks good on paper.

All right, theories are propositions akin to guesses. The universe exists and the Cosmologists guess that it began with the big

big bang. If it began, it was caused to begin. Who or what did that job? If you don't know, how about appealing to the concept of

probability that the Primal Cause has become obvious?

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In science, with the exception of mathematics, there is never 100% certainty. But when several scientific specialties come to the same conclusions from different directions there are some pretty confident conclusions

More than several scientists have come to the conclusion that with the big bang the universe began. This was corroborated in 1922.

The Bible has been saying so for thousands of years. Never mind that our scientists never acknowledge that info. The point is

that if the universe had a beginning, some thing must have cause it to begin because nothing begins itself to exist.

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Where is your empirical evidence that Mermaids do not exist?

Inspiration from belief is not evidence for the belief to be real.

What is your diet A-Z, even the source of liquids you take in?

It's for personal research.

I do not know if mermaids exist or not. Historically manatee or sea cows were seen by sailors as mermaids.

I can trace the historical fictional construction of mermaids in literature, but I cannot KNOW they do not exist (or did not once exist). On the other hand, I can know they exist, if I ever encounter one.

I have encountered 'god' in many manifestations many times, hence I know it exists. So I also know that no one can prove that "god' does not exist. (although they might correctly debate that title for this being)

But this was not my point. How can a writer claim to KNOW that god does not exist, and hence that all deists are delusional or simply wrong? They cannot. There is no evidence that god does not exist and much evidence that it does.The best they can have is a very strong belief in this proposition.

Ancient astronaut made an assumption based on belief not knowledge ie that god is fictional and thus cannot create physical things I would like him to explain how he claims knowledge that god is fictional, or admit that this is a belief (and I accept, quite a legitimate and logical belief) but not knowledge.

I don't get your last two comments or their relevance.

Edited by Mr Walker

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If I have not proved God with the Logic that matter cannot cause itself to exist, all you have to do is to prove that it can.

Since there is evidence that matter exists but none that God exists, I would say this implies matter needed no creator. Ball's back in your court
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I do not know if mermaids exist or not. Historically manatee or sea cows were seen by sailors as mermaids.

I can trace the historical fictional construction of mermaids in literature, but I cannot KNOW they do not exist (or did not once exist). On the other hand, I can know they exist, if I ever encounter one.

I have encountered 'god' in many manifestations many times, hence I know it exists. So I also know that no one can prove that "god' does not exist. (although they might correctly debate that title for this being)

But this was not my point. How can a writer claim to KNOW that god does not exist, and hence that all deists are delusional or simply wrong? They cannot. There is no evidence that god does not exist and much evidence that it does.The best they can have is a very strong belief in this proposition.

Ancient astronaut made an assumption based on belief not knowledge ie that god is fictional and thus cannot create physical things I would like him to explain how he claims knowledge that god is fictional, or admit that this is a belief (and I accept, quite a legitimate and logical belief) but not knowledge.

I don't get your last two comments or their relevance.

Just as a Sea Cow turns into a Mermaid, so has emotion turns into a God.

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If I have not proved God with the Logic that matter cannot cause itself to exist, all you have to do is to prove that it can.

Scientists are working on it, and God is an ever shrinking concept.

You keep echoing "cause" as if it's a slam dunk, but you are just holding onto a logical fallacy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

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