Why Obamacare Isn’t Losing Popularity

[andy4]

It is happening Andy. I'm sorry you can't see it. I truly am. It requires a bit of being able to see around the curve...but it is already happening. The mere fact that for the first time in history...the Government is forcing every citizen to buy a particular product.

But besides that...let's look at what is happening right now. Millions of people are having their insurance policies cancelled and replaced with policies that have a higher premium AND a much higher deductible. Meanwhile...the poor and needy are still being treated...as they always have...

It's just a huge mess...I mean seriously, name one thing that the government does well...one thing. And now you want them to be in charge of something as serious and as personal as YOUR illness and who you want to treat it? It's crazy. It's illogical...and it is very, very disturbing. That's just not the way things are supposed to be in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

But it something is broken, you fix it, do you not? That was the whole point of implementing the ACA in the first place, because there was rampant inequality and corruption from within the healthcare system. Other governments around the world have healthcare available for regular citizens, and they aren't descending into communism or any decay of the function of their respective countries. They're all getting along as well as or better than we are over here. And come on, no freedom of yours is truly being taken away. It's just a change that some will take time to get used to.

[+joc]

But it something is broken, you fix it, do you not? That was the whole point of implementing the ACA in the first place, because there was rampant inequality and corruption from within the healthcare system. Other governments around the world have healthcare available for regular citizens, and they aren't descending into communism or any decay of the function of their respective countries. They're all getting along as well as or better than we are over here. And come on, no freedom of yours is truly being taken away. It's just a change that some will take time to get used to.

Well, you are carrying on here with a couple of premises that are false. First is that the Health care system in the United States is broken...it is now...but it wasn't 'broken' before Obama broke it. You are losing sight of the fact that America has the greatest health care system in the world. The key words here are Health and Care. Are there problems? Yes. The problems are that without Insurance quality health care is pretty much unaffordable...but how did it get that way? It got that way through Government regulation and manipulation. And the massive corruption within the Health care industry in the USA isn't about the Insurance Companys, it is akin to fraud within the context of Medicare and Medicaid.

So if you need, really need a doctor, and you are poor...we already have Medicaid...why force millions of Americans who don't want Insurance to buy Insurance? How can you not see that you have lost Freedom there Andy?

[Beany]

Well, you are carrying on here with a couple of premises that are false. First is that the Health care system in the United States is broken...it is now...but it wasn't 'broken' before Obama broke it. You are losing sight of the fact that America has the greatest health care system in the world. The key words here are Health and Care. Are there problems? Yes. The problems are that without Insurance quality health care is pretty much unaffordable...but how did it get that way? It got that way through Government regulation and manipulation. And the massive corruption within the Health care industry in the USA isn't about the Insurance Companys, it is akin to fraud within the context of Medicare and Medicaid.

So if you need, really need a doctor, and you are poor...we already have Medicaid...why force millions of Americans who don't want Insurance to buy Insurance? How can you not see that you have lost Freedom there Andy?

It's not the greatest health care system in the world for people who can't afford health insurance or private pay.And it's the health care providers that are perpetrating fraud in Medicare & MediCal.

[andy4]

Well, you are carrying on here with a couple of premises that are false. First is that the Health care system in the United States is broken...it is now...but it wasn't 'broken' before Obama broke it. You are losing sight of the fact that America has the greatest health care system in the world. The key words here are Health and Care. Are there problems? Yes. The problems are that without Insurance quality health care is pretty much unaffordable...but how did it get that way? It got that way through Government regulation and manipulation. And the massive corruption within the Health care industry in the USA isn't about the Insurance Companys, it is akin to fraud within the context of Medicare and Medicaid.

So if you need, really need a doctor, and you are poor...we already have Medicaid...why force millions of Americans who don't want Insurance to buy Insurance? How can you not see that you have lost Freedom there Andy?

Yes, through government regulation, it got corrupted and that is a fair argument. But it got that way because the Republican Party made it that way, or lets say did nothing about how corrupt it actually was.

As far as Medicaid goes, I'll cover this again, as I've stated it already in another thread.

Here's an example; some people who try to get Medicaid can sometimes make too much, even though they're barely getting by. Then they look to health insurance for coverage and realize that it's too expensive, so they have nothing to cover themselves with. That's a real example which actually happens to people. The ACA makes sure that this kind of thing doesn't happen anymore.

No freedoms were lost for those people, and none have been lost by you, me, or anyone else.

[Sweetpumper]

Delaware drops $4 million to enroll 4 people in ObamaCare

http://libertyunyielding.com/2013/11/07/delaware-drops-4-million-to-enroll-4-people-in-obamacare/

[F3SS]

Yes, through government regulation, it got corrupted and that is a fair argument. But it got that way because the Republican Party made it that way, or lets say did nothing about how corrupt it actually was.

As far as Medicaid goes, I'll cover this again, as I've stated it already in another thread.

Here's an example; some people who try to get Medicaid can sometimes make too much, even though they're barely getting by. Then they look to health insurance for coverage and realize that it's too expensive, so they have nothing to cover themselves with. That's a real example which actually happens to people. The ACA makes sure that this kind of thing doesn't happen anymore.

No freedoms were lost for those people, and none have been lost by you, me, or anyone else.

Really, the Republican Party is solely to blame for a decades long erosion of what once was? Ok.

The ACA makes sure those things don't happen anymore? Ok again. Now what of those who were insured, have had their policies revoked only to try and be sold a package that cost 3 times as much in every way? What are those people supposed to do? Suck it up because they've been living as privileged middle class people who never had to worry much when they were free to choose? Sounds like reparations and spreading the wealth all in one. Don't give me the sub-standard package was no good anyway routine. That's not for you or Obama to decide not to mention that's about as weak an argument as it gets because sub-standard is undefined and entirely an opinion.

The freedoms lost was the freedom to spend my money where and how I want, buy an insurance package IF I wanted. Even though I have no intention of complying with this law of no consequence I still feel for the headaches it's causing everybody. Simply, if yesterday you were free to do what you want and today your choice is purchase or pay a fine you tell me how that is not a loss of freedom.

Edited November 12, 2013 by F3SS

[Simbi Laveau]

Still trying to figure out which part of the Affordable Care Act is, well affordable

[Sweetpumper]

1 MILLION HAVE INSURANCE CANCELLED IN CALIFORNIA

http://sacramento.cb...e-to-obamacare/

Edited November 12, 2013 by Sweetpumper

[ninjadude]

Really, who?

the uninsured

[ninjadude]

Of course I'm paying for it Andy...we all are. That's the point. We are ALREADY paying for it. So how does forcing me to buy an insurance policy I can't afford...or pay a tax penalty that I can't afford change a damn thing? That is socialism.

so who's going to pay your $50K hospital bill when you get in an accident or develop a medical condition?

[ninjadude]

The mere fact that for the first time in history...the Government is forcing every citizen to buy a particular product.

it's not. people are "forced" to buy products all the time. And it's not a particular product. you have choices.

[ninjadude]

. First is that the Health care system in the United States is broken...it is now...but it wasn't 'broken' before Obama broke it. You are losing sight of the fact that America has the greatest health care system in the world.

both of these statements are provably false. They've been shown here on UM many times.

[F3SS]

the uninsured

You really know how to close an argument.

[RavenHawk]

Was this poll taken before Obamacare started to take effect? If it was, there were some 50 million people uninsured. Now adjust this to remove illegals and you probably have about 30 million Americans. So 42% equals 12.6 million. So 12.6 million dictates what the other 300 million want? The people want their insurance, not a bait and switch. They don’t want all the bells and whistles.

[+and-then]

so who's going to pay your $50K hospital bill when you get in an accident or develop a medical condition?

The same people who pay for an illegal to receive care for the same thing. The difference is that BEFORE this train wreck many of those who are now going to be on the dole were paying their own way and now will not be able to afford to.

[acidhead]

I've always believed America has, on average, the best medical professionals in the world because they are allowed to compete for better wages. Everybody yearns for 'the reward'. We all believe we are all individually special and we are. We display it everyday.

[+and-then]

I've always believed America has, on average, the best medical professionals in the world because they are allowed to compete for better wages. Everybody yearns for 'the reward'. We all believe we are all individually special and we are. We display it everyday.

I was in traffic yesterday behind a little BMW convertible with a 30 something at the wheel. Vanity plates: IFIXR

If I met him at a party I might hate his guts for being an arrogant ass (maybe) but if my retina was detached? I'd feel like he deserved every penny when he helped me see correctly. No doubt our medical AND insurance industries are dysfunctional beyond what could be but on the whole we are providing very good care to most people. Those who aren't part of that payer system are still being cared for and those costs are being picked up - leading to part of the dysfunction. A better way of managing costs could be found that actually would be fair and if one positive thing comes from this debacle it's that at least a discussion is being engaged. Prior to this trainwreck no one would even talk about changing. NOW we've seen what absolute chaos his plan is causing and maybe smarter fixes can be found. I certainly hope so.

[+joc]

It's not the greatest health care system in the world for people who can't afford health insurance or private pay.And it's the health care providers that are perpetrating fraud in Medicare & MediCal.

Let me say it another way Beany...in America, we have access to the greatest Health Care in History. Perhaps the system for getting it needs to be changed. But taking away my freedom is not the way to go about it.

Yes, through government regulation, it got corrupted and that is a fair argument. But it got that way because the Republican Party made it that way, or lets say did nothing about how corrupt it actually was.

As far as Medicaid goes, I'll cover this again, as I've stated it already in another thread.

Here's an example; some people who try to get Medicaid can sometimes make too much, even though they're barely getting by. Then they look to health insurance for coverage and realize that it's too expensive, so they have nothing to cover themselves with. That's a real example which actually happens to people. The ACA makes sure that this kind of thing doesn't happen anymore.

No freedoms were lost for those people, and none have been lost by you, me, or anyone else.

I understand the severity of the situation Andy...I really do...I am one of those who are caught in the catch 22 you speak of...but you are dead wrong when you say that we haven't lost any Freedoms...I hope you see it before the Gulag brings it right to your front door.

it's not. people are "forced" to buy products all the time. And it's not a particular product. you have choices.

Name one thing Ninja...one thing...that I am forced to buy

[F3SS]

Name one thing Ninja...one thing...that I am forced to buy

You need to clarify that before he says car insurance. Name one thing Ninja that we are forced to buy for simply being a breathing citizen.

[F3SS]

Time to call out the op...

OFFICIAL OBAMACARE NUMBERS RELEASED—AND THEY’RE EXACTLY WHAT YOU’D EXPECT

An estimated 106,185 people signed up for Obamacare through the federal and state-run exchanges during the month of October, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius announced Wednesday.

HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius (Getty Images)

The number is well below the White House’s expectations of 500,000 for the first month.

Approximately 26,794 people enrolled in Obamacare through the error-riddled, multimillion-dollar healthcare.gov website. The remainder enrolled through the state-run exchanges.

It’s important to note that the White House’s figures include people who signed up for a plan and people who have a plan waiting in their online shopping cart, The Washington Post reported.

More... http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/11/13/sebelius-releases-official-obamacare-enrollment-numbers-and-theyre-exactly-what-youd-expect/

That whole number includes people who haven't even been provided coverage yet! Geez oh man. Where is this pique of interest the op claims? Not only will seven million people not sign up, there will be easily more than seven million plans cancelled by then. Already 5M+ have been hosed. Ninja, I know it hurts you like nothing I can imagine but I think it's about time for you to admit we've been right all along.

Edited November 13, 2013 by F3SS

[Sweetpumper]

Obamacare! All is right in the world!

[+DieChecker]

106,000 people signed up for October. TOTAL for far (27,000 on the Federal site).

http://outfront.blog...-misses-target/

MONEY WELL SPENT!!! (not)

Edited November 14, 2013 by DieChecker

[+joc]

joc, on 13 November 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

Name one thing Ninja...one thing...that I am forced to buy

You need to clarify that before he says car insurance. Name one thing Ninja that we are forced to buy for simply being a breathing citizen.

Oh way to go F3SS! Blow my cover.....

But see that is just the point...no one is forced to buy anything. IF you want to drive a car, you must have a license, you must have insurance...but no one can force you to drive a car...many people don't.

No one can force you to work. Most people do but many do not.

But NOW, by the very fact of you being a living American...your GOVERNMENT is ORDERING YOU to buy Health Insurance. They don't have that right. I don't care who says what about it...they don't...and I..yes I...little old me...if necessary, will lead an uprising revolt against it. I can...and I will. I will not buy insurance...I will not pay the fine. So there...take my house...put me in prison...shoot me if front of a firing squad...Give me Liberty or give me Death!

Just because the entire rest of the world worships the beast of Socialism/Communism...many of us will refuse. Baaaa Baaaa Ninja! Baaaaa go the sheep...

...Us wolves follow a path less traveled...we make our own way through this world...you're damn right we built it...and we will not...WILL NOT...let you and your cohorts take it away from us....go ahead punk...make my day!

[danielost]

Since I have health insurance, I don't have a dog in this fight. But those who don't have healthcare are looking like they really would like to have some insurance coverage, because some is better than none.

As of today, five million more americans are without insurance thanks to obamacare.

As I have said since the start of this five ears ago. Obamacare has only one goal, to ram universal healthcare down our throats.

[danielost]

But it something is broken, you fix it, do you not? That was the whole point of implementing the ACA in the first place, because there was rampant inequality and corruption from within the healthcare system. Other governments around the world have healthcare available for regular citizens, and they aren't descending into communism or any decay of the function of their respective countries. They're all getting along as well as or better than we are over here. And come on, no freedom of yours is truly being taken away. It's just a change that some will take time to get used to.

I take it you have missed all the news stories of greece, spain, italy, france, ireland are all going bankrupt due to their social programs. Let's not forget mediaid/care and social security also going bankrupt. Those would be the usa social rograms going bankrupt.