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Brian Topp

If You Believe in Ghosts, You'll See a Ghost

34 posts in this topic

Probably goes without saying. My wife believes in spirits and angels and sees them all the time. I don't see any of the phenomenon she witnesses, despite being in the same room.

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Does that work with large stacks of gold coins or winning lottery tickets?

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That's not the case for me at any rate.

I do accept the possiblity that the ghost phenomenon is legitimate and I've never had any such experience in my life.

Edited by sam_comm
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That's not the case for me at any rate.

I do accept the possiblity that the ghost phenomenon is legitimate and I've never had any such experience in my life.

Accepting it is one thing. How you value the best evidence is what tells the tale.

Edited by sinewave

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I would have to agree with sinewave on this one. There is a difference between accepting and believing.

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I do not 'believe' nor do I 'disbelieve' in ghost. I accept that there is a real possiblity that it does exist.

Accepting or believing, even if these point of view are different interpretations, does not necesserely mean a person will goes for wishful thinking and seeing what they accept or believe.

That seems to me like a fallacious argument. Believing or to subscibe to a particular belief system does mean you have to see or hear what you think exist somehow and somewhere. It is based on a faith. I know plenty of people who believe in god, angels, demons and they never saw anything of the kind in their entire life. They probably never will in their life time but simply believe that it can be real.

I think it has more to do with the personality of the person who hold the particular beliefs. Some are more prone to this kind of behavior. But that is far from been the case of everyone.

Edited by sam_comm

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I do not 'believe' nor do I 'disbelieve' in ghost. I accept that there is a real possiblity that it does exist.

Accepting or believing, even if these point of view are different interpretations, does not necesserely mean a person will goes for wishful thinking and seeing what they accept or believe.

That seems to me like a fallacious argument. Believing or to subscibe to a particular belief system does mean you have to see or hear what you think exist somehow and somewhere. It is based on a faith. I know plenty of people who believe in god, angels, demons and they never saw anything of the kind in their entire life. They probably never will in their life time but simply believe that it can be real.

I think it has more to do with the personality of the person who hold the particular beliefs. Some are more prone to this kind of behavior. But that is far from been the case of everyone.

Accepting, in this case means accepting the hypothesis as valid. i.e not dismissing it out of hand. However, that is not the same as accepting it as fact. That level of acceptance requires evidence which has yet to materialize. No pun intended.

Belief can (not will) make the objects of belif real in the mind of the believer. There is no question about that. That is very different from being physically real. To date, the best evidence puts ghosts squarely in the domain of imagination.

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Let me put this another way. My wife has a blow up of a Polaroid photo of the sun near sunset. There is a square lens flair just above the sun. She is convinced it is the doorway to heaven. I just see an artifact of light within the lens aperture.

Perception, experience and belief colors one's view of reality. If this were not so, then there would be no need for forums like this one. Everyone would look at the same photo and come to the same conclusion.

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There have been many non believers that changed their minds because they did see a ghost.

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I strongly believe in ghosts. Ever since I was younger, I just have this gut feeling that they exist. My gut feeling could be wrong, but for me this feeling has never went away. Believe everyone has different opinions on the matter. I've always wanted to see a ghost however, never seen any ghosts yet but I believe I've heard ghosts once before when I was staying at my friend's house.

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Let me put this another way. My wife has a blow up of a Polaroid photo of the sun near sunset. There is a square lens flair just above the sun. She is convinced it is the doorway to heaven. I just see an artifact of light within the lens aperture.

Perception, experience and belief colors one's view of reality. If this were not so, then there would be no need for forums like this one. Everyone would look at the same photo and come to the same conclusion.

A belief is not neceserely at odd with rational thinking. One may believe in the existence of ghosts and look at a picture critically and find a rational explanation to it that has nothing to do with ghosts. He doesn't have to disbelieve but rather to use a critical jugement that consider various aspects before concluding. I think it has a lot more to do with the judgement of a person rather than the belief itself. I may have reasons to believe in something it doesn't mean I have to forsake all other explanations and let my imagination run loose.

Therefore the title of this thread is misleading, one may believe and not see. That's an act of faith and not necesserely an act of imagination.

Edited by sam_comm

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There's countless experiences where folks who were literally stubborn as a block of cement have seen something they would classify as a classic ghost sighting. The more intriguing proposition is WHAT INITIATES THE ACTIVITY? Obviously you can have people embellishing or convincing themselves that they witness something 'paranormal' whether it be audio, fragmentary of full apparition. Could've been a reflection, could've been sleep paralysis, could have been creaking floorboards, orbs are just dust in a lot of cases etc etc That cannot explain every single ghost experience however. Something, some bizarre process, must initiate the 'ghost'. Unless the universe has a sense of humour and launches random spirits upon the unsuspecting, expecting or unrelenting at will :alien:

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There's countless experiences where folks who were literally stubborn as a block of cement have seen something they would classify as a classic ghost sighting. The more intriguing proposition is WHAT INITIATES THE ACTIVITY? Obviously you can have people embellishing or convincing themselves that they witness something 'paranormal' whether it be audio, fragmentary of full apparition. Could've been a reflection, could've been sleep paralysis, could have been creaking floorboards, orbs are just dust in a lot of cases etc etc That cannot explain every single ghost experience however. Something, some bizarre process, must initiate the 'ghost'. Unless the universe has a sense of humour and launches random spirits upon the unsuspecting, expecting or unrelenting at will :alien:

There are just as many, if not more people who experienced something strange then figured out what it really was. You are talking about stories and perception, not facts.

Edited by sinewave
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There have been many non believers that changed their minds because they did see a ghost.

No doubt there have been at least a few. So what?

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There's countless experiences where folks who were literally stubborn as a block of cement have seen something they would classify as a classic ghost sighting. The more intriguing proposition is WHAT INITIATES THE ACTIVITY? Obviously you can have people embellishing or convincing themselves that they witness something 'paranormal' whether it be audio, fragmentary of full apparition. Could've been a reflection, could've been sleep paralysis, could have been creaking floorboards, orbs are just dust in a lot of cases etc etc That cannot explain every single ghost experience however. Something, some bizarre process, must initiate the 'ghost'.

I don't see why it can't "explain" every single ghost experience. People differ and unfortunately that means some people are easily persuaded of all sorts of stuff.
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I used to believe in ghosts, never saw one. I'm now more skeptical.

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There have been many non believers that changed their minds because they did see a ghost.

But that does not make the phenomenon any more real.

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Well, there is a correlation between belief in the paranormal and mental disorders, so...

The paranormal is a time bomb for an unstable person, that is clear. The fact that the paranormal constitute of a jumble of theories, interpretations, beliefs can draw people suffering frorm mental disorders which can lead one to mesinterpretations and distortion of reality.

Edited by sam_comm
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There have been many non believers that changed their minds because they did see a ghost.

True enough in the sense that people have experiences that cause them to become a believer in something.

You can find testimony of people who have been visited by angels, abducted by aliens, felt Jesus enter their heart, been healed by prayer or homeopathy, were visited by the Virgin Mary, had Allah appear to them in a vision, etc.

Experiences that make people into true believers in all sorts of odd things are a dime a dozen.

Edited by JesseCuster
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The paranormal is a time bomb for an unstable person, that is clear. The fact that the paranormal constitute of a jumble of theories, interpretations, beliefs can draw people suffering frorm mental disorders which can lead one to mesinterpretations and distortion of reality.

That is exactly right. Your assessment of paranormal study is very accurate. The practice of trying to rationalize it is rather disorganized.

As for mental illness, yes, that is quite true. There are certainly other mundane factors to consider including normal flaws in perception. Everybody perceives things incorrectly and does so quite regularly.

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I didn't believe in ghosts until I experienced something unusual that I couldn't explain, now i am more open to the idea.

It was rather like an atheist having a religious experience.

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A belief is not neceserely at odd with rational thinking.

Yah, this is my stance.

I believe in ghosts, but I would never, to use an example in the thread here, believe lens flare was the doorway to Heaven or some such.

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I didn't believe in ghosts until I experienced something unusual that I couldn't explain, now i am more open to the idea.

It was rather like an atheist having a religious experience.

You gotta do what you gotta do and I respect that but just because you could not explain it does not mean it could not be explained in mundane terms.

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