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Still Waters

Anger over winning Twin Towers costumes

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A nightclub has come under criticism by giving top prize in a Halloween fancy dress contest to two women dressed as the blazing Twin Towers.

Their outfits - marked North Tower and South Tower - included models of the two hijacked planes crashing into the New York skyscrapers.

http://www.telegraph...me-contest.html

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I liked the fathers comments... "We will be having a little chat..."

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Completely distasteful and ignorant on both the club and costume wearers parts. :td:

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Oh come on! It was a pretty good idea, they certainly would have stood out. I would class it as art so IMO it's a justifiable expression of two individuals take on the twin towers on 9/11. They were just little kids when it happened so will mean less to them, the same as things that effected my parents and grandparents mean a bit less to me cos I was too young to really understand what it was all about. Take the Falklands war for instance, the only thing I knew about it was that some large war ships got damaged and there were jets shooting each other and some poor guy had his skin and face burnt off, who my younger brother called 'bum face'. I thought it was cool because of the footage of jets fighters and stuff. But for grown-ups at the time it would have been a lot more serious.

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They were just little kids when it happened so will mean less to them, the same as things that effected my parents and grandparents mean a bit less to me cos I was too young to really understand what it was all about.

Well then it sounds like the one girl's father should have had that 'little chat' he talked about in the article with his daughter a bit earlier then.

I wasn't even a twinkle in my father's eye when JFK was shot. However, because of what my parents taught me, I grew up knowing in my heart and mind; that was a very devastating moment for America. I have always felt a sense of sadness and respect for something that happened before my lifetime.

Maybe it's because I'm an American that makes me a bit more sensitive to anyone poking fun at the World Trade Center terrorists attacks, or maybe I just know the difference between right and wrong. There is no excuse for those girls and that club for being so disrespectful.

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For me, you have to look at intent, and I don't see any intent to mock anyone with this costume. It was a halloween costume contest which in their own words ""The idea was to depict a modern-day horror that happened in our lifetime and was not intended as a joke."....that's good enough for me. I'm sure they'll pay for it anyway, there's probably fb pages or twitter accounts already dedicated to ripping them to pieces and making threats etc *sigh*

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For me, you have to look at intent, and I don't see any intent to mock anyone with this costume. It was a halloween costume contest which in their own words ""The idea was to depict a modern-day horror that happened in our lifetime and was not intended as a joke."....that's good enough for me. I'm sure they'll pay for it anyway, there's probably fb pages or twitter accounts already dedicated to ripping them to pieces and making threats etc *sigh*

I can't imagine what the DJ was thinking (or not thinking) when they came up with the costume contest. I'm not as appalled by their costume because of the contest however, that being said the whole thing was in bad taste. A night club isn't an art school soiree and raucous behavior and bawdy attitudes are more the norm then sedate and .scholarly debates about the tragedies and how it has affected the psyche of a generation.

Mabon.

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I can't imagine what the DJ was thinking (or not thinking) when they came up with the costume contest. I'm not as appalled by their costume because of the contest however, that being said the whole thing was in bad taste. A night club isn't an art school soiree and raucous behavior and bawdy attitudes are more the norm then sedate and .scholarly debates about the tragedies and how it has affected the psyche of a generation.

Mabon.

Hmm, I can see your point but isn't intended to spark debate, it is just a costume party, people out having a good time. They held a halloween party in the club near me recently, there was all kinds of weird and wonderful costumes, most of them were pretty impressive and a lot of work had clearly gone into them.

They didn't go dressed that way to offend, so that's fine with me. I don't see any moral angle either, other then timescale (an event we all witnessed on live tv)...because if it's an issue of taste then there's no justification for celebrating the gruesome death (hung, drawn and quartered) and an English figure only a week after halloween.

It was just a party, and a contest, I think it's being blown out of proportion.

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""The idea was to depict a modern-day horror that happened in our lifetime and was not intended as a joke."....that's good enough for me.

The looks on their faces in that article photo doesn't look like they are depicting a modern-day horror. It looks like they are having fun and completely disrespecting and mocking an American / World tragedy.

I was a grown adult when that attack took place, I can remember standing in front of the TV at work crying my eyes out watching all that take place live.

Maybe if the taliban had flown a plane into The Shard or Tower 42, killing thousands in your country, you may understand a bit better where I am coming from.

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Seemed like a fun idea. I don't see what's so bad about their costumes to get offended over. But then I don't think people need to take Halloween costumes that seriously anyway, too many things are "taboo" for some reason.

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The looks on their faces in that article photo doesn't look like they are depicting a modern-day horror. It looks like they are having fun and completely disrespecting and mocking an American / World tragedy.

I was a grown adult when that attack took place, I can remember standing in front of the TV at work crying my eyes out watching all that take place live.

Maybe if the taliban had flown a plane into The Shard or Tower 42, killing thousands in your country, you may understand a bit better where I am coming from.

Maybe you need to back-up and slow down a bit! I never said I don't understand how others might feel, I made no mention of anything of the sort, and I haven't criticised anyone else view on it. I stated my own, in which I don't find it offensive, or mocking anyone, and I don't believe they did mean to either. Do you have a problem with my view then? should I be offended by something because you are then?

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Maybe you need to back-up and slow down a bit! I never said I don't understand how others might feel, I made no mention of anything of the sort, and I haven't criticised anyone else view on it. I stated my own, in which I don't find it offensive, or mocking anyone, and I don't believe they did mean to either. Do you have a problem with my view then? should I be offended by something because you are then?

I do understand what you are getting at. I just don't understand how you don't find it offensive 'just because the girls said they meant no harm' by it. Do you really believe them? Don't you think they were compeletely ingorant about thinking that wouldn't offend people? They look like your typical attention seeking whores in that picture.

If you don't think that costume is offensive then why don't you put one on and walk around the Lower Manhattan business district one morning and then see what happens.

Edited by BiffSplitkins

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I do understand what you are getting at. I just don't understand how you don't find it offensive 'just because the girls said they meant no harm' by it.

I don't find it offensive because I judge offence by the intent behind it. I see no intent behind this to be offensive. Had they worn it in lower Manhatten (as you suggest I do) and say, on a 9/11 anniversary, then that is clearly an intent to offend people. However, this was two girls, at a party on the one night of the year that celebrates everything that is ghoulish and murderous, in a country that is no where near the events that happened. So i'm not offended because there was no intent to offend.

If I did judge things I find offensive on the grounds you suggest, i'd be offended daily, and by just about everyone I see. I choose not to live like that.

Do you really believe them?

I have no reason not to.

Don't you think they were compeletely ingorant about thinking that wouldn't offend people?

Naive, maybe. Naivety doesn't offend me though.

They look like your typical attention seeking whores in that picture.

When the article first broke the comments on other sites were "cheap hookers", "chavs" etc....then it was revealed they were at uni etc...then the comments went to "posh idiots", "rich little *******" etc........don't you just love the great pre-judging public.....

If you don't think that costume is offensive then why don't you put one on and walk around the Lower Manhattan business district one morning and then see what happens.

Because that would be intentionally offensive.

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It's kind of weird and disturbing. The joke was not that funny and leaves you wondering if the individuals are disturbed in some way.

Also, more than 100 British citizens died on 9/11.

Can you imagine if Americans did a parody of the Dunblane Scotland massacre? That's even further back in time than 9/11.

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Can you imagine if Americans did a parody of the Dunblane Scotland massacre? That's even further back in time than 9/11.

Nothing would happen, I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid over it....depending on the context obviously, if it was re enacted under the banner of "mocking people who are randomly shot by a nutter" then you might get a bit of backlash, if it was part of an event like when they do battle re-enactments, or something to do with human tragedies then hardly anyone would care......just like this really, a fancy dress party on halloween, it's not exactly picketing a memorial service dressed like that is it..

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I've got to admit, I personally don't find it offensive in this context either.

It's similar to when Prince Harry was snapped having worn a Nazi costume at a birthday party. Sure, the newspapers were offended, but everyone else just looked at it and laughed at him for letting himself get snapped in the get-up; we all knew that he wasn't in any way supporting the Nazi ideal or mocking those who suffered during the Holocaust or World War 2.

Just as I'm quite sure that if a person was to go to a party in America as, say, zombie Princess Diana, most wouldn't bat an eyelid. The newspapers would get worked up about it, but a large percentage of the population would either (depending on the quality of the costume) compliment their resemblance to Princess Di or else laugh at how badly it was put together.

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Hmm, I can see your point but isn't intended to spark debate, it is just a costume party, people out having a good time. They held a halloween party in the club near me recently, there was all kinds of weird and wonderful costumes, most of them were pretty impressive and a lot of work had clearly gone into them.

They didn't go dressed that way to offend, so that's fine with me. I don't see any moral angle either, other then timescale (an event we all witnessed on live tv)...because if it's an issue of taste then there's no justification for celebrating the gruesome death (hung, drawn and quartered) and an English figure only a week after halloween.

It was just a party, and a contest, I think it's being blown out of proportion.

I know that a lot of people don't understand how it affected life in the US, anymore than most Americans can fully appreciate the blitzes during WW2. The second part of the underscored part is the problem no one thought about how they were dressing up the events were trivialized and used as a macabre backdrop for people to have a good time.

I think it's really sad and shows lack of respect for real tragedies and how a lot of people aren't concerned with anything but having a good time.

Mabon.

Edited to add. I would be offended at a zombie Dianna. I watched the day she got married and then had her children and the day she was killed in the car accident. It would be in very poor taste.

Edited by Mabon
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I know that a lot of people don't understand how it affected life in the US, anymore than most Americans can fully appreciate the blitzes during WW2. The second part of the underscored part is the problem no one thought about how they were dressing up the events were trivialized and used as a macabre backdrop for people to have a good time.

I think it's really sad and shows lack of respect for real tragedies and how a lot of people aren't concerned with anything but having a good time.

Mabon.

Edited to add. I would be offended at a zombie Dianna. I watched the day she got married and then had her children and the day she was killed in the car accident. It would be in very poor taste.

I do understand the thinking behind what you say - I just choose to not follow that route. The reason being as I would find it in poor taste to pick and chose what offends me in terms of global events, based on locality or shared history. The dropping of an atomic bomb and the lose of countless souls offends me as a human being, nothing more, nothing to do with my colour, beliefs, history, or location on the planet, but as human being. If I was to be offended by this then I would feel hypocritical for not being offended by battle re-enactments (which are nothing more then grown up dressing up, painting themselves in blood and rolling around the floor pretending to be dead)...or offended by the lack of respect shown for the countless innocents killed in defence of our very own nation.

I can't pick and chose a moral code when it comes to was is offensive and not so offensive when it comes to the murder of people.....if the act is offensive, it's offensive world wide.....if dressing up as an event where innocents died is offensive, then all events that either celebrate (or fail to recognise) said murders (globally) are too, and seeing as that is impractical then I judge these events by the intent behind them. They were two young girls, at a fancy dress party, nothing more....so their actions do not offend me.

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I would be offended at a zombie Dianna. I watched the day she got married and then had her children and the day she was killed in the car accident. It would be in very poor taste.

That's why I said most. I'll admit there are people whose sensibilities won't stand for such creations, and that is perfectly fine and acceptable.

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Sky Scanner, it has been a pleasure talking with you. I do respect your opinion even if I can't fully embrace it.

Peace.

That's why I said most. I'll admit there are people whose sensibilities won't stand for such creations, and that is perfectly fine and acceptable.

I stated this because the day she got married my Mom rolled me out of bed early to see a real life fairy tale princess get married and history being made, I think at the time it was the most watched news program of the decade. Mostly it was to point out that what happens in your neck of the woods can/does affect us over here and the other way round. Dead cheerleader or football player is one thing it's generic picking a target that has a name or an identity (like the symbol of the TT) feels personal and therefore painful.

Mabon.

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You too Mabon :)

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I stated this because the day she got married my Mom rolled me out of bed early to see a real life fairy tale princess get married and history being made, I think at the time it was the most watched news program of the decade. Mostly it was to point out that what happens in your neck of the woods can/does affect us over here and the other way round. Dead cheerleader or football player is one thing it's generic picking a target that has a name or an identity (like the symbol of the TT) feels personal and therefore painful.

Mabon, I respect your opinion, and I am sad that I can't share it. I would like to be able to relate to such things, regardless of border or time. The fact that you do is I feel a very special gift.

I still believe that a wider percentage of the population feels my way; however, I do actually hope that I am incorrect.

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Well then it sounds like the one girl's father should have had that 'little chat' he talked about in the article with his daughter a bit earlier then.

I wasn't even a twinkle in my father's eye when JFK was shot. However, because of what my parents taught me, I grew up knowing in my heart and mind; that was a very devastating moment for America. I have always felt a sense of sadness and respect for something that happened before my lifetime.

Maybe it's because I'm an American that makes me a bit more sensitive to anyone poking fun at the World Trade Center terrorists attacks, or maybe I just know the difference between right and wrong. There is no excuse for those girls and that club for being so disrespectful.

Kind of like the reaction you'd get at a party wearing a tee with a print of Princess Di in the wreckage of the car. Just beyond belief disgusting and heartless.
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Well then it sounds like the one girl's father should have had that 'little chat' he talked about in the article with his daughter a bit earlier then.

I wasn't even a twinkle in my father's eye when JFK was shot. However, because of what my parents taught me, I grew up knowing in my heart and mind; that was a very devastating moment for America. I have always felt a sense of sadness and respect for something that happened before my lifetime.

Maybe it's because I'm an American that makes me a bit more sensitive to anyone poking fun at the World Trade Center terrorists attacks, or maybe I just know the difference between right and wrong. There is no excuse for those girls and that club for being so disrespectful.

I have to agree with you on this Biff....My 8 year old daughter knows pretty much enough about the 9/11 tragedy even though it was before her time, and she found it very sad...I know for a fact she wouldn't have the nerve to do anything so effing stupid like this...Every time I ask her what she wants to dress up as for a fancy dress or to go out trick or treating, she leans on the usual costumes that other kids wear. I doubt many kids with sense would do anything this insensitive and dumb...Best thing about this is, the girls dressed up as the towers are a lot older than my kid...

Because I have met much younger kids with more sense come fancy dress, I see no good reason to sit and make up excuses for these to older girls... I do not have to be an American to see how dumb, insensitive and stupid this stunt was...

I read in the same article, they tried to justify their dumb act by saying that some went dressed as Jimmy Saville etc..yea like that makes it OK doesnt it? ...FAIL !!!

I can never understand how anyone can try and justify sad acts like this...!!

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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I agree with Biff, and Beckysmom if i wore a shirt with 7/7 bombing on it, i would be called a traitor and get beaten up or whatever.

If those girls went to a redneck area..well they wont even last an hour.

If it was an owner of a club or pub, i ban them or make them change, you're disrespecting innocent people and the world.

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