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spartan max2

School replaces security with art teachers

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http://news.msn.com/...save-his-school

So this principle has a school with horrible violence and grades and his solution was to get rid of the security guards so that he could afford to hire art teachers. AND it worked. The violence went down and grades went up. The article I posted is old btw.

But just goes to show if you treat people like they are in a prison then they will start acting like criminals.

Edited by Still Waters
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Wow! This is incredible. I think it's wonderful they were able to do this. :)

And yes, I agree, when you treat kids like their already in prison, it conditions them to accept, that they are criminals and will end up in jail anyway, so they begin to act like criminals. When you treat someone, especially impressionable kids, that they are future thugs or criminals, they are eventually going to start to believe it.

I know it's Salon but this was actually a very good article:

When schools were taken over by the state and made compulsory, and directed toward secular ends, the basic structure and methods of schooling remained unchanged. Subsequent attempts at reform have failed because, though they have tinkered some with the structure, they haven’t altered the basic blueprint. The top-down, teach-and-test method, in which learning is motivated by a system of rewards and punishments rather than by curiosity or by any real, felt desire to know, is well designed for indoctrination and obedience training but not much else. It’s no wonder that many of the world’s greatest entrepreneurs and innovators either left school early (like Thomas Edison), or said they hated school and learned despite it, not because of it (like Albert Einstein).

Link: http://www.salon.com/2013/08/26/school_is_a_prison_and_damaging_our_kids/

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Wow! This is incredible. I think it's wonderful they were able to do this. :)

And yes, I agree, when you treat kids like their already in prison, it conditions them to accept, that they are criminals and will end up in jail anyway, so they begin to act like criminals. When you treat someone, especially impressionable kids, that they are future thugs or criminals, they are eventually going to start to believe it.

I know it's Salon but this was actually a very good article:

Link: http://www.salon.com...aging_our_kids/

That is a really good article, I agree with it :tu:

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We always had art and gym and music from Kindergarten through High School, when I went through school in northern Ohio decades ago. So when my kids became school age decades later, in another state, I was shocked to learn they had no art program!

My SinL began teaching art and then music for free in the public elementary school so the kids in her area could be offered this opportunity.

My MinL said she had no idea she was artistically gifted until someone happened to tell her in her late teens, because they had no art classes in her school. Her art has financed her other passion- flying (pilot)- for 50 some years.

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We always had art and gym and music from Kindergarten through High School, when I went through school in northern Ohio decades ago. So when my kids became school age decades later, in another state, I was shocked to learn they had no art program!

My SinL began teaching art and then music for free in the public elementary school so the kids in her area could be offered this opportunity.

My MinL said she had no idea she was artistically gifted until someone happened to tell her in her late teens, because they had no art classes in her school. Her art has financed her other passion- flying (pilot)- for 50 some years.

That's a awesome story :). Art is a useful out let for kids and helps the imagination but our society is focused too much on test scores and they don't see art as a "practical" class for kids like math and science

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Here's another good one:

Link: http://www.school-su...like_prison.php

Some kids become too wordlessly angry at this deal to conform to the patterns laid down in 12 years of forced training; for these a graduate school or schools are created; for most it is the school of poverty and marginalization; for some, the school called jail. Jail is a place where the bare bones of forced schooling become exposed and highlighted

John Taylor Gatto wrote this article. He has written several books and can be seen in this film:

Link: http://m.youtube.com...h?v=YQiW_l848t8

It's long but a good watch. :)

Edited by Still Waters
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That's a awesome story :). Art is a useful out let for kids and helps the imagination but our society is focused too much on test scores and they don't see art as a "practical" class for kids like math and science

Or they'd rather spend money on sports, than a music class.

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And this is why the opposite of the article, black and white totalitarian thinking hurts us. Innovation is needed not more conformist statutes --"all for one and one for all". And taking kids away from home longer to save parents childcare costs.

John Gatto has some interesting ideas too. As well as Guerrilla Learning Movement.

The problem is there are so many variances in families and kids, it can be a tough. But why shy away from innovative thinking?

Edited by QuiteContrary
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But just goes to show if you treat people like they are in a prison then they will start acting like criminals.

Awesome...

& treat them with kindness and that kindness is returned..

Art = expression and creativity.. Things that sponsor Imagination and self empowerment..

Edited by Professor T
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He did a lot more than just hire art teachers.

http://www.huffingto..._n_3202426.html

In 2010 Orchard Gardens received a $4 million grant from the feds for being a "turnaround" school. That was a huge help.

The Huffington Post article says he replaced 80% of the teachers. That's amazing because in most districts it's easier to kill a teacher than replace them.

Then he extended the school day to 7:30AM to 5:30PM. That tends to keep kids out of trouble. The teachers work an extra hour and he contracted out the remaining time to non-profit teaching organizations. This was important because a quarter of the students are still learning English.

He also hired some art teachers.

The students are still far below the state averages in every proficiency level with no sign of a turnaround. They may be having lots of fun doing art but they're not learning math or science or history any better.

But if you judge the success of your schools by the level of violence in them, Orchard Gardens is definitely getting better.

Edited by scowl
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But just goes to show if you treat people like they are in a prison then they will start acting like criminals.

I think this is a cool story as well, but couldn't you use the same argument to support gun control, or the militarization of our police force?

If we are all armed and ready, won't we start shooting?

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I think this is a cool story as well, but couldn't you use the same argument to support gun control, or the militarization of our police force?

If we are all armed and ready, won't we start shooting?

I look at it as the militarization of the police force and taking peoples guns away is like treating us like we are prisoners. Instead of trusting us to be free. But I can understand the way your looking at it.

Edited by spartan max2
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He did a lot more than just hire art teachers.

http://www.huffingto..._n_3202426.html

In 2010 Orchard Gardens received a $4 million grant from the feds for being a "turnaround" school. That was a huge help.

The Huffington Post article says he replaced 80% of the teachers. That's amazing because in most districts it's easier to kill a teacher than replace them.

Then he extended the school day to 7:30AM to 5:30PM. That tends to keep kids out of trouble. The teachers work an extra hour and he contracted out the remaining time to non-profit teaching organizations. This was important because a quarter of the students are still learning English.

He also hired some art teachers.

The students are still far below the state averages in every proficiency level with no sign of a turnaround. They may be having lots of fun doing art but they're not learning math or science or history any better.

But if you judge the success of your schools by the level of violence in them, Orchard Gardens is definitely getting better.

thanks for the added info. yeah definitely a lot more to it then the head line.

Edited by spartan max2

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All my teachers were thought to be ex-Gestapo by the kids, so we were in Stalag Sunderland every day.They were crack shots bouncing the chalk off your head.It took me 10 yrs to escape.

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1001275_580741178670189_1738826296_n.jpg

Prisons are HUGE money making schemes. Schools, not so much.

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Prisons are HUGE money making schemes. Schools, not so much.

colleges/universities on the other hand :whistle:

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colleges/universities on the other hand :whistle:

And private schools?

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Prisons are HUGE money making schemes. Schools, not so much.

To teach you need to go to school and get a degree. To get a job in a prison, you take a class on how not to get killed. Which will provide more employment opportunities for the average voter?

Also Philadelphia's schools are considered a "Philadelphia" problem while prisons are considered a state problem.

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Well the article sounded nice... But as far as I can tell its pure propaganda. I know principals. 2 are clients, I pick their brains regularly. They usually ( don't know what they do in that state) don't have that kind of control over policy.

Nor are we talking about pure results here. K-7 "violence" and "problems" are nothing like Hugh school. In fact security guards will help keep the influences of high schoolers away from the younger schools. ( if they are worth their salt).

No way a few art classes curb violence of inner city schools. What city was that again.? ;)

Nothing against art of course... But I Believe the problem to be light years more complicated with socio economic elements trailing back to migrations for work after the abolition of slavery, Jim Crow laws, and especially segregation. Not even mentioning "thug" culture, and other social influences. Art?.... Yes... Awesome! Naivety..? :(

Edited by White Crane Feather
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Less cops and more troubadors next.

Minstrel power!

ZZ Top singing Don't Mess With Texas did more to scale back littering than a skunk with a ticket book.

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Another factor that's not mentioned in the article is how the student body may have changed in the past three years. Do the students in the school now come from the same impoverished neighborhoods as three years ago or has the principal sold the school as a good place for middle class families to send their kids? The principal certainly cleaned house and keeping students to 5:30PM is a great deal for busy working parents, wouldn't you say?

I'm suspicious of the games school administrators play to make their numbers look good. That's because here in Portland our school system has a ridiculously high dropout rate. Why? We've come up with a great system that steers at-risk students to "alternative" schools which indirectly encourage them to drop out and maybe think about getting a GED instead. The result: higher test scores and less school violence. Win-win! Except for those students.

This series of articles describes what's going on here.

There are so many ways to make a school appear to be a success. It's especially easy when the school was rock bottom to begin with. Anything that appears to be an easy answer i.e. "Hire more art teachers!" sets off alarms in my brain.

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Prisons lose money more than schools ithink

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Prisons lose money more than schools ithink

Prisons have lower overhead and much cheaper labor. You won't find swimming pools, football fields or science equipment in them, just a cheap weight room and maybe a wood shop.

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