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BiffSplitkins

Adoptive couple returns child

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HAMILTON, Ohio (AP) — An Ohio couple committed a crime when they recently gave child welfare officials a 9-year-old boy they raised from infancy, a prosecutor says.

The parents, who were indicted on misdemeanor counts of nonsupport, allegedly left the boy with children's services after saying he was displaying aggressive behavior and earlier threatened the family with a knife. They were due in a Butler County court on Wednesday. Cleveland Cox, 49, his 52-year-old wife, Lisa, and their attorney, Anthony Vannoy, did not immediately return calls seeking comment.

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How is this a crime? Do the parents of other children that end up in Foster care get charged with crimes?

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Maybe it's because they adopted him as an infant... The laws might be different about that than other foster cases.

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I have no idea what the whole story is, and the parents may well be at fault, But on the other hand, this statement:

"emotionally hurt and confused child is now receiving help that the parents should have gotten for him."

sounds like the rhetoric of someone who has never been in that situation

and filling the article with completely unrelated examples and sympathy stories, doesn't help those parents TO BE HEARD or the child to get the RIGHT help, IF ANY AT ALL

blame the parents, the child's behavior is then not taken seriously enough IF AT ALL

until it is too late and someone possibly gets hurt, or worse

Edited by QuiteContrary
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this just all around sucks for everyone

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the thing is, they adopted the child. that child was theirs, exactly the same as if he had been a biological child. you cannot simply take a child who is causing trouble and drop him on someone else to take care of (ok, so there are a number of people who do, but...) without expecting consequence.

seriously, if the kid had been biological, and the parents had just dropped him off at child welfare services, would people be questioning the charges?

he was adopted and raised from infancy. he is their child. that's how adoption works.

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I really feel for the boy. Yes it was wrong of him to go for a knife and to make threats against his adoptive parents, but as an adoptee myself I know all too well that adoption does not come without great trauma, especially concerning the adoptee and their biological mother. Part of the trauma for the adoptee revolves around rejection, rejection that is felt very early on when the biological mother and her child are separated, and the child is eventually relinquished. This kid is no doubt feeling rejected again and will have even more of a guard up. I wouldn't be surprised if he continues to demonstrate aggressive behaviour wherever he is placed next; not to be cruel, but as a way of communicating his pain the best that he knows how, and to perhaps test his new parents/guardians to see if, they too, give up on him.

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Maybe in the long run this was the best thing for the boy. I mean, if the parents are callous enough to just dump the boy because of their glaring incompetence then they do not deserve the title of "mom" and "dad".

They showed their true colors by demonstrating that they view an adopted child like a piece of furniture, you don't like it so you get rid of it.

If they do that to their adopted child, they will probably do that to their potential biological children.

No..they do not deserve the titles that go along with parenthood.

Edited by Ryu
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There is very little help out there for people who have mentally ill, extremely violent children whether they are adopted or not. What do you do when you've exhausted every option available to you?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/liza-long-parents-of-violent-children-respond_n_2318002.html

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html

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What caused this child to be aggressive and threaten his family with a knife, some thing was said or done to him to cause this behaviour, but kids don't just pick up knives for no reason so he must have felt threatened. By dumping him they should be banned from ever having another adopted child.

Any child who is adopted must feel an awfull rejection from his biological parents and would be insecure feeling that he/she is no longer loved nor wanted and that's a hell of a beginning to start off life.

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So basically you guys think there is no such thing as a mentally ill child, or adult for that matter, unless they have been abused in some way? That is like saying a child is born with Down Syndrome because the mother didn't take care of herself while she was pregnant. Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason. For those of you who have a history of mental illness in their family, that crazy aunt, uncle or grandparent who no one will have anything to do with any longer, I sincerely hope you never have to find out.

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No one is saying this at all. No one is saying there is no such thing as mental illness.

All we are saying is in the case of this boy, if this was an ongoing problem, the parents had plenty of time to seek help but did not, period. Even if it was a one time ordeal you still don't do that.

So what do they do? They dump the kid and walk away. Hell, I couldn't even do that to a pet without feeling guilty and depressed for weeks. (Ok, not quite the same thing but I am trying to make an analogy here albeit a poor one.)

I am sorry if you or your family experienced problems but each situation is a unique case.

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No one is saying this at all. No one is saying there is no such thing as mental illness.

All we are saying is in the case of this boy, if this was an ongoing problem, the parents had plenty of time to seek help but did not, period. Even if it was a one time ordeal you still don't do that.

So what do they do? They dump the kid and walk away. Hell, I couldn't even do that to a pet without feeling guilty and depressed for weeks. (Ok, not quite the same thing but I am trying to make an analogy here albeit a poor one.)

I am sorry if you or your family experienced problems but each situation is a unique case.

I never said anything about my family...no violence at all, thank you. I have been studying psychology since about junior high school because I find it very interesting though, especially in the latter twenty years or so when it comes to school shootings. The point was is that it is often hereditary and children are adopted without full medical or psychological disclosure.

How do you know what they did or didn't do or for how long? What would you do if one of your children was threatening to kill the other younger ones, threatening you or started killing animals? People have exhausted their life savings and every option available to them trying to get help for their children to no avail. Unless you have good insurance there are very few options and even that doesn't last forever. Unless the child has actually harmed someone nothing is done and even then they aren't helped, they are put in the justice system...not in a hospital where they belong.

I thought the link I provided would give people some insight, but I guess I was mistaken.

Edited by Michelle

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You seem to be awfully defensive here.

We are simply talking of this ONE case, not all of them. Don't turn us into your enemies just because we are debating a singular issue that is NOT cut-and-dry, black-and-white...actually none of them are.

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You seem to be awfully defensive here.

We are simply talking of this ONE case, not all of them. Don't turn us into your enemies just because we are debating a singular issue that is NOT cut-and-dry, black-and-white...actually none of them are.

You got all that from me having a different opinion, being able to see both sides and objecting to people vilifying the parents of a possibly severely disturbed child? It seemed to me that it was you who made the situation cut and dried by putting all of the blame on the parents.

And before you say it, no, I don't have any children.

Edited by Michelle

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You got all that from me having a different opinion, being able to see both sides and objecting to people vilifying the parents of a possibly severely disturbed child? It seemed to me that it was you who made the situation cut and dried by putting all of the blame on the parents.

And before you say it, no, I don't have any children.

Well Lady,you just said it all. You don't have Children.That doesn't mean to say that you won't have, good luck in that Dep't. But what I'm getting at is that to understand children you must have first hand knowledge,not read some books on the subject. You can't just dump a child because it is naughty for a while,you have to find out what the problem is,sit them on your knee and discuss why this problem has arisen then find a remedy, sitting them on a "naughty" chair will not solve the problem,especially where other children are involved. I cannot imagine the parents were "Threatened" by a 9 yr old child that's rubbish created by the Parents as an excuse to dump the poor kid.Not forgetting that a 9yr old hasn't got the full vocabulary to express what actually happened and why he picked up a knife in the first place.I have brought up 4 kids to be responsible citizens all with good jobs so please don't start telling me how to control children.Thankyou.
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Well Lady,you just said it all. You don't have Children.That doesn't mean to say that you won't have, good luck in that Dep't. But what I'm getting at is that to understand children you must have first hand knowledge,not read some books on the subject. You can't just dump a child because it is naughty for a while,you have to find out what the problem is,sit them on your knee and discuss why this problem has arisen then find a remedy, sitting them on a "naughty" chair will not solve the problem,especially where other children are involved. I cannot imagine the parents were "Threatened" by a 9 yr old child that's rubbish created by the Parents as an excuse to dump the poor kid.Not forgetting that a 9yr old hasn't got the full vocabulary to express what actually happened and why he picked up a knife in the first place.I have brought up 4 kids to be responsible citizens all with good jobs so please don't start telling me how to control children.Thankyou.

I can say I won't have kids because I can't have any.

How about I leave this to all of the "experts" here who know how to "control" mentally disturbed, schizophrenics or children with intermittent explosive disorder. I can see why there is so little help for these parents and the stigma they face when they finally admit they've done all they can do and their child needs professional help. This is a good example of why so many kids don't get the help they need. People think parents should punish them more severely and more often and they will "straighten out".

People call it child abuse if someone doesn't take their kids to a doctor for a physical illness, but when it comes to a psychological disorder it's swept under the rug. Nice!

Good day...

Edited by Michelle

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Michelle, Hi, ref your last post, I have read all there is on this case and nowhere does it mention that the child is Schizophrenic, mentally disturbed or has any kind of mental problem so I don't understand why you keep bringing this up.Its my guess that the child was in some way abused, either physically or mentally, and he retaliated, in the only way he knew how to, being a little boy with no other means of defence like an Adult would have. When you talk to a child you don't stand over them and look down as that puts them on the defence,as to them you are huge,you get on their eye level which isn't hard to do, by bending your knees or sitting down.I don't think these people acted like a mum and dad but treated the boy as an object, to be fed and watered as a pet,Not a child,and when that didn't work to their satisfaction they wanted a new toy. I hope they are not allowed to ever repeat the process as they aren't fit to be parents, No Way....No Offence meant its the way I see the issue.

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Geez Michelle - you really don't get the point! My middle (biological!) child was verbally and physically abusive, violent and a downright terror on society. In a 3 year period of hell my husband and I would've loved to hand them over to someone else, but you don't do that when you have committed to a child. Therefore we worked with the school, a counsellor, and the medical world both physical and mental and now we have a well adjusted adult who thanks us for sticking by them and having faith. You do that with biological and adopted children. There may be an argument for returning a foster child like an unwanted puppy especially if they were older and a threat to your current family. Try actually reading what people say instead of blowing off on one!

Edited by MacBeth
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Michelle, Hi, ref your last post, I have read all there is on this case and nowhere does it mention that the child is Schizophrenic, mentally disturbed or has any kind of mental problem so I don't understand why you keep bringing this up.Its my guess that the child was in some way abused, either physically or mentally, and he retaliated,

That's just it...it is your guess. The information provided is very biased and I don't think assumptions should be made about such a serious accusation without thoroughly evaluating the child. Especially if he may be placed in a home along with other children.

I was simply trying to show there could be another side to the story.

Edited by Michelle

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That's just it...it is your guess. The information provided is very biased and I don't think assumptions should be made about such a serious accusation without thoroughly evaluating the child. Especially if he may be placed in a home along with other children.

Sorry but it is also MY GUESS that you just Don't like children,and that you are saying the Parents are right, WELL I DO FEEL SORRY FOR YOU.

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Sorry but it is also MY GUESS that you just Don't like children,and that you are saying the Parents are right, WELL I DO FEEL SORRY FOR YOU.

:P Don't feel sorry for me. I can do volunteer work with special needs children, come home and not have to share my toys.

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I completely understand and don't blame his adoptive parents for getting stressed out. Any parent in their right mind (biological or adoptive) would feel uneasy if their child came at them with a knife. I stated in my first comment that he was wrong for going that far. However I also understand that something must have seriously triggered the boy into acting as he did. He isn't an evil being who set out to cause harm and for no good reason. Adoption creates a traumatised baby and for all sorts of reasons. For someone who is traumatised, it is very difficult (impossible in the beginning) for one to open up about how they're feeling, and especially in a healthy way. This would explain why the boy in this case lashed out. There could be more to it which isn't necessarily the adoptive parents fault, like the boy not feeling like he fits into the adoptive family because there is no natural connection, and the adoptive parents not looking deeper into why he's behaving the way he is, because they may not even be aware that they are dealing with a child who has endured a lot of stress from the very beginning of their life. Sure they will have been told why the child was put up for adoption, but many seem to think that once the adoption is final and the kid is handed over to the new family, that the heartache ends there; it does not. Also. It is all well and good for the parents to seek out professional help of some kind, but it is no quick fix, and it definitely won't be of any benefit if the parents themselves don't thoroughly try to understand and embrace the child. Said child is in their care after all. To be the best parent that you can be to your biological child, you have to wholeheartedly devote yourself to them, but even moreso where an adopted child is concerned.

For those who might be interested in the reality of adoption, there are two videos on YouTube that are well worth watching; Paul Sunderland's lecture on adoption, and Nancy Verrier's interview regarding the primal wound. If you couldn't care less that is fine. I'd just like to open the mind and eyes of some people.

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My goodness the vitriol about the possibility of a different side of the story.

I've read articles in the past about children who were a lot more than "naughty" and the parents tried to get help from them for quite a while but had very limited success. When someone in the household is violently mentally ill, you try to get them help, but also have to preserve the safety of the rest of the household. What do parents do if they do not have the money to institutionalize a child if needed? Crouch down at their level and talk to them nicely? I bet that has no affect on mental illness.

As an aside, I find SO many people have no idea about mental illness or disability. I have had people who knew my son was disabled tell me I should just punish him more or spank him when he acted in accordance with his disability. You can't punish a mental illness out of a person. It doesn't matter from what altitude you speak.

Ambiguous articles purposefully play on emotions without disclosing all the facts. How wonderful to be able to discuss ALL possible sides of the story.

And just my opinion, you don't need to have children to have common sense and understanding of human behavior.

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Thank you, Purplos. :)

It's nice to hear an opinion from a parent with real experience.

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