The West Surrenders

[+and-then]

You see, this is why it's difficult to have honest, good faith discussions with people like yourself. You are completely biased, and are now referencing a book that has zero authority on any legal matters, is riddled with lies, is inconsistent within itself, and was a construct of man over several centuries.

I respect your lack of faith and in no way condemn you for it. But if you honestly think you can divorce what is going on between these two peoples and their faith then I think you are badly deluded. Whether you (or I) believe in the God of Abraham, the people who are fighting over there DO...very much. And the chaos there is a result of it.

[green_dude777]

I respect your lack of faith and in no way condemn you for it. But if you honestly think you can divorce what is going on between these two peoples and their faith then I think you are badly deluded. Whether you (or I) believe in the God of Abraham, the people who are fighting over there DO...very much. And the chaos there is a result of it.

I don't think we can divorce those people of their respective faiths at this time. What I do expect is those in the U.S. to be able to separate their belief/faith from international relations. We don't allow the mix of church and state at home, why do you mix church with foreign policy?

[danielost]

We mix church in evrything we do. They prey everyday congress is in session and I hope the don't stop.

[green_dude777]

We mix church in evrything we do. They prey everyday congress is in session and I hope the don't stop.

Read the first amendment.

Not sure how praying is making policies based on religion.

[DeWitz]

The palestinians are from jordan. Isreal has offered them both the gaza strip and thw west bank. All the palestinians have to do is stop trying to kill isreali citizens.

As I have politely requested previously, pick up (and read) a dictionary or use some form of "spellcheck," Otherwise, you are babbling.

[DeWitz]

As I have politely requested previously, pick up (and read) a dictionary or use some form of "spellcheck," Otherwise, you are babbling.

The Palestinians are, and always have been, residents of the nation now known as the State of Israel. Do you know how many thousands of homes were confiscated by the Israeli war of Independence? (1948).

I didn't think so.

Go back to your Palmyra find. . . .

[DeWitz]

And then, do you really want to see "Armageddon?" Do you want the horrors of John's vision to befall us?

I can't figure you out. Either you are a sadist who wants fire, rapine, pillage, death, decay, destruction. . .

Or you are a misguided Christian, listening to or reading the dimbulb ideas of Hal Lindsay, Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye and connecting Middle East peace processes (ongoing since 1949) to US and European negotiations with Iran.

Either way, your Christianity seems based on ridiculous time-keeping.

The time, AT, is. . . .NOW.

[+and-then]

I don't think we can divorce those people of their respective faiths at this time. What I do expect is those in the U.S. to be able to separate their belief/faith from international relations. We don't allow the mix of church and state at home, why do you mix church with foreign policy?

First of all I have no authority in any of these matters But my point is that whether one believes in these prophecies or not, THESE people are being guided by them. If you take the time to educate yourself on some of the commentaries of these prophecies it will amaze you the way the daily news is lining up with things that were written about over two millennia ago. Leaving faith aside, that alone is pretty interesting and should be thought provoking to any person with an open mind. Psalm 83 speaks of all the nations immediately surrounding Israel coming against her people to destroy them so that the "name of Israel is remembered no more". And Isaiah tells of Damascus being turned into a heap of ruins in a single day. Iran (Persia) joins a confederation including Turkey and a nation to the extreme north of Israel along with some African nations and they come against Israel to "take a spoil". They are utterly destroyed.

Believing these days is less and less about faith and more and more about humility.

[+and-then]

And then, do you really want to see "Armageddon?" Do you want the horrors of John's vision to befall us?

I can't figure you out. Either you are a sadist who wants fire, rapine, pillage, death, decay, destruction. . .

Or you are a misguided Christian, listening to or reading the dimbulb ideas of Hal Lindsay, Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye and connecting Middle East peace processes (ongoing since 1949) to US and European negotiations with Iran.

Either way, your Christianity seems based on ridiculous time-keeping.

The time, AT, is. . . .NOW.

Of course the time is now. Why would a person of faith NOT want to see the day to day events as a herald of a better time in this sick, dying world? Your two options for me are pretty depressing, either I'm an idiot or a sadist. In your world cannot a person comment on what they believe without being held responsible personally for that thing when it comes about? I believe the sun will rise tomorrow but I have done nothing to make it do so. Only an evil person would want to see others suffer and die. Does it occur to you that if by speaking out about this, maybe someone will read, think and seek to know the Lord better - perhaps escaping these horrors? I think the root issue for you is that you have no faith in the God of the bible and so any explanations concerning his word seems to be foolishness. So be it.

[danielost]

As I have politely requested previously, pick up (and read) a dictionary or use some form of "spellcheck," Otherwise, you are babbling.

The rules state no comment on a persons spelling or grammer. I know I spell badly I do the best I can.

[+and-then]

The rules state no comment on a persons spelling or grammer. I know I spell badly I do the best I can.

You are correct danielost and it was rude.

[+joc]

The Palestinians are, and always have been, residents of the nation now known as the State of Israel. Do you know how many thousands of homes were confiscated by the Israeli war of Independence? (1948).

I didn't think so.

Go back to your Palmyra find. . . .

Go crawl back under your anti-semitic rock. . . .

[Yamato]

Go crawl back under your anti-semitic rock. . . .

FAIL

[buckskin scout]

Go crawl back under your anti-semitic rock. . . .

I detest when people pull the anti-semitic card when discussing Zionism and Jewish nationalism.

The Palestinians are truly an invisible people, these people lost their historic homes and livelihoods.

With that in mind, why don't we give France back to the Gauls/Celts/Irish? Or why don't we give Turkey back to the Greeks and rise Constantinople once again?

Sad thing is the Jewish hegemony lasted about a 100 years and additional 200 under the divided Kingdoms. 7,000 years worth of human prehistory and history and the Jews had an hegemony over all for 300 years.

And when they returned from the Babylonian exile, Judah's territory was about 40 miles wide and 25 miles deep in 440 BCE, and that was much smaller than the former divided Kingdom of Judah. Now it was essentially the area around Jerusalem, which the Jews were rebuilding. As part of the Persian Empire Judah enjoyed extensive religious and cultural freedom. BUT many, perhaps most, chose not to return there but stayed in Babylon.

40 miles X 25 miles!

[jeem]

"Palestine" never really existed as a nation. After the Ottomans lost it in 1918 and after the split with Trans-Jordan, it became unorganized territory. That is the furthest you can be from nation status.It was more just a descriptive label to a region. "The Levant" was probably more meaningful. But in history, what nation/culture hadn't absorbed or expunged weaker cultures to be the nation it is today? The spread of Islam is one of those. Rome did it. Spain did it. The US did it. Jordan did it. The list is endless. The plight of the Palestinian is nothing special. It is just part of the advancement of civilization.

Israel never existed as a nation before WW2.

By any possibility do you mean that Israel is committing genocide on the Palestinian and not the constant threat Israel faces from her neighbors? If that is the case, where are the piles of bodies in mass graves like we saw in Iraq? Where are the bodies floating down the river like we saw in Rwanda? Where are the piles of ashes from the ovens? Chasing off an unwanted population is not genocide. Yes, they will push back but it won't be sustainable for much longer. The people will move on and be absorbed into neighboring cultures. That is how these things work out.

Of course Israel is committing genocide by bombing Palestinian school,stadium killing innocent women and children,making GAZA the largest prison by disconnecting it from the rest of the world.It is a slow motion genocide

The threat Israel is facing is a brainwash.

If they give the Palestinian their rightful place there will be no threat

Edited November 28, 2013 by jeem

[jeem]

The palestinians are from jordan. Isreal has offered them both the gaza strip and thw west bank.

Really! the offering means we can build settlement in your land without taking any permission,we can destroy your house if we don't like it ,and we can take that land whenever we wish

All the palestinians have to do is stop trying to kill isreali citizens.

Don't you think it should be reversed.

All the Israeli have to do is stop slow motion genocide and there will be no threat.

Edited November 28, 2013 by jeem

[buckskin scout]

Israel never existed as a nation before WW2.

Of course Israel is committing genocide by bombing Palestinian school,stadium killing innocent women and children,making GAZA the largest prison by disconnecting it from the rest of the world.

The threat Israel is facing is a brainwash.

If they give the Palestinian their rightful place there will be no threat

They occupy the West Bank in which they dominate over the Palestinians under South African-like bantustans, eventually the Jews are going to become increasingly the minority in the region because Palestinians have a higher rate of birth and larger families. Then what?

Not enough Jews want to pick up their bags and move there, achieving greater success in the States and elsewhere, instead of becoming citizens in a war zone that is walling itself off from its neighbors. In other words, the Zionist Aaliyah is failing, about half of the world's whole Jewish population is living in the United States.

The whole Zionist program is to establish a Jewish state but guarantee that it remains a Jewish state by granting Jews the sole right of return to uphold a Jewish majority in order to remain a Jewish state. As it stands there are 6 million Jews in Israel compared to 2 million Arabs in Israel.

Edited November 28, 2013 by GoSC

[DeWitz]

Of course the time is now. Why would a person of faith NOT want to see the day to day events as a herald of a better time in this sick, dying world? Your two options for me are pretty depressing, either I'm an idiot or a sadist. In your world cannot a person comment on what they believe without being held responsible personally for that thing when it comes about? I believe the sun will rise tomorrow but I have done nothing to make it do so. Only an evil person would want to see others suffer and die. Does it occur to you that if by speaking out about this, maybe someone will read, think and seek to know the Lord better - perhaps escaping these horrors? I think the root issue for you is that you have no faith in the God of the bible and so any explanations concerning his word seems to be foolishness. So be it.

Don't tell me what or in whom I have faith.

What arrogance.

You are entitled to your opinions. I've never said otherwise.

[DeWitz]

First of all I have no authority in any of these matters But my point is that whether one believes in these prophecies or not, THESE people are being guided by them. If you take the time to educate yourself on some of the commentaries of these prophecies it will amaze you the way the daily news is lining up with things that were written about over two millennia ago. Leaving faith aside, that alone is pretty interesting and should be thought provoking to any person with an open mind. Psalm 83 speaks of all the nations immediately surrounding Israel coming against her people to destroy them so that the "name of Israel is remembered no more". And Isaiah tells of Damascus being turned into a heap of ruins in a single day. Iran (Persia) joins a confederation including Turkey and a nation to the extreme north of Israel along with some African nations and they come against Israel to "take a spoil". They are utterly destroyed.

Believing these days is less and less about faith and more and more about humility.

You are buying into Hal Lindsay, Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye and their apostasy--playing God. "No one knows the day or the time; not even the Son--only the Father." God help you.

Read your Bible, AT.

[buckskin scout]

First of all I have no authority in any of these matters But my point is that whether one believes in these prophecies or not, THESE people are being guided by them. If you take the time to educate yourself on some of the commentaries of these prophecies it will amaze you the way the daily news is lining up with things that were written about over two millennia ago. Leaving faith aside, that alone is pretty interesting and should be thought provoking to any person with an open mind. Psalm 83 speaks of all the nations immediately surrounding Israel coming against her people to destroy them so that the "name of Israel is remembered no more". And Isaiah tells of Damascus being turned into a heap of ruins in a single day. Iran (Persia) joins a confederation including Turkey and a nation to the extreme north of Israel along with some African nations and they come against Israel to "take a spoil". They are utterly destroyed.

Believing these days is less and less about faith and more and more about humility.

More prophetic war-mongering from AT. The Psalmist is merely listing off all of the enemies of Biblical Israel while imploring God to confound her enemies. 2 Kings 15:19; 1 Sam. 4:1; 1 Chron. 20:10; 2 Chron. 5:10; and Esther 3:6.

And what about the passages in Psalm 87 and Isaiah 19:23-25? When have these two passages ever been fulfilled? Because they haven't! Something to think about "Mr Lindsay".

[Space Commander Travis]

Of course the time is now. Why would a person of faith NOT want to see the day to day events as a herald of a better time in this sick, dying world? Your two options for me are pretty depressing, either I'm an idiot or a sadist. In your world cannot a person comment on what they believe without being held responsible personally for that thing when it comes about? I believe the sun will rise tomorrow but I have done nothing to make it do so. Only an evil person would want to see others suffer and die. Does it occur to you that if by speaking out about this, maybe someone will read, think and seek to know the Lord better - perhaps escaping these horrors? I think the root issue for you is that you have no faith in the God of the bible and so any explanations concerning his word seems to be foolishness. So be it.

Are you saying that any person of faith would see things in this apocalyptic end times fashion? Not every branch of Christianity sees things in that way, not every person of Christian or any other faith (yes, even some Muslims!) would want to see things as a herald of the end times.

[DeWitz]

Thank you, Colonel. I am, as these threads call me, a "man of faith." AT wants to determine my faith, or dismiss it.

I dismiss AT.

If you, Col., or any Tom, Dick or Harriet want to pronounce your opinions on these threads--fine by me.

Just don't go reading the minds of Benny in Israel or Rouani in Iran, and then tell us what they are thinking.

Arrogance.

[danielost]

Really! the offering means we can build settlement in your land without taking any permission,we can destroy your house if we don't like it ,and we can take that land whenever we wish

Don't you think it should be reversed.

All the Israeli have to do is stop slow motion genocide and there will be no threat.

No, I don't think it should be reversed. If isreal wants to kill all palistinions, what is stopping them.

Isreal tries very hard not to attack civilians up to and including telling when and where they will attack.

But, on the reverse we have murder bombers attacking grade schools.

[danielost]

Really! the offering means we can build settlement in your land without taking any permission,we can destroy your house if we don't like it ,and we can take that land whenever we wish

Don't you think it should be reversed.

All the Israeli have to do is stop slow motion genocide and there will be no threat.

This is for the top half. All governments have the right to take your land and destroy your house. Even the founding fathers knew this. That is why the government must pay you if they decide to take your house or property.

[+joc]

I detest when people pull the anti-semitic card when discussing Zionism and Jewish nationalism.

The Palestinians are truly an invisible people, these people lost their historic homes and livelihoods.

With that in mind, why don't we give France back to the Gauls/Celts/Irish? Or why don't we give Turkey back to the Greeks and rise Constantinople once again?

Sad thing is the Jewish hegemony lasted about a 100 years and additional 200 under the divided Kingdoms. 7,000 years worth of human prehistory and history and the Jews had an hegemony over all for 300 years.

And when they returned from the Babylonian exile, Judah's territory was about 40 miles wide and 25 miles deep in 440 BCE, and that was much smaller than the former divided Kingdom of Judah. Now it was essentially the area around Jerusalem, which the Jews were rebuilding. As part of the Persian Empire Judah enjoyed extensive religious and cultural freedom. BUT many, perhaps most, chose not to return there but stayed in Babylon.

40 miles X 25 miles!

Thanks for the history lesson. it is fine to feel sympathy, empathy for the Palestinians...but you haven't mentioned ..their...history. In the last several decades it has been a history of 'Destroy Israel'. A history of strapping on bombs and blowing up innocent men, women and children. A history of launching rockets against them. A history of violence against Israel...it has never been about a Palestinian State..it has always been the Destruction of Israel. There is no 'anti-semitic' card being played. One doesn't have to love Israel...but if one supports the Palestinians in their fight with Israel, one chooses that label by default.