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Rolci

Why I think extraterrestrial life MUST be

705 posts in this topic

OK, I must've had one of those inspirational moments where you realize stuff you haven't read elsewhere before and you have a little bit of a revelation of your own, unfolding in your mind. Not to say that these are original thoughts in the sense that we are the first to think of these, but it's the product of our own thought processes and as such they tend to become part of our own personal truth. So I just wanted to record these thoughts quick while they are fresh, and what the hell, I thought I might as well share them here at the same time. It all started with me debating UFOs and aliens, that is, the possibility of life elsewhere. I love the end conclusion of my brainstorming, but the way there is just as fascinating. However if you get bored at any point feel free to jump forward, I believe any one part of this reading is well worth pondering, but in the end it's supposed to make a coherent story.

As everything, it starts with the Big Bang. Even before I say anything further, I'd like to make a point that can be most eloquently illustrated by one of my favourite Terence Mckenna quotes:

"The Standard Model that we inherit from physics has..., it opens with something called the Big Bang. Interestingly, the way science operates is, it says, "Give us one free miracle, and then we can explain everything". Well, if science gets one free miracle, then, I think, every ideology ought to be given the same advantage. So, I think, that the miracle of the Big Bang is an unlikelihood so preposterous that it could almost be seen as the limit case for credulity. What I mean by that is, if you can believe that, you can believe anything! I mean, if you believe that the Universe sprang from nothing in a single instant from an area considerably smaller than the cross-section of a gnat's eyebrow, then I'd like to talk to you after the show about purchasing a large bridge across the Hudson river that's been in my family for generations."

So basically, we give science a free miracle unquestioningly and accept that the Universe happened to materialize from nothing. Fair enough, I mean it's not really, but let's move on for now. Let's pretend it makes sense so far. So you have a hot ball of energy that has the mass of all the billions of galaxies in the Universe today and it's not collapsing back into a black hole instantly even though its escape velocity is like a trillion times the speed of light. Fine. So why is it expanding? Is it supposed to? Has it got to? Anyway, there is this hot ball of exotic energy soup that is expanding God knows why. What does it even mean that it's hot. You say it's a property of energy. What gave it a property? How does it know it should have properties, and how many and what kind? So after a while as it "cools down" energy condensates into something the Universe had never seen before - matter. Why energy would do that, no one knows. You say it's the result of the laws of physics. Yeah but where did the laws come from? Why are there laws even? How did the Universe know it was supposed to have laws? And what determined what the laws would be? Was it all an accident that all the constants were exactly what they needed to be for the Universe to be stable? And for matter to appear? As though it had a plan. What was the ultimate plan? Apparently not the creation of matter because it didn't stop there. All these particles formed atoms, which formed stars, which formed galaxies. What a dull picture indeed. Imagine the miracle of a Universe jumping out of nothing just for boring galaxies to form with stars and planets so they can all just fall back together in a Big Crunch or expand forever until it all falls apart and the Universe becomes a desolate place with one atom per square light-year anywhere. Surely there must be something more.

And guess what. So it happened that the Universe had another thing up its sleeve, called chemical bonds! Wow, nice trick. How did it know? Not only have you carbon among many other elements, now you have water and other chemicals as well. So you have a Universe with energy turning into particles turning into atoms forming stars and galaxies and turning into molecules. You already guessed the next step, matter decides it will come alive, for no apparent reason. Guess it's just another law of nature, another accident. And so it happens that this thing called life, whatever it is, it evolves! It becomes more and more complex, eventually being coded into DNA. Hold on, coded? If there is a code, shouldn't be there someone writing it? Apparently not, this code can write itself. Amazing stuff! But not even remotely as amazing as a bunch of atoms and molecules forming an organism that can move and multiply becoming self-aware, by developing something exotic called consciousness, something that has thought processes, not just any kind, but abstract thinking, art, imagination, and something that asks itself questions like "Who am I?", "Where did I come from?" and so on. As Mckenna says, the Universe is a novelty generator. Consciousness is at least as exotic compared to the boring life of instinctual existence as the phenomenon of life itself compared to lifeless matter. A few important questions emerge here that deserve a new paragraph.

Do you really need any measure of a leap of faith to think that maybe, just maybe, conscious life is not the end product of the Universe? This is it. We are the ultimate product, there is no more. Does the Universe seem to you that stupid from what's happened so far that it would "run out of ideas" and stop here? The other question that you must ponder parallel to this is, do you think all the stars that exists today, and the galaxies that they make up, are the first generation since the formation of the first ones? Are these the same ancient original ones that formed 13 billion years ago? Shouldn't we have had one or more generations already some of which went supernova so all these heavy elements making up all these planets all across the Universe (you don't seriously think planets are a local phenomenon now do you?) could and coalesce and solidify and spread across space? Here comes the interesting part, because you laugh when you learn that we humans used to think that we are the centre of the Universe, that everything revolves around us. The irony is, with the number of humans on this planet still believing that we are the only life in the Universe, we are still EXACTLY in that infantile state. A few hundred years from now people will laugh how anyone could be so self-centred and naive as to think that this is it, this is the place, this is where it all started, where life emerged in the entire Universe, for the first time, yes it's us. As I will point out on a side-note, not impossible, just very highly improbable.

Let me illustrate why I think this is absurd. I would take you on a short trip, I would say into the future, but probably even the present will do. You must realize that every time we land a probe or an automated motor vehicle on a satellite or planet there is a possibility of life, microbes, bacteria etc. being transmitted. Even if it weren't, you surely realize that as soon as humans start colonizing space it will be a fact. The nature of life and its evolutionary properties is that it adapts to its environment and develops accordingly. How it knows it's supposed to is another question, as if it were programmed so self-aware beings can develop. Who knows. Anyway, you must admit that cross-seeding of life through meteors etc. and in a massive event in the case of planetary annihilation as would happen if we were to collide with another solid planet, is a definite possibility. As you look further into the future, say only a few billions of years from now, it's quite a high probability scenario that our galactic neighbourhood will be teeming with life, all unique according to the local environment. And 3-4 billion years from now, by which time there will be hundreds, maybe thousands of planets where the development of life will have reached the same level as we are at, those all different and unique beings will be asking themselves the same questions, like where they came from. And you would like to say: "This is it, this is the place, the one and only, where it all started." Wouldn't it be a valid assumption, wouldn't it be a realistic scenario that maybe, just maybe life got seeded here from somewhere else? That we are not THE centre of the Universe. We used to think so in terms of celestial mechanics, but we are still thinking so in terms of emergence of life. If the seeding of life from planet to planet is a realistic thing, why assume it is starting/has started right here? What would make us so special? What if? What if life arrived here from somewhere else? What if you followed the chain back in time and space you would realized there must've been 100s of branches off the main line, and branches off the branches, maybe conscious life has been doing this as a deliberate project, with an agenda, or multiple species with different agendas? How evolved do you think they could be if "simple" conscious life is not the end product of the Universe, which it probably isn't, and their planets got seeded 8-10 billion years ago? It doesn't even have to be much earlier than Earth, see how much human consciousness has evolved in the past 100 years? Where do you think we will be in 1000 years? How much our mental capacities have evolved in the past 10.000 years? Where do you think we will be in 100.000 years? Yet do you think humans are even capable of imagining what kind of exotic development is possible to emerge from conscious beings? Let alone even further steps. Let me quote Mckenna again:

"For monkeys to speak of truth is hubris of the highest degree. Where is it writ large that talking monkeys should be able to model the cosmos? If a sea urchin or a raccoon were to propose to you that it had a viable truth about the universe, the absurdity of that assertion would be self-evident, but in our case we make an exception."

What if there is an even bigger agenda that the Universe is all about? Even if it is just unfolding spontaneously, without a plan, the nature of the Universe seems to be like a playground with infinite possibilities and with an overarching tendency of stuff to become more and more complex, exotic, and novel, as if endlessly trying to exhaust those infinite possibilities. My favourite argument that skeptics like to use trying desperately to deny the possibility of life elsewhere in the universe (not really realizing its vastness, how could they be expected to, with our limited mental capacities) is when they say how inhospitable other planets must be and how special ours must be, and we are the right distance from the Sun, and water, etc. etc. Correct, life wouldn't exist on most of the other planets - life AS WE KNOW IT! But again, how closed a mind must one have to think that ours is the only possible kind of life, or indeed, consciousness that can exist in the Universe? That it is not possible for a different kind of life to emerge in a different environment? We even assume things like the laws of the Universe are all the same regardless of location and time, forever and for always. Who said so? Again I must quote Terence:

"And the basic message of materialism is that the world is what it appears to be: a thing composed of matter, and pretty much confined to its surface. The world is what it appears to be. Now, this, on the face of it, is a tremendously naïve position, because what it says is the animal body that you inhabit, the eyes you look through, the fingers you feel through, are somehow the ultimate instruments of metaphysical conjecture… which is highly improbable."

What if all that we can sense is not all that there is? Well obviously it's not, we can't even guess what dark matter is, let alone dark energy. And if you still think that when we have figured those out the Universe will have run out of surprises and we will have learned everything and gained an ultimate understanding? Sounds much like when Lord Kelvin said in 1900: "There is nothing new to be discovered in physics now. All that remains is more and more precise measurement." And we all know what happened within the following few years. So what shall we discover next? Maybe there are planes of existence we cannot interact with, at least not at our stage of evolution. Planes existing at different levels of vibrations, just like the light we see is a tiny section in an infinite spectrum. Like the densities you can read about in the Ra Material. http://en.wikipedia....erial#Densities or in much more detail http://llresearch.or..._one_book_1.pdf , the first of a 5-book series that changed my life forever.

My 2 cents for tonight.

Edited by Still Waters
Fixed post at OP's request
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You seem to have repeated yourself, I do not have time right now, as I have things to do this afternoon (it's 2:20 PM here) I suggest you have a look at some literature on the big bang, it is proposed that anti matter colliding with matter caused the initial reaction, I think many of your questions are answered, but long post, as I said not time for it today, but if it is still here when I get back, I will address the points in detail if you like. If you will bother to read it that is.

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But again, how closed a mind must one have to think that ours is the only possible kind of life, or indeed, consciousness that can exist in the Universe? That it is not possible for a different kind of life to emerge in a different environment?

Yes indeed that would be closed minded. Do you know who exactly doesn't think life exists elsewhere? I for one do, and I know others who do too, On here! I have little doubt that life exists elsewhere, and may possibly even be as close as Europa, our nearest water world. And Im a skeptic!!

But... life includes also... simple organisms, algae, plant life... I can very readily accept these types of life are 'common' out there. They have to be - as they are the beginnings of a food chain.. Maybe too, there will be a race similar to us in terms of our development, and maybe there will be races more ahead, pretty much all the cards are on the table. The whole reason we explore Mars is to find ANY evidence of past life and what happened to its atmosphere

Even the Pope thinks so!!

"The Vatican's official newspaper has endorsed the possibility that the universe could contain intelligent life beyond Earth, while insisting that aliens would be "our brothers" and "children of God" as much as human beings are".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/popes-astronomer-insists-alien-life-would-be-part-of-gods-creation-828303.html

The only issues I have with any alien life elsewhere.... is that they visit us without stopping to say hello, and prefer instead to interfere with animals and probe humans, then whizz off again.

THAT... I find, is simply ridiculous

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Yes indeed that would be closed minded. Do you know who exactly doesn't think life exists elsewhere?

That would be me. Well, not exactly. I'm one of the few who admit that we don't have enough information to think about this question in a meaningful way. If we have absolutely no evidence that life exists elsewhere then why are people so utterly convinced that it simply must exist?

I'm also one of the very few who believe that the series of events that happened on Earth that were necessary to create and sustain life here is so extremely unlikely to be duplicated that it's possible that it has never been duplicated or was only partially duplicated so life only survived for relatively short period.

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Yes indeed that would be closed minded. Do you know who exactly doesn't think life exists elsewhere? I for one do, and I know others who do too, On here! I have little doubt that life exists elsewhere, and may possibly even be as close as Europa, our nearest water world. And Im a skeptic!!

But... life includes also... simple organisms, algae, plant life... I can very readily accept these types of life are 'common' out there. They have to be - as they are the beginnings of a food chain.. Maybe too, there will be a race similar to us in terms of our development, and maybe there will be races more ahead, pretty much all the cards are on the table. The whole reason we explore Mars is to find ANY evidence of past life and what happened to its atmosphere

Even the Pope thinks so!!

"The Vatican's official newspaper has endorsed the possibility that the universe could contain intelligent life beyond Earth, while insisting that aliens would be "our brothers" and "children of God" as much as human beings are".

http://www.independe...ion-828303.html

The only issues I have with any alien life elsewhere.... is that they visit us without stopping to say hello, and prefer instead to interfere with animals and probe humans, then whizz off again.

THAT... I find, is simply ridiculous

Oh, the Vatican has made contact with extraterrestrials.

The Pleiadians made contact with the Pope a long time ago.

The truth is buried in their library.

We are slowly but surely being prepared for disclosure. "They were here before us."

The Pope / Vatican is considered to be the most spiritually developed organization on Earth.

They have also been empowered by God to cast out demons / fallen angels.....Lucifer, Beelzebub, Leviathan and the rest that were thrown out of heaven.

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it is proposed that anti matter colliding with matter caused the initial reaction, I think many of your questions are answered

I'm sure you realize the obvious question is, where did that matter come from, and where did the thing that created the matter come from, and what was the temperature where this matter collided with antimatter that they even existed as condensed form of energy, and where did the collision take place, you mean the fabric of space and time existed before the Universe began? How did space and time attain the properties they had and how does it logically follow that they must have necessarily existed. Anyway, I do not find it overly productive to get stuck at questions like that, and what you said would hardly qualify for "a question being answered", I'm quite honestly surprised you actually said that being a hardcore skeptic. To believe something we have no proof for, to accept something on faith. Anyway, for me personally, it fits perfectly with everything I outlined above when I read things like:

Questioner: You stated earlier that toward the center of this galaxy is what, to use a poor term, you could call the older portion where you would find no service-to-self polarization. Am I correct in assuming that this is true with the other galaxies with which Wanderers from Ra have experience? At the center of these galaxies only the service-to-others polarity exists and the experiment started farther out toward the rim of the galaxy?

Ra: I am Ra. Various Logoi and sub-Logoi had various methods of arriving at the discovery of the efficiency of free will in intensifying the experience of the Creator by the Creator. However, in each case this has been a pattern.

Questioner: You mean then that the pattern is that the service-to-self polarization appeared farther out from the center of the galactic spiral?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

Questioner: From this I will assume that from the beginning of the octave we had the core of many galactic spirals forming, and I know that this is incorrect in the sense of timelessness, but as the spiral formed then I am assuming that in this particular octave the experiment of the veiling and the extending of free will must have started, roughly, simultaneously in many, many of the budding or building galactic systems. Am I in any way correct with this assumption?

Ra: I am Ra. You are precisely correct. This instrument is unusually fragile at this space/time and has used much of the transferred energy. We would invite one more full query for this working.

Questioner: Actually, I don’t have much more on this except to make the assumption that there must have been some type of communication throughout the octave so that, when the first experiment became effective, knowledge of this spread rapidly through the octave and was picked up by other budding galactic spirals, you might say. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. To be aware of the nature of this communication is to be aware of the nature of the Logos. Much of what you call creation has never separated from the One Logos of this octave and resides within the one infinite Creator. Communication in such an environment is the communication of cells of the body. That which is learned by one is known to all. The sub-Logoi, then, have been in the position of refining the discoveries of what might be called the earlier sub-Logoi.

True or not, things like this are what fascinate and sustain me. Since, as scowl said, "we don't have enough information to think about this question in a meaningful way", I have opted for what is the next best thing for me. Reading stuff like this I'll die happy, until we know stuff for sure. But like I said, you can always doubt. Like I said in the other topic. But you didn't seem to understand so let me rephrase: Suppose they "announce" news of alien life all over the news. first people would say it's a joke. Then realizing the seriousness, many would start looking for a hidden agenda behind the obvious lies, and asking the obvious questions like "Why are they showing us these?" And skeptics can ALWAYS say that the "aliens" they are showing are obviously genetic experiments the US has been doing secretly, their UFOs are just secret military craft developed in the past? And when the media respond and show footage of the aliens' planets, skeptics will simply say "Oh, look, our secret societies have already colonized those planets!" And the only question for them will be, what exactly are they trying to achieve by making us believe there are aliens? To convince us that we need to invest into more advanced weaponary to protect us from possible hostile civilizations? The possibilities are endless. And the point being, if you don't want to believe, no evidence is good enough, including media disclosure, government admission or mass landing.

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*sigh* The big bang did NOT "come from nothing". I really wish people would stop saying this as it is not true.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1
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Extraterrestrials consider God to be " The Creator ".

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I'm sure you realize the obvious question is, where did that matter come from, and where did the thing that created the matter come from, and what was the temperature where this matter collided with antimatter that they even existed as condensed form of energy, and where did the collision take place, you mean the fabric of space and time existed before the Universe began? How did space and time attain the properties they had and how does it logically follow that they must have necessarily existed. Anyway, I do not find it overly productive to get stuck at questions like that, and what you said would hardly qualify for "a question being answered", I'm quite honestly surprised you actually said that being a hardcore skeptic. To believe something we have no proof for, to accept something on faith. Anyway, for me personally, it fits perfectly with everything I outlined above when I read things like:

Questioner: You stated earlier that toward the center of this galaxy is what, to use a poor term, you could call the older portion where you would find no service-to-self polarization. Am I correct in assuming that this is true with the other galaxies with which Wanderers from Ra have experience? At the center of these galaxies only the service-to-others polarity exists and the experiment started farther out toward the rim of the galaxy?

Ra: I am Ra. Various Logoi and sub-Logoi had various methods of arriving at the discovery of the efficiency of free will in intensifying the experience of the Creator by the Creator. However, in each case this has been a pattern.

Questioner: You mean then that the pattern is that the service-to-self polarization appeared farther out from the center of the galactic spiral?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

Questioner: From this I will assume that from the beginning of the octave we had the core of many galactic spirals forming, and I know that this is incorrect in the sense of timelessness, but as the spiral formed then I am assuming that in this particular octave the experiment of the veiling and the extending of free will must have started, roughly, simultaneously in many, many of the budding or building galactic systems. Am I in any way correct with this assumption?

Ra: I am Ra. You are precisely correct. This instrument is unusually fragile at this space/time and has used much of the transferred energy. We would invite one more full query for this working.

Questioner: Actually, I don’t have much more on this except to make the assumption that there must have been some type of communication throughout the octave so that, when the first experiment became effective, knowledge of this spread rapidly through the octave and was picked up by other budding galactic spirals, you might say. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. To be aware of the nature of this communication is to be aware of the nature of the Logos. Much of what you call creation has never separated from the One Logos of this octave and resides within the one infinite Creator. Communication in such an environment is the communication of cells of the body. That which is learned by one is known to all. The sub-Logoi, then, have been in the position of refining the discoveries of what might be called the earlier sub-Logoi.

True or not, things like this are what fascinate and sustain me. Since, as scowl said, "we don't have enough information to think about this question in a meaningful way", I have opted for what is the next best thing for me. Reading stuff like this I'll die happy, until we know stuff for sure. But like I said, you can always doubt. Like I said in the other topic. But you didn't seem to understand so let me rephrase: Suppose they "announce" news of alien life all over the news. first people would say it's a joke. Then realizing the seriousness, many would start looking for a hidden agenda behind the obvious lies, and asking the obvious questions like "Why are they showing us these?" And skeptics can ALWAYS say that the "aliens" they are showing are obviously genetic experiments the US has been doing secretly, their UFOs are just secret military craft developed in the past? And when the media respond and show footage of the aliens' planets, skeptics will simply say "Oh, look, our secret societies have already colonized those planets!" And the only question for them will be, what exactly are they trying to achieve by making us believe there are aliens? To convince us that we need to invest into more advanced weaponary to protect us from possible hostile civilizations? The possibilities are endless. And the point being, if you don't want to believe, no evidence is good enough, including media disclosure, government admission or mass landing.

seeder: I am seeder. And I say Ra must be a freakin idiot if he feels he has to say - who he is - before answering every question :w00t:

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seeder: I am seeder. And I say Ra must be a freakin idiot if he feels he has to say - who he is - before answering every question :w00t:

Indeed,... He sounds like some space douche from a 60s sci-fi movie.

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seeder: I am seeder. And I say Ra must be a freakin idiot if he feels he has to say - who he is - before answering every question :w00t:

Well, so it happens that it has more importance that it be stated than any message that follows. If it weren't, do you think it would happen? Just because YOU don't understand the reason, does that mean that it is stupid? Or does it mean something else? You don't seem to know a whole lot about trance channeling, the challenging process, or the possible dangers involved. Quick to judge, slow to look for the logical answer. No intention to hurt feelings, Just sharing my observation.

Edited by Rolci

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i’ve seen enough hentai to know where this is going...

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No need to even say anything ! :no:

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I do not wish to turn this topic into a debate about the validity or invalidity of channeling, but I must note that there are those that, for one reason or another, wish to have the general populace lose all trust in channeled material, and they're doing fine, they've done a terrific job so far with all the GFOL contacts, we all know about that. You will have blair-witch type videos similar to this where actors will pretend to be a channeler and an investigator and carry out scenes like this, but this one was bad for even that, I mean what kind of sh.tty actor would act so bad that their agenda would become obvious. My opinion in this case is that this is a sad example of a poor chap desperate to do anything for cash, it will inevitably happen, people pretending to be channelers. What's surprising about that? If I pretended to be an astronaut and turned out that I'm not really one, would that mean that there are no astronauts? This is one category, the second most populous in my opinion.

Then we have those who are sincere about their belief that they are channeling but if they're channeling anything it's their subconscious or they're just delusional. Again, for such cases to exist is inevitable.

However, the group I believe most "channelers" belong to is the ones who honestly believe they are channeling ET and are indeed channeling ET but are unaware of the MECHANICS of channeling, how it works, what are the possible risks, what you have to pay attention to. Consider the possibility that not all ETs have good intentions toward us and some would wish to see those of us that seek higher truth and wisdom most lose faith altogether that such is possible through channeling. What do they do? Very simple really, they hijack the contact and pretend to be the good ET and start distorting the message, make predictions that will never come true, and lo and behold, the observer says: I knew it, it's all a lie, channeling is a lie. Sure, if the channeler is not EXPERIENCED enough to know what's needed to make sure the contact is not hijacked. And the fact is, most do NOT. Sorry, good intentions is not good enough, never was. It's a crowded universe. There are steps that need to be taken which are ignored.

And here on Earth those who hold the real power, what do you think they want us to be? spiritual peace advocates or materialist consumers. Do you think they will stand by and watch spiritualism grow? Destroying the reputation of good channeling is the least that can be done and has been done. Does that mean that there is no good channeling? No. There is a very very small fraction that is "good". Not before you start disputing that it comes from ET let me point out that I don't care where it comes from and none of the genuine seekers out there do. For all I can it can be their higher selves, their guides, or even their sunconscious or even conscious selves. Heck for all I can they can be doing it with malicious intentions. As long as it works for me, makes me a better person, helps improve my health and relationships what do I care? The Edgar Cayce channelings (from the Akashic Records) have helped thousands at the time and millions since. Who cares if it's Akashic Records or something else? The things he channeled changed lives for the better. If anyone has done a little bit of in-depth investigation into how he helped others, can you say the same of you? Or anything close? Do you even have such intentions? If you're a channeler and your work helps people I don't care who you are and if what you're doing is genuine or something different. I care about the end result.

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Oh, the Vatican has made contact with extraterrestrials.

The Pleiadians made contact with the Pope a long time ago.

The truth is buried in their library.

We are slowly but surely being prepared for disclosure. "They were here before us."

The Pope / Vatican is considered to be the most spiritually developed organization on Earth.

They have also been empowered by God to cast out demons / fallen angels.....Lucifer, Beelzebub, Leviathan and the rest that were thrown out of heaven.

So they're fantasy?
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Getting back to the original topic I would like to share a second part to my revelation that came to me more recently and is a direct continuation of the 2 pages I started with. The idea itself is so obvious and follows so logically, it's an embarrassment it actually took me time to arrive at it.Basically what it is, once you have realized that the Universe is a perpetual noverty generator producing more and more complex... well, phenomena as it's always something radically new and miraculous compared to what had already been, and then you put this together with the obvious possibility of seeding of life across the universe in which chain we're probably somewhere in the middle, with some worlds having been seeded only recently and life still being at an infant state compared to that on Earth, others that probably seeded us having been at our stage of development billions of years ago, what you get is quite simply... an ocean of worlds that have already been affected to various degrees by the novelty-generating property of the Universe. You're surprised to hear about encounters of the fourth kind involving telepathic communication? A simple exchange of brainwaves achievable with our level of tech is no miracle to me, we can induce states of consciousness that imitate astral projection. Considering forms of life that have developed that capability is nothing more surprising. What you need to do is use your imagination and see how far you can go at guessing what you think the Universe could provide self-conscious beings after, say, 100 milion years of evolution. Humans have only been here a short while and consciousness and self-awareness is a relatively new phenomenon, especially on the cosmic timescale.

So where are all our friends you ask? The order of the Universe is that higher forms of matter and life are aware of the lower but never the other way around, not beyond a certain width of gap. The rock is not aware of the ant climbing on top but the rabbit knows the hole is there and it can hide, the chameleon is aware of its surrounding and changes colour accordingly. We can see there's and ant climbing on the rock, we know what the rock is or what the ant is, but do you think the ant is aware who or what you are, that the fish knows of cities, the bird of human art? No. And what do you do when you walk in the garden and see a rock in the grass or a caterpillar hiding in the grass? Do you bend down to stroke the rock or kiss the caterpillar and offer them your human wisdom, or try and build them infrastructure, roads for the hedgehog, maybe build a school for frogs? No. You ignore them. You know they'er there but their intellect is no match to yours, you have nothing to talk about, you take no interest in them. Do you think that alien species that have been around long enough to develop tech that takes them across vast expanses of space and in the meantime have evolved far beyond us intellectually and/or spiritually, but in any case in their understanding of the Universe and how it operates, will stop by and say hello to a species that hasn't even left its own planetary environment? One that is still in its spiritual infancy? One that is still killing its own kind? That hasn't come over greed, jealosy and the rest? Yes, some will try and provide assistance, using their telepathic capabilities, contacting a few who are open and ready, but don't expect them to mass land, I sure can't see how that would make you or me a better person, and if I can figure that one out I think they must be well aware of same. Contact is not the solution. We are hostile toward our own kind, you reckon they think we'll welcome them with open arms? An arms race maybe. So don't be surprised if most of them will ignore us completely and the few who will take interest will only interact in a covert manner. Or if you expect conquerors wanting resources, there are plenty of uninhabited planets for that, but by the time you develop space-faring technology do you think you'll still be stuck at the "how far can we conquer" game? Rather than explore the, by that time realized, infinite possibilities of the Universe? You want them to come for resources? For our oil? Or water? They are far beyond the ability to synthesize anything they want in any quantity they want if they've come this far. If they will want to fight that'll be for something we don't have, and probably with an equal match. Do we rob the beaver for the twigs? Hardly. Although we are still playing the conquering game, spreading and multiplying like a maniac, unable to control our own species (the Chinese are an exception but look at Indonesia where the population has been doubling every 30 years in the past few hundred years, and I just quoted a random country), even though we are aware of the consequences, the havoc we wreak in nature that sustains us, gives our oxygen, our food, we deplete the oceans, pollute the air we breathe. I could go on but these facts are well known yet well ignored, all for the sake of a convenient quick incarnation. we must grow up on our own. ET coming to save us won't teach a thing. You need a WW2 to say "No more of this". But with us humans, even that didn't seem enough. I'm surprised members of the "Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator" still have hope for us. I'm not sure any more. People coming to forums to convince others ETs don't exist will hardly help any of us move forward. Striving for spiritual maturity, taking responsibility for our actions individually and collectively, pursuing an understanding of who we are and what human consciousness is, widening our horizons, our scope of vision, ever broadening our point of perspective, setting goals that matter and make a difference rather than building a career, doing something constructive or creative rather watching TV, seeking challenges rather than entertainment, and then passing on true wisdom by setting a good example to our kids and caring for our elders would seem more fruitful to me.

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Getting back to the original topic I would like to share a second part to my revelation that came to me more recently and is a direct continuation of the 2 pages I started with. The idea itself is so obvious and follows so logically, it's an embarrassment it actually took me time to arrive at it.Basically what it is, once you have realized that the Universe is a perpetual noverty generator producing more and more complex... well, phenomena as it's always something radically new and miraculous compared to what had already been, and then you put this together with the obvious possibility of seeding of life across the universe in which chain we're probably somewhere in the middle, with some worlds having been seeded only recently and life still being at an infant state compared to that on Earth, others that probably seeded us having been at our stage of development billions of years ago, what you get is quite simply... an ocean of worlds that have already been affected to various degrees by the novelty-generating property of the Universe. You're surprised to hear about encounters of the fourth kind involving telepathic communication? A simple exchange of brainwaves achievable with our level of tech is no miracle to me, we can induce states of consciousness that imitate astral projection. Considering forms of life that have developed that capability is nothing more surprising. What you need to do is use your imagination and see how far you can go at guessing what you think the Universe could provide self-conscious beings after, say, 100 milion years of evolution. Humans have only been here a short while and consciousness and self-awareness is a relatively new phenomenon, especially on the cosmic timescale.

So where are all our friends you ask? The order of the Universe is that higher forms of matter and life are aware of the lower but never the other way around, not beyond a certain width of gap. The rock is not aware of the ant climbing on top but the rabbit knows the hole is there and it can hide, the chameleon is aware of its surrounding and changes colour accordingly. We can see there's and ant climbing on the rock, we know what the rock is or what the ant is, but do you think the ant is aware who or what you are, that the fish knows of cities, the bird of human art? No. And what do you do when you walk in the garden and see a rock in the grass or a caterpillar hiding in the grass? Do you bend down to stroke the rock or kiss the caterpillar and offer them your human wisdom, or try and build them infrastructure, roads for the hedgehog, maybe build a school for frogs? No. You ignore them. You know they'er there but their intellect is no match to yours, you have nothing to talk about, you take no interest in them. Do you think that alien species that have been around long enough to develop tech that takes them across vast expanses of space and in the meantime have evolved far beyond us intellectually and/or spiritually, but in any case in their understanding of the Universe and how it operates, will stop by and say hello to a species that hasn't even left its own planetary environment? One that is still in its spiritual infancy? One that is still killing its own kind? That hasn't come over greed, jealosy and the rest? Yes, some will try and provide assistance, using their telepathic capabilities, contacting a few who are open and ready, but don't expect them to mass land, I sure can't see how that would make you or me a better person, and if I can figure that one out I think they must be well aware of same. Contact is not the solution. We are hostile toward our own kind, you reckon they think we'll welcome them with open arms? An arms race maybe. So don't be surprised if most of them will ignore us completely and the few who will take interest will only interact in a covert manner. Or if you expect conquerors wanting resources, there are plenty of uninhabited planets for that, but by the time you develop space-faring technology do you think you'll still be stuck at the "how far can we conquer" game? Rather than explore the, by that time realized, infinite possibilities of the Universe? You want them to come for resources? For our oil? Or water? They are far beyond the ability to synthesize anything they want in any quantity they want if they've come this far. If they will want to fight that'll be for something we don't have, and probably with an equal match. Do we rob the beaver for the twigs? Hardly. Although we are still playing the conquering game, spreading and multiplying like a maniac, unable to control our own species (the Chinese are an exception but look at Indonesia where the population has been doubling every 30 years in the past few hundred years, and I just quoted a random country), even though we are aware of the consequences, the havoc we wreak in nature that sustains us, gives our oxygen, our food, we deplete the oceans, pollute the air we breathe. I could go on but these facts are well known yet well ignored, all for the sake of a convenient quick incarnation. we must grow up on our own. ET coming to save us won't teach a thing. You need a WW2 to say "No more of this". But with us humans, even that didn't seem enough. I'm surprised members of the "Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator" still have hope for us. I'm not sure any more. People coming to forums to convince others ETs don't exist will hardly help any of us move forward. Striving for spiritual maturity, taking responsibility for our actions individually and collectively, pursuing an understanding of who we are and what human consciousness is, widening our horizons, our scope of vision, ever broadening our point of perspective, setting goals that matter and make a difference rather than building a career, doing something constructive or creative rather watching TV, seeking challenges rather than entertainment, and then passing on true wisdom by setting a good example to our kids and caring for our elders would seem more fruitful to me.

My conclusion from this is that the human race is to be avoided at this time. Not appealing people to be with. Dangerous. Infected. These sort of ideas.

If the human race was appealing it wouldn't be alone.

This further indicates perhaps why the ET's that do visit have a 'help yourself' attitude. The sovereignty of the human or it's ecology is not respected. They come and go uninvited; like burglars.

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This further indicates perhaps why the ET's that do visit have a 'help yourself' attitude. The sovereignty of the human or it's ecology is not respected. They come and go uninvited; like burglars.

help yourself, up to a certain point, from there on we can talk. like the prime directive in star trek. but when you develop warp tech you are contacted. warp tech being a symbol for spiritual maturity. Then yoou can co-operate or go your own way, but you will become aware of a whole new world and can make further choices accordingly, join the galactic brotherhood or do anything else, within the boundaries of your new horizons.

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I wouldn't exactly land to greet the population if I was from another world, and had advanced technology. They might

take you prisoner and demand all the technology from you, and the vessel you arrived in. This world and it's conflicts

between countries has no place in space exploration to other worlds, at least in my opinion, till we get along on this

planet.

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My conclusion from this is that the human race is to be avoided at this time. Not appealing people to be with. Dangerous. Infected. These sort of ideas.

If the human race was appealing it wouldn't be alone.

This further indicates perhaps why the ET's that do visit have a 'help yourself' attitude. The sovereignty of the human or it's ecology is not respected. They come and go uninvited; like burglars.

In more than one book I have read of late on the subject of ET's and UFO's, and abductions, most of the abductees mention they are shown apocalyptic images of earth. What do they seem to know that we do not.???,

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Then we have those who are sincere about their belief that they are channeling but if they're channeling anything it's their subconscious or they're just delusional.

how do you differentiate between the two?

However, the group I believe most "channelers" belong to is the ones who honestly believe they are channeling ET and are indeed channeling ET but are unaware of the MECHANICS of channeling

you cannot make a distinction, yet believe et is talking?

Does that mean that there is no good channeling? No. There is a very very small fraction that is "good". Not before you start disputing that it comes from ET let me point out that I don't care where it comes from and none of the genuine seekers out there do.

then why invoke et?

For all I can it can be their higher selves, their guides, or even their sunconscious or even conscious selves.

so, back to square one?

i know where the problem is.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Heck for all I can they can be doing it with malicious intentions. As long as it works for me, makes me a better person, helps improve my health and relationships what do I care?

good for you... but then why aren't you enjoying the peace and are instead here spouting nonsense?

you really believe this stuff is healthy and good?

:sm

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Nice cherrypicking. And your purpose here is... change the world, make it a better place I assume?

So basically what you're saying is, if you find the contents of a given source helpful or useful in an aspect of your life and have read how it's changed the lives of others for the better, it is your number one responsibility to ascertain the exact nature of the source to make sure it is of a kind that no one person has created a category for which they would despise. So for example if you discover that the transformative information you have found originates from a so-called channeled source, at least allegedly, and it is your understanding that there exist people whose personal opinion is that any and all material that the originators CLAIM to be channeled is guaranteed to be nonsense, then it is imperative that you do not share it with anyone else on forums or anywhere else lest you be judged by self-appointed superior human beings who know for a fact that whatever you have to say is wrong and false and nonsensic even before you say it as long as it has been associated with channeling in any way whatsoever and you must therefore withdraw from all form of communication of said material in order to avoid being accused of "spouting nonsense", and if you have found anything that gives you peace, the only possible avenue of action is to bugger off and enjoy it far far away from everything and everyone and by no means attempt to share it. Because you say so.

Did I get that right?

May I ask you a personal question? Has no one ever inspired you? Do not people have the right to attempt to inspire others? If they claim that the wisdom thay are communicating is coming through them rather than from them and refuse to take credit for something they feel they would be not wise enough to think up, is that in and of itself bad? If I find a handful of materials that are claimed to be channeled inspiring and have the opinion that they MIGHT inspire others, do I not have the right to free speech and free sharing? What kind of world are you living in? Is censorship, based on generalization and stereotyping, part of your ideal world? Just because YOU call something nonsense doesn't mean it won't work for someone else. One man's trash is another man's treasure. If you dislike human diversity and have a grudge against the human condition because you are incapable of acceptance and respect, maybe because you've never tried these things, then maybe you need some channeled material to help you with that, you don't seem to be able to cope by yourself.

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Now I know I will have bad dreams about this thread ! Ewewee ! Sends chills into my grey matter. :alien: Now How Am I going to call home about this development ?

:tu:

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I don't recall science asking for a free miracle. There are many theories concerning the big bang. I personally like the quantum fluctuation thing but whichever turns out to be correct or if none do and another is discovered no hocus pocus was required.

Oh sorry Cowboy I am Cowboy

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Nice cherrypicking.

nops, i just tried to guide you through your fallacies so that you could see how ridiculous your claims seem...

And your purpose here is... change the world, make it a better place I assume?

nops, just discuss about the ufo phenomenon and extraterrestrial life...

So basically what you're saying is, if you find the contents of a given source helpful or useful in an aspect of your life and have read how it's changed the lives of others for the better, it is your number one responsibility to ascertain the exact nature of the source to make sure it is of a kind that no one person has created a category for which they would despise.

sorry, i'm not into preaching...

So for example if you discover that the transformative information you have found originates from a so-called channeled source, at least allegedly, and it is your understanding that there exist people whose personal opinion is that any and all material that the originators CLAIM to be channeled is guaranteed to be nonsense, then it is imperative that you do not share it with anyone else on forums or anywhere else lest you be judged by self-appointed superior human beings who know for a fact that whatever you have to say is wrong and false and nonsensic even before you say it as long as it has been associated with channeling in any way whatsoever and you must therefore withdraw from all form of communication of said material in order to avoid being accused of "spouting nonsense",

i won't share it on a forum...

and if you have found anything that gives you peace, the only possible avenue of action is to bugger off and enjoy it far far away from everything and everyone and by no means attempt to share it. Because you say so.

nops, you can share it through the proper networks...

Did I get that right?

see above...

Edited by mcrom901
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