The Universe Isn't Expanding...It's Rotating

[+joc]

I'm sure it isn't an original thought...only original to me. I haven't researched it...at all.

From time to time I feel the need to arise very early and bath. And so...about 4:30 am...setting in a hot bath, by candle light, drinking coffee, listening to Merlin, The Heart of Rakii...raising a huge swath of Bubbles in my hands, looking at the candle light through the bubbles...blowing into the bubbles, creating holes in the bubble structure...and turning the bubbles this way and that...

...it suddenly occurred to me that the Universe isn't expanding at all. The Universe must be rotating. Why wouldn't it be...everything else is. Electrons orbit a nucleus. The planets rotate around stars. The Galaxies themselves are rotating. It just makes sense to me that the Universe is also in a Rotation.

If the Universe is rotating...then the light we see from distant stars might not be what we think it is unless we take into account the rotation of the Universe.

There might not have been a big bang. Just as there are tornadoes swirling inside of Hurricanes...perhaps there is 'swirling' dark matter (i.e. space) which from time to time, encounters the right ingredients to form stars...perhaps the Universe never had a Big Dramatic Boom of a beginning...just a continuing phasing in and phasing out of star systems?

On a quantum level...I've read that sub-atomic particles phase in and out of existense....

...from a Fractal point of view...wouldn't something similar be happening on the larger scale of a rotating Universe?

Your thoughts are welcome....

[Leonardo]

What's it rotating relative to?

[seeder]

Is the Universe rotating?

http://www.earlyuniverse.org/is-the-universe-rotating/

[Taun]

If it were rotating, wouldn't it be impossible to tell unless you could get outside of it and measure the rotation against whatever is out there?... And since we can't get outside

of the Universe, we will never be able to tell...

Besides, the if we were rotating, there would be much more "blue shift" of light as everything "behind" us in the spin would appear to be approaching... As I understand it

the vast majority of objects in space (outside of our galaxy) is red shifted...

Edited November 27, 2013 by Taun

[seeder]

But we know the Moon is moving away from us...only a couple inches a year...but...its moving away..

[Bendy Demon]

If it were rotating, wouldn't it be impossible to tell unless you could get outside of it and measure the rotation against whatever is out there?...

I am not sure that is entirely accurate.

Wasn't it Galileo who discovered our planet revolved around the sun and not the other way around? He wasn't able to get outside our solar system much less the planet yet he found out.

It is an interesting theory, our "universe" rotating and all but in order to even go further you'd have to do what Leonardo said and discover first what it is rotating around. There would have to be a point where the "axis" is.

But everything seems to be rotating around other things, I read that we are actually part of a binary star system and that our sun "revolves" around another star. I think the same is said of our galaxy..maybe this applies to all celestial objects.

But the universe as a whole? I am not so sure considering the rate at which other bodies revolve are all different PLUS the "universe" is merely a collective term, I am not so sure it is a singular thing onto itself.

P.S: I am not a scientist, obviously so if I sound stupid, that's why. Plus I haven't had my daily coffee yet.

[Taun]

I am not sure that is entirely accurate.

Wasn't it Galileo who discovered our planet revolved around the sun and not the other way around? He wasn't able to get outside our solar system much less the planet yet he found out.

It is an interesting theory, our "universe" rotating and all but in order to even go further you'd have to do what Leonardo said and discover first what it is rotating around. There would have to be a point where the "axis" is.

But everything seems to be rotating around other things, I read that we are actually part of a binary star system and that our sun "revolves" around another star. I think the same is said of our galaxy..maybe this applies to all celestial objects.

But the universe as a whole? I am not so sure considering the rate at which other bodies revolve are all different PLUS the "universe" is merely a collective term, I am not so sure it is a singular thing onto itself.

P.S: I am not a scientist, obviously so if I sound stupid, that's why. Plus I haven't had my daily coffee yet.

True... but he could see out of the solar system... and could thus measure the movements of the Earth and the sun against distant star fields...

[seeder]

ps... the Milky way rotates..

[Bendy Demon]

True... but he could see out of the solar system... and could thus measure the movements of the Earth and the sun against distant star fields...

Yes. This is what I was trying to say but did a poor job of it. Galileo had reference points and was able to track them in comparison to other objects.

ps... the Milky way rotates..

Yup. Also doesn't it too rotate around another galaxy or something?

[Taun]

Yes. This is what I was trying to say but did a poor job of it. Galileo had reference points and was able to track them in comparison to other objects.

Yup. Also doesn't it too rotate around another galaxy or something?

I know it interacts with the other twenty or so "minor" galaxies around us (also Andromeda)... but I'm not sure if they rotate around each other, or if the smaller ones rotate around us (sometimes Through us)...

Edited November 27, 2013 by Taun

[Bendy Demon]

I suppose, in a sense, all celestial bodies rotate around something else. The nature of gravity I suppose.

[seeder]

I suppose, in a sense, all celestial bodies rotate around something else. The nature of gravity I suppose.

By definition, anything that has an orbit....rotates

[Bendy Demon]

By definition, anything that has an orbit....rotates

HAHAHAHA! Yeah, sorry. I guess that did sound kind of stupid.

[+joc]

What's it rotating relative to?

What is a galaxy's rotation relative to?

If it were rotating, wouldn't it be impossible to tell unless you could get outside of it and measure the rotation against whatever is out there?... And since we can't get outside

of the Universe, we will never be able to tell...

Besides, the if we were rotating, there would be much more "blue shift" of light as everything "behind" us in the spin would appear to be approaching... As I understand it

the vast majority of objects in space (outside of our galaxy) is red shifted...

We haven't seen the edge of the Universe so it is impossible to look outside of it...to see...however...

Blue shift vs red shift would be an irrelevant argument, would it not, given that if the Universe is rotating, we are all rotating together...?

[StarMountainKid]

Google 'Godel Metric' or the Wikipedia entry. Looking around in a rotating universe, things would look different than in our universe. Looking in one direction, for instance, one would see oneself at an earlier time. Such a universe would also contain closed time-like curves which would allow time travel.

[Leonardo]

What is a galaxy's rotation relative to?

The galactic 'centre', or axis of rotation. This can be identified through examination of the proper motion of all objects in that galaxy.

However, the universe is recognised, via relativity, as having no 'centre'. So it cannot have an axis around which it, or all the objects in it, rotates.

[+joc]

The galactic 'centre', or axis of rotation. This can be identified through examination of the proper motion of all objects in that galaxy.

However, the universe is recognised, via relativity, as having no 'centre'. So it cannot have an axis around which it, or all the objects in it, rotates.

Makes sense. I'll go with that for now.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

Isnt there a black hole at the center of our galaxy that our galaxy rotates around? Also what about the things that are way to far out in space to attract other objects, do they rotate to?

[+joc]

Isnt there a black hole at the center of our galaxy that our galaxy rotates around? Also what about the things that are way to far out in space to attract other objects, do they rotate to?

There really isn't a 'way to far out in space'. As far as the Hubble Space Telescope can see...Galaxies are endless...and they are all spinning.

Edited November 28, 2013 by joc

[taniwha]

Joc,

Let me start by saying, Eureka!

Playing with bubbles can and will solve the mysteries of the universe, it is a favourite past-time of theoretical physicists and a practical model for their thinking.

So... Does the universe rotate? Put simply....

[FlyingAngel]

The center of the Big Bang of course. And then years later the black hole in the center will pull everything together and make the universe to shrink. It will expand, shrink, expand shrink infinitely like a human heart.

[White Crane Feather]

I'm sure it isn't an original thought...only original to me. I haven't researched it...at all.

From time to time I feel the need to arise very early and bath. And so...about 4:30 am...setting in a hot bath, by candle light, drinking coffee, listening to Merlin, The Heart of Rakii...raising a huge swath of Bubbles in my hands, looking at the candle light through the bubbles...blowing into the bubbles, creating holes in the bubble structure...and turning the bubbles this way and that...

...it suddenly occurred to me that the Universe isn't expanding at all. The Universe must be rotating. Why wouldn't it be...everything else is. Electrons orbit a nucleus. The planets rotate around stars. The Galaxies themselves are rotating. It just makes sense to me that the Universe is also in a Rotation.

If the Universe is rotating...then the light we see from distant stars might not be what we think it is unless we take into account the rotation of the Universe.

There might not have been a big bang. Just as there are tornadoes swirling inside of Hurricanes...perhaps there is 'swirling' dark matter (i.e. space) which from time to time, encounters the right ingredients to form stars...perhaps the Universe never had a Big Dramatic Boom of a beginning...just a continuing phasing in and phasing out of star systems?

On a quantum level...I've read that sub-atomic particles phase in and out of existense....

...from a Fractal point of view...wouldn't something similar be happening on the larger scale of a rotating Universe?

Your thoughts are welcome....

That's a good thought joc. But rotating in what? Itself? or is there a greater universe outside of the rotating universe?

[White Crane Feather]

The galactic 'centre', or axis of rotation. This can be identified through examination of the proper motion of all objects in that galaxy.

However, the universe is recognised, via relativity, as having no 'centre'. So it cannot have an axis around which it, or all the objects in it, rotates.

It rotates around me!!!! No really it does. It also rotates around you.., no really it does!!!

[+joc]

That's a good thought joc. But rotating in what? Itself? or is there a greater universe outside of the rotating universe?

If we can stick to the belief for a moment that there is only one Universe...and this is it...

...is there an end to the dark matter of space? I suggest...no..there is not. It is infinite...there is no...something else...that the Universe could be rotating in. And so...yes...it is rotating inside of itself...but what I'm really thinking...

...let's imagine for a moment that the Universe is 13 Billion Light Years in diameter. Imagine there are 300 Trillion Galaxies. Imagine that there are 3 Galaxy Systems...in each...100 Trillions Galaxies...and imagine that these Galaxy Systems are Rotating. Now imagine that in the Center of these 3 Rotating Galaxy Systems..there is a Rotating Black/White Hole...where the actual Dark Matter is being sucked in and spewed out...spinning much faster than the Galaxy Systems. Imagine that these 3 Galaxy Systems are 'orbiting' this Black/White Hole...

...now, imagine that after 144 Trillion years all three Galaxy Systems have been pulled into the center....no stars...no light...nothing exists...except this swirling hole and then.....suddenly....

...Big Bang...

Edited November 30, 2013 by joc

[Sir Smoke aLot]

Very nice post by OP

That is one thing that we just cant be sure of and still we have alot of 'manpower' and resources being invested into prooving some theory's that are based around partial knowledge.

For me this sounds very viable, but ofcourse as people mention already - around what is it orbiting then, what is central point?

Why would we need central point at all? I mean, if one object like planet Jupiter has very powerful gravity field and affects large area around it, should galaxies and their gravity fields be enough for ethernal gravity dance between galaxies? Maybe they rotate around eachother but those orbits are so large and take too much time to complete for us to even be aware of that happening?