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Grandpa Greenman

Where did God come from?

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Where do you think God came from? If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?

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Where do you think God came from?

People's imagination.

If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?

See above ^^^^^.

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IMO God has always existed. However, my ideas about God tend to be a bit different from Judeo-Christian thinking.

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This is what happens to me when I ponder where IT ALL came from (whatever your definition of "IT" is). But I can't multitask either.

*photo of exploding head*

would not post it

Edited by QuiteContrary
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God would be the intelligence behind the underlying system. Coexisting with the eternal universe because it is the universe. Not totally unlike yourself. You have a brain, and a mind.the universe/omniverse is the brain and god is the mind. Both if which are eternal. I don't think either had a beginning only evolving. Eternal evolution is bound to create a god far back into eternity many times over.

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Carl Jung's Seven Sermons to the Dead comes closest for me in understanding "Where God Came From" so far

From Sermon 1

Harken: I begin with nothingness. Nothingness is the same as fullness. In infinity full is no better than empty. Nothingness is both empty and full. As well might ye say anything else of nothingness, as for instance, white is it, or black, or again, it is not, or it is. A thing that is infinite and eternal hath no qualities, since it hath all qualities.

This nothingness or fullness we name the PLEROMA. Therein both thinking and being cease, since the eternal and infinite possess no qualities. In it no being is, for he then would be distinct from the pleroma, and would possess qualities which would distinguish him as something distinct from the pleroma.

In the pleroma there is nothing and everything. It is quite fruitless to think about the pleroma, for this would mean self-dissolution.

CREATURA is not in the pleroma, but in itself. The pleroma is both beginning and end of created beings. It pervadeth them, as the light of the sun everywhere pervadeth the air. Although the pleroma pervadeth altogether, yet hath created being no share thereof, just as a wholly transparent body becometh neither light nor dark through the light which pervadeth it. We are, however, the pleroma itself, for we are a part of the eternal and infinite. But we have no share thereof, as we are from the pleroma infinitely removed; not spiritually or temporally, but essentially, since we are distinguished from the pleroma in our essence as creatura, which is confined within time and space.

Yet because we are parts of the pleroma, the pleroma is also in us. Even in the smallest point is the pleroma endless, eternal, and entire, since small and great are qualities which are contained in it. It is that nothingness which is everywhere whole and continuous. Only figuratively, therefore, do I speak of created being as a part of the pleroma. Because, actually, the pleroma is nowhere divided, since it is nothingness. We are also the whole pleroma, because, figuratively, the pleroma is the smallest point (assumed only, not existing) in us and the boundless firmament about us. But wherefore, then, do we speak of the pleroma at all, since it is thus everything and nothing?

http://gnosis.org/li...ons.htm#Sermo_I

Edited by libstaK
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...If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?

If the Universe can't come from 'nothing', then it's always existed and has no need for a creator.

Your question is somewhat self-argumentative.

Edited by Likely Guy
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I heard a Rabbi once say: " God created God, so we could understand him."

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Where do you think God came from? If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?

The universe is either an open or a closed system.

There is no proof of which one it is and anybody claiming that there is is being ideological not scientific. If God created the universe then the universe is an open system. That means it can increase or decrease in mass or energy. Likewise scaling up the universe to the system God exists in then if thats a closed system the only way God could exist forever is if he can create mass or energy from nothingness.

So if you want to prove that God in principle could exist you need to find a form of free energy or mass.

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Where do you think God came from? If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?

It really does seem like a cop out to say "we can't comprehend it", but the only way I can relate it to anything I might understand is to take a group of beings we can create a world for and put them in it. I liked the South Park episode, so I'll go with a 'Sea People' analogy.

If I go out and buy a pack of Sea Monkeys (or say I created them, to be a more fitting relation), then make a glass bowl, fill it with water, and pour them in it, I've created them and their world. I could make a special house just for them and put it among property I built on acres of land I bought, and this is they would consider their universe, because it would be all they could possibly perceive, through their own limitations.

Now let's pretend they are deep thinking little Sea People, and ponder how their creator (or what they believe is their creator, for whatever reasons they have chosen) came to be. They would have no way of possibly knowing, because all they know is what their creator has made for them; which is all that they can perceive (or imagine), which can only be based on ideas and concepts they can draw from what they experience. All they can possibly experience (at least at this current point in their state of being) is what is in the created 'universe', most of which they don't even really know about for sure, and can only make guesses from making observations (assuming they had created little Sea People telescopes to glance across the vast distance of the great room, through the window, out into the seemingly never ending expanse of the grass field outside.

I can imagine the cute little Sea Monkeys filling their time just fine, putting the deep questions aside long enough to get through their daily routines. But I'm sure they would still sit at their little sea computers and log onto Unexplained Mysterseas, to discuss philosophical questions like 'who made our creator'. And in this great Sea Peopliverse, I bet there is one little sea-ling, sitting in his room, writing the same thing I am writing right now, saying "how can we know what we can't possibly Sea?"

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"If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?"

See above ^^^^^.

The problem with seeing all that we can around us, and calling it all that is (Universe) is that there could always be more we simply can't perceive from this vantage point. I'm sure white blood cells would agree with me, if they knew I was their world, and that there was more outside of me. If I could let them in on a ground breaking secret that their world was created by my mom and dad, who were created by their mom and dad, and go all the way until the point when I no longer knew who even made me, we might both at that point come to the understanding that some things we might not ever be able to understand from our own sets of boxes.

Or we could all just assume that what we can see with our eyes, feel with our fingers, and witness with our toys, is all that is, and we can just say it just happened, and that's that.

Given the first paragraph, I just can't do that.

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If the Universe can't come from 'nothing', then it's always existed and has no need for a creator.

Your question is somewhat self-argumentative.

No, you just interpreted what he was putting out, leaving out the very important next 5 words.

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His mother found him under a cabbage leaf.

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pipmr.jpg

pipou.jpg

morpheus___the_matrix_by_benji3o3-d50bc8i.gif

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The minds and imaginations of his authors.

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"If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?"

The problem with seeing all that we can around us, and calling it all that is (Universe) is that there could always be more we simply can't perceive from this vantage point. I'm sure white blood cells would agree with me, if they knew I was their world, and that there was more outside of me. If I could let them in on a ground breaking secret that their world was created by my mom and dad, who were created by their mom and dad, and go all the way until the point when I no longer knew who even made me, we might both at that point come to the understanding that some things we might not ever be able to understand from our own sets of boxes.

Or we could all just assume that what we can see with our eyes, feel with our fingers, and witness with our toys, is all that is, and we can just say it just happened, and that's that.

Given the first paragraph, I just can't do that.

A hundred years ago, all that we knew existed was our own galaxy. Edwin Hubble found that there were more galaxies in the early 1920's. Since then we have been seeing further and further out into space expanding the known universe. We have the ability to search for more.....white blood cells not so much.

Something has always existed. Either the universe or god. It is much easier for me to envision that the universe has always existed in one form or another rather than believe that it had an uncreated creator. Science gives us tangible evidence and tangible evidence is just that....tangible. God has to be taken on faith.

I'm all out of faith.....

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"If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?"

The problem with seeing all that we can around us, and calling it all that is (Universe) is that there could always be more we simply can't perceive from this vantage point. I'm sure white blood cells would agree with me, if they knew I was their world, and that there was more outside of me. If I could let them in on a ground breaking secret that their world was created by my mom and dad, who were created by their mom and dad, and go all the way until the point when I no longer knew who even made me, we might both at that point come to the understanding that some things we might not ever be able to understand from our own sets of boxes.

Or we could all just assume that what we can see with our eyes, feel with our fingers, and witness with our toys, is all that is, and we can just say it just happened, and that's that.

Given the first paragraph, I just can't do that.

I think we live in the midst of and are part of far more than what most people perceive. There is a lot that can't be seen with our eyes, telescopes and microscopes tell us that. Who knows what's here? Maybe we just don't have the right instrumentation yet.

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If the Universe can't come from 'nothing', then it's always existed and has no need for a creator.

Your question is somewhat self-argumentative.

Yup it is. The idea for this thread come from Ben's thread, "What God did not create". When he said,

snapback.pngBen Masada, on 09 November 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

You have all the right in the world to find sense in whatever you please. The universe cannot be born of nowhere as if out of the "hat of the magician". Even if it could, the magician brought it out of his hat.

I'm a Pantheist so my concept of God is very different from the Judeo-Christian take on what is God and the Universe. I see the creation of the Universe as actually birth as life is born in part of a natural system of birth, life and death in a realm of a multi-verse or many multi-verses. Nature seems to duplicate things like galaxies, stars, planets, right on down to viruses why not Universes, too. Just my humble uneducated opinion of how things might work.

Edited by GreenmansGod
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If I go out and buy a pack of Sea Monkeys (or say I created them, to be a more fitting relation), then make a glass bowl, fill it with water, and pour them in it, I've created them and their world.

So maybe God bought the universe just like you buy Sea Monkeys - a mail order package from the advertisements in kids' magazines.

Not the point you were probably trying to make but I thought it was funny. :lol:

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I think it comes from the Human yearning to not be alone(and by that I mean the only thinking beings) in the Universe.

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So maybe God bought the universe just like you buy Sea Monkeys - a mail order package from the advertisements in kids' magazines.

Not the point you were probably trying to make but I thought it was funny. :lol:

Yeah, it probably would go something like this: http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/153492/a-god-among-sea-men

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If you watch enough scifi you get kind of skeptical of anything dropping out of the sky or other dimension saying it is God.

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If you watch enough scifi you get kind of skeptical of anything dropping out of the sky or other dimension saying it is God.

There were quite a few Original Star Trek episodes with that theme actually.

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I think it was Terry Pratchett that said something about "man being a lucky ape that has attempted to explain the unfathomable questions of the universe and creation using a language that was only designed to tell his neighbours where the ripe fruit is!"

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Where did God come from?,

This question will be answered either when you die or Christ returns. :tu:

Edited by Ogbin

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