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davros of skaro

Theist Comments the Series

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Enjoy, and check out the other episodes.

Christian;

Muslim;

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I don't know if the video compiler/creator ever created a YouTube video titled "Stupid Atheist Comments", so let me start by helping him out with a couple of quotes:

Disclaimer: I don't actually think they are "stupid" so much as they are inaccurate - but since the video creator uses this term, I know he won't mind me applying the same term to his own words (in case you aren't aware, these quotes are from the narrator of these videos)

"Stupid Atheist Comment #1"- Isn't faith simply belief without evidence?

No, this is simply wrong. When Creationists say "evolution is just a theory" everyone else does a facepalm and distinguishes between a Scientific Theory and a guess. But for some reason, this atheist wants to move the goalposts and demands that Christians conform to his definition of faith, rather than how it is used in biblical terms. It's more akin to Trust, the way Christians see . If your wife/husband/parents tell you "I love you", you have faith that they are sincere. Is this faith simply belief without evidence? No, we have years of experiences to confirm that they love us (or else they've been abusive and we equally can use this evidence to confirm their insincerity). Either way, we use evidence to come to a faith-based decision, it's not "belief without evidence"

"Stupid Atheist Comment #2"- (The Bible and Qu'ran are) really just useless for anything except literary study!

The Bible has influenced our world for nearly 2000 years (longer, if you think only of the Old Testament), while the Qu'ran hahasnfluenced our world for close to 1400 years. Entire civilizations have risen and fallen in the wake of this influence. Art, architecture, music, sociology, politics, culture studies, and more. Knowing the history and influence of these religious teachings can greatly benefit many other fields of study besides that of literary study. It's myopic to relegate these texts solely to a limited field, regardless of one's personal opinion on the validity of these texts. I may not believe the Qu'ran, but that's not to say I can't appreciate it as a key factor in Arabic civilisation, or modern politics.

Edited by Paranoid Android
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Unfortunately certain kinds of atheists ( not all) are not the least bit logical. I prefer atheists like suskind and green. They are not even concerned with the question they are just following their nose. To me that is much more honest. As are many theists.

Any stupid agnostic videos?

Edited by White Crane Feather
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Gotta say Dawkins and the label "Brights", if not stupid was definitely not very well thought out.

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I don't know if the video compiler/creator ever created a YouTube video titled "Stupid Atheist Comments", so let me start by helping him out with a couple of quotes:

Disclaimer: I don't actually think they are "stupid" so much as they are inaccurate - but since the video creator uses this term, I know he won't mind me applying the same term to his own words (in case you aren't aware, these quotes are from the narrator of these videos)

"Stupid Atheist Comment #1"- Isn't faith simply belief without evidence?

No, this is simply wrong. When Creationists say "evolution is just a theory" everyone else does a facepalm and distinguishes between a Scientific Theory and a guess. But for some reason, this atheist wants to move the goalposts and demands that Christians conform to his definition of faith, rather than how it is used in biblical terms. It's more akin to Trust, the way Christians see . If your wife/husband/parents tell you "I love you", you have faith that they are sincere. Is this faith simply belief without evidence? No, we have years of experiences to confirm that they love us (or else they've been abusive and we equally can use this evidence to confirm their insincerity). Either way, we use evidence to come to a faith-based decision, it's not "belief without evidence"

"Stupid Atheist Comment #2"- (The Bible and Qu'ran are) really just useless for anything except literary study!

The Bible has influenced our world for nearly 2000 years (longer, if you think only of the Old Testament), while the Qu'ran hahasnfluenced our world for close to 1400 years. Entire civilizations have risen and fallen in the wake of this influence. Art, architecture, music, sociology, politics, culture studies, and more. Knowing the history and influence of these religious teachings can greatly benefit many other fields of study besides that of literary study. It's myopic to relegate these texts solely to a limited field, regardless of one's personal opinion on the validity of these texts. I may not believe the Qu'ran, but that's not to say I can't appreciate it as a key factor in Arabic civilisation, or modern politics.

faith

fāTH/

noun

noun: faith


  1. 1.

    complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

    "this restores one's faith in politicians"

    synonyms:
    ,
    ,
    ,
    ; More

    , hopefulness,

    "he justified his boss's faith in him"

    antonyms:


  2. 2.

    strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

    synonyms:
    ,
    ,
    ,
    , (religious) persuasion, (religious) belief,
    ,
    ,
    ,
    More

    "she gave her life for her faith"

1) The belief in the love of one's own parents is in an entirely different context of an imaginary friend that judges you.

2) For those without a faith based bias will just see the Bible as the words of men, and just men which is for study.

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faith

fāTH/

noun

noun: faith


  1. 1.

    complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

    "this restores one's faith in politicians"

    synonyms:
    ,
    ,
    ,
    ; More

    , hopefulness,

    "he justified his boss's faith in him"

    antonyms:


  2. 2.

    strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

    synonyms:
    ,
    ,
    ,
    , (religious) persuasion, (religious) belief,
    ,
    ,
    ,
    More

    "she gave her life for her faith"

1) The belief in the love of one's own parents is in an entirely different context of an imaginary friend that judges you.

The definition you provided describes faith as "complete trust or confidence in someone or something". Does that not apply to love for parents as equally as it does for an imaginary friend? The faith may be misplaced, but it is nevertheless real. And is in no way "belief without evidence"!

2) For those without a faith based bias will just see the Bible as the words of men, and just men which is for study.

I agree. How does this refute anything which I stated? If you believe a text divine, you'll approach it differently to someone who does not. But that doesn't relegate the texts only to the field of literary study. To suggest such is a "stupid" thing to do. Edited by Paranoid Android

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I don't know if the video compiler/creator ever created a YouTube video titled "Stupid Atheist Comments", so let me start by helping him out with a couple of quotes:

Disclaimer: I don't actually think they are "stupid" so much as they are inaccurate - but since the video creator uses this term, I know he won't mind me applying the same term to his own words (in case you aren't aware, these quotes are from the narrator of these videos)

"Stupid Atheist Comment #1"- Isn't faith simply belief without evidence?

No, this is simply wrong. When Creationists say "evolution is just a theory" everyone else does a facepalm and distinguishes between a Scientific Theory and a guess. But for some reason, this atheist wants to move the goalposts and demands that Christians conform to his definition of faith, rather than how it is used in biblical terms. It's more akin to Trust, the way Christians see . If your wife/husband/parents tell you "I love you", you have faith that they are sincere. Is this faith simply belief without evidence? No, we have years of experiences to confirm that they love us (or else they've been abusive and we equally can use this evidence to confirm their insincerity). Either way, we use evidence to come to a faith-based decision, it's not "belief without evidence"

@Davros; PA is clearly a thinking Theist who prefers the definition 1 to definition 2 to define what faith means to him. Plenty of believers have had experiences that provide them with evidence supporting their world view. Nobody can demand that a person base their world view on any particular thing, and frankly people who try to do so are obnoxious. Personally I have had experiences that don't quite fit the purely materialistic world view, if I followed them it would lead me to some blend of Animism/Totemism/Genetic Memory.

However, I think you have to admit that certain people do take the second definition and believe things despite evidence to the contrary. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Jews were slaves in Egypt, to believe the story of Exodus literally is to take it on faith (definition 2). On the contrary, they were slaves in Babylon and were freed by Cyrus the Great, not Moses.

Edited by Almagest

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@Davros; PA is clearly a thinking Theist who prefers the definition 1 to definition 2 to define what faith means to him. Plenty of believers have had experiences that provide them with evidence supporting their world view. Nobody can demand that a person base their world view on any particular thing, and frankly people who try to do so are obnoxious. Personally I have had experiences that don't quite fit the purely materialistic world view, if I followed them it would lead me to some blend of Animism/Totemism/Genetic Memory.

However, I think you have to admit that certain people do take the second definition and believe things despite evidence to the contrary. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Jews were slaves in Egypt, to believe the story of Exodus literally is to take it on faith (definition 2). On the contrary, they were slaves in Babylon and were freed by Cyrus the Great, not Moses.

More to the point, when the Bible uses the term "faith" it refers to the first definition listed. Not a single place in the entire Bible is a person accredited with faith for doing nothing but "believing".

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The definition you provided describes faith as "complete trust or confidence in someone or something". Does that not apply to love for parents as equally as it does for an imaginary friend? The faith may be misplaced, but it is nevertheless real. And is in no way "belief without evidence"!

As an experiment I prayed to myself to find $20.00 on my nightly walks.Six months later I found an envelope with $40.00 in it.I see this as sheer coincidence, and an interesting outcome to my experiment for sure.Someone praying to a deity with a later double result would think they were rewarded for there persistent faith.What evidence do you have that your God loves you other than that you believe you picked the right doctrine out of many, and interpreted signs as not coincidence?

I agree. How does this refute anything which I stated? If you believe a text divine, you'll approach it differently to someone who does not. But that doesn't relegate the texts only to the field of literary study. To suggest such is a "stupid" thing to do.

Man made texts of ancient origin is of literary study, and to see it as divine is tragedy.

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@Davros; PA is clearly a thinking Theist who prefers the definition 1 to definition 2 to define what faith means to him. Plenty of believers have had experiences that provide them with evidence supporting their world view. Nobody can demand that a person base their world view on any particular thing, and frankly people who try to do so are obnoxious. Personally I have had experiences that don't quite fit the purely materialistic world view, if I followed them it would lead me to some blend of Animism/Totemism/Genetic Memory.

However, I think you have to admit that certain people do take the second definition and believe things despite evidence to the contrary. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Jews were slaves in Egypt, to believe the story of Exodus literally is to take it on faith (definition 2). On the contrary, they were slaves in Babylon and were freed by Cyrus the Great, not Moses.

Of course a believer will take the circular reasoning of definition #1, and to do otherwise is risky.

There is a difference between seeking what is beyond than excepting with tunnelvision something that has been proven to be false.When one has unique experiences beyond the material?Do you not see the mindclasp it would be to close the door on one possibility wether it be extreme skepticism, or religious dogma?Just because one day man opens the veil over are now physicalverse does not make bronze age myth makers the default position.

Yes Cyrus the Great was seen as the Messiah at that time too.

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As an experiment I prayed to myself to find $20.00 on my nightly walks.Six months later I found an envelope with $40.00 in it.I see this as sheer coincidence, and an interesting outcome to my experiment for sure.Someone praying to a deity with a later double result would think they were rewarded for there persistent faith.What evidence do you have that your God loves you other than that you believe you picked the right doctrine out of many, and interpreted signs as not coincidence?

I have no "empirical" evidence, but plenty of personal experience (long before I ever was a Christan or prayed to get stuff, even now God's more than just a genie who grants wishes). But that is actually irrelevant. The definition of faith is "complete trust/confidence in someone or something". If I put my trust in Barney the Dinosaur, then that's what I trust. It may be misguided, but it is trust nonetheless. Thus the "stupid" comment from the video that attempts to define faith as "belief without evidence".

Man made texts of ancient origin is of literary study, and to see it as divine is tragedy.

That wasn't my point! I don't see the Qu'ran as divine, yet in order to understand why some Muslims are awesome people, while others blow themselves up, even though they use the same text for their belief, I can look at the Qu'ran in a broader cultural context then simply literary study. Same with the Bible. I do believe it divine, but even if I didn't I can study history and find our how the Bible influenced European culture through the Middle Ages, or use the Bible to help better understand the history of the Reformation, or its effect in composing mediaeval music, or in modern times it can be used in a variety of social studies - why some churches ordain women and others don't, why some Christians pray for the families of dead soldiers while others picket those funerals with "thank God for IED's" signs.

It's way more than just literary study. It's cultural studies, sociology, political studies, music, poetry, art, architecture, and much more if you wish to go into it.

Edited by Paranoid Android

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I have no "empirical" evidence, but plenty of personal experience (long before I ever was a Christan or prayed to get stuff, even now God's more than just a genie who grants wishes). But that is actually irrelevant. The definition of faith is "complete trust/confidence in someone or something". If I put my trust in Barney the Dinosaur, then that's what I trust. It may be misguided, but it is trust nonetheless. Thus the "stupid" comment from the video that attempts to define faith as "belief without evidence".

Exactly.Your faith is real to you so definition example #1 negates example #2 for you.Speaking of #2 there was a tree in front of office builds in the States that people experienced dripping water.They turned example #2 into #1, and people gathered around the tree believing it was a sign from God, and was a holy sign.When other people tried to explain that it was a form of lice that fed on the tree's sap, and in fact it was excrement that they received.They would get all angry, and dismissive.Another example is people believing they survived cancer through faith, meanwhile the type of cancer they had does have a survivability rate overall

despite belief.

So to me religious faith is example #2 while people under religious faith, and the doctrine most importantly has to be example #1.

That wasn't my point! I don't see the Qu'ran as divine, yet in order to understand why some Muslims are awesome people, while others blow themselves up, even though they use the same text for their belief, I can look at the Qu'ran in a broader cultural context then simply literary study. Same with the Bible. I do believe it divine, but even if I didn't I can study history and find our how the Bible influenced European culture through the Middle Ages, or use the Bible to help better understand the history of the Reformation, or its effect in composing mediaeval music, or in modern times it can be used in a variety of social studies - why some churches ordain women and others don't, why some Christians pray for the families of dead soldiers while others picket those funerals with "thank God for IED's" signs.

It's way more than just literary study. It's cultural studies, sociology, political studies, music, poetry, art, architecture, and much more if you wish to go into it.

My bad.I just used literary as an all encompasing term for the sciences.Like with the Quran for example.An earlier verse is trumpted by a later verse.This is why Muslims will point to the peacefull verse with smiles on their faces, and act out the later violent verse with smiles on their faces.

You made your point, and I have made mine, so enjoy your faith.

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I should gather up a list of stupid Pagan comments and send it off to him. You would not believe the stuff Pagans say. "You are sick because you haven't honored your ancestors enough." "You can get everything you want by willing it to be." "I'm not sick because I don't will myself to be." The list is end less. They are all starting to get old, I bide my time... the pie is ready.

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However, I think you have to admit that certain people do take the second definition and believe things despite evidence to the contrary. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Jews were slaves in Egypt, to believe the story of Exodus literally is to take it on faith (definition 2). On the contrary, they were slaves in Babylon and were freed by Cyrus the Great, not Moses.

Hmm, I have to wonder how ancient Hebrew was found in Egypt then :) It must have been a tourisy passing by...

Richard Steiner, a professor of Semitic languages at Yeshiva University in New York, has deciphered an ancient inscription found in a chamber under a pyramid south of Cairo. The inscription, which uses Egyptian characters to represent early Canaanite or proto-Hebraic speech, had been undeciphered by Egyptologists for nearly a century. Steiner dates the script to a period from the 30th to 25th centuries B.C. because of its similarities to a Semitic text used by Canaanites at the same time ("Egyptian Tomb Inscription May Bear Oldest Proto-Hebrew Text Yet," Associated Press, Jan. 25, 2007).

The inscription is a magic incantation to protect the sarcophagus from a snake invasion. It shows the cultural connections between the inhabitants of Canaan at the time and the Egyptians. The translated Semitic is an archaic example of what later developed into the Phoenician and Hebrew languages.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070129100250.htm

And again:

Most Ancient Hebrew inscriptions have been found in Egypt. This is because the ISHaRaALite (Israelite) slaves graffitied the mines in which they worked. These mines happened to be ideal for the preservation of rock inscriptions - dry and dark. Here is one particular location that has yielded many inscriptions.

This is a History Channel excerpt from the programme The Naked Archaeologist. It shows an Ancient Hebrew inscription that is about 3500 years old. It is situated in an old slave mine called Serabit el-Khadim in the Sinai Peninsula, Egypt.

No evidence whatsoever? ;)

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Exactly.Your faith is real to you so definition example #1 negates example #2 for you.Speaking of #2 there was a tree in front of office builds in the States that people experienced dripping water.They turned example #2 into #1, and people gathered around the tree believing it was a sign from God, and was a holy sign.When other people tried to explain that it was a form of lice that fed on the tree's sap, and in fact it was excrement that they received.They would get all angry, and dismissive.Another example is people believing they survived cancer through faith, meanwhile the type of cancer they had does have a survivability rate overall

despite belief.

So to me religious faith is example #2 while people under religious faith, and the doctrine most importantly has to be example #1.

I use the definition of trust/confidence because that is the biblical definition. No one in the Bible is ever credited for faith because of "believing without evidence". As said, my faith may be misplaced or misguided, but it is not defined as "belief without evidence".

My bad.I just used literary as an all encompasing term for the sciences.Like with the Quran for example.An earlier verse is trumpted by a later verse.This is why Muslims will point to the peacefull verse with smiles on their faces, and act out the later violent verse with smiles on their faces.

You made your point, and I have made mine, so enjoy your faith.

And most Muslims will point to the violent minority with outrage at their use of violence. But you're right, I have made my point.

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Hmm, I have to wonder how ancient Hebrew was found in Egypt then :) It must have been a tourisy passing by...

Richard Steiner, a professor of Semitic languages at Yeshiva University in New York, has deciphered an ancient inscription found in a chamber under a pyramid south of Cairo. The inscription, which uses Egyptian characters to represent early Canaanite or proto-Hebraic speech, had been undeciphered by Egyptologists for nearly a century. Steiner dates the script to a period from the 30th to 25th centuries B.C. because of its similarities to a Semitic text used by Canaanites at the same time ("Egyptian Tomb Inscription May Bear Oldest Proto-Hebrew Text Yet," Associated Press, Jan. 25, 2007).

The inscription is a magic incantation to protect the sarcophagus from a snake invasion. It shows the cultural connections between the inhabitants of Canaan at the time and the Egyptians. The translated Semitic is an archaic example of what later developed into the Phoenician and Hebrew languages.

http://www.scienceda...70129100250.htm

It says quite plainly in that article that it was "The translated Semitic is an archaic example of what later developed into the Phoenician and Hebrew languages." Developed into. A forerunner. It also developed into Phoenician. It also pre-dates the estimated time of Moses by at least twelve hundred years. The Ancient Egyptians took slaves from conquered people as most civilisations did, and certainly did a lot of conquering of Sinai and Phoenicia. It stands to reason that slaves would have used Semitic languages, but they also would have used languages from Numidia, Nubia and Libya.

And again:

Most Ancient Hebrew inscriptions have been found in Egypt. This is because the ISHaRaALite (Israelite) slaves graffitied the mines in which they worked. These mines happened to be ideal for the preservation of rock inscriptions - dry and dark. Here is one particular location that has yielded many inscriptions.

[media=]

[/media]

This is a History Channel excerpt from the programme The Naked Archaeologist. It shows an Ancient Hebrew inscription that is about 3500 years old. It is situated in an old slave mine called Serabit el-Khadim in the Sinai Peninsula, Egypt.

No evidence whatsoever? ;)

The Kingdom of Israel didn't exist until 500 years after that inscription, so how could they be called Israelites or any version like that?

"El save me" could easily have been written by a Canaanite. It was their chief deity. Also what's taking place in that documentary is bad science. He's starting with the conclusion and looking for evidence to fit it, not looking at the evidence and building the conclusion based upon it.

Edited by Almagest
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Hi Almagest,

Just popped in to say that I will be answering your post this weekend, unfortunately my PC went down in flames last night. Virus destroyed my registry.

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I use the definition of trust/confidence because that is the biblical definition. No one

in the Bible is ever credited for faith because of "believing without evidence". As said,

my faith may be misplaced or misguided, but it is not defined as "belief without

evidence".

Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and

divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that

men are without excuse.

And most Muslims will point to the violent minority with outrage at their use of

violence. But you're right, I have made my point.

LOL! You sure have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3ZAxkWzIpk

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Here is the Wiki article for the Documentary "The Exodus Decoded" for a base reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus_Decoded

This article gives Simcha Jacobovici the proper smackdown for the "El save me" inscription.

http://drchris.me/higgaion/?page_id=221

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Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and

divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that

men are without excuse.

What does this have to do with my assertion that faith as described in the Bible is defined as trust/confidence in someone or something?

Or were you quoting that because you agree with me?

Pretty much what I expected. I referred specifically to the violent minority (aka terrorists) and you show a video of Muslims gathering peacefully to say that they believe the Muslim justice system is the best. And while that includes stoning and the like, because they are peaceful Muslims they live alongside their Norwegian neighbours peacefully and accept Norway's justice system. Does that sound like a violent minority? Edited by Paranoid Android
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Belief is a choice made without absolute evidence and sometimes with little or no evidence. Belief cant be made on convincing personal evidence that becomes knowledge Eg I KNOW I will fall if I jump off a roof. But faith is slightly different. It tis more proactive tha belief We choose to take things on faith Eg I invest faith in my wife, and when I was a child I invested faith in my parents.

I have faith that democracy is a productive system of politics and that capitalism is the best working model of economics so far devised.

Every thig we do not know from experience we have to take on faith. But we do not have to believe in everything. If I have enough faith that i can fly, I might chose to jump off a roof even though I know from experience that every time I have done this I have fallen to earth. Faith allows us to try thing s without knowing if they will work. and to keep trying things even if sometimes they do not work. Eventually, it is possible that, when I jump off the roof, I will soar into the air rather than fall to the ground. If I never jump I will never know for sure.

If you have faith that you can move a mountain, you will find a way to do it. If you have no faith you never will, becaues you will never begin the attempt or even consider ways it might be done.

Edited by Mr Walker

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What does this have to do with my assertion that faith as described in the Bible is defined as trust/confidence in someone or something?

Or were you quoting that because you agree with me?

I am just pointing out that the Bible says that Man has no excuse for not believing in it's words, and the evidence for God.

To me the Bible is all about faith with the Bible as the evidence for that faith.Especially the New Testament from Mark 5:34 through John 20:29.To me a closer relationship to God is in having a higher waking state Dopamine level than the average person for one example.

Pretty much what I expected. I referred specifically to the violent minority (aka terrorists) and you show a video of Muslims gathering peacefully to say that they believe the Muslim justice system is the best. And while that includes stoning and the like, because they are peaceful Muslims they live alongside their Norwegian neighbours peacefully and accept Norway's justice system. Does that sound like a violent minority?

When the fertility rate of Muslims in Norway surpass the populace for an Islamic state to happen, then even more peace will flourish.

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I am just pointing out that the Bible says that Man has no excuse for not believing in it's words, and the evidence for God.

To me the Bible is all about faith with the Bible as the evidence for that faith.Especially the New Testament from Mark 5:34 through John 20:29.To me a closer relationship to God is in having a higher waking state Dopamine level than the average person for one example.

When the fertility rate of Muslims in Norway surpass the populace for an Islamic state to happen, then even more peace will flourish.

Not all muslims are members of the Westboro Baptist church.

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I am just pointing out that the Bible says that Man has no excuse for not believing in it's words, and the evidence for God.

To me the Bible is all about faith with the Bible as the evidence for that faith.Especially the New Testament from Mark 5:34 through John 20:29.To me a closer relationship to God is in having a higher waking state Dopamine level than the average person for one example.

When the fertility rate of Muslims in Norway surpass the populace for an Islamic state to happen, then even more peace will flourish.

1- So you have no specific argument against me except innuendo.

2- Any further response moves beyond the "*insert religion* stupid comments" (whether that be atheist, Christian, Muslim, Pagan etc) so I really have nothing more to add.

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What does this have to do with my assertion that faith as described in the Bible is defined as trust/confidence in someone or something?

Hi PA,

Hebrews 11:1: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I totally agree that using your definition, which I agree is the way it is used in most of the Bible, makes this nonsensical; hope/trust is not 'evidence' of squat. But this verse sure seems to try to make it something more than it is; this verse says faith is not just trust/confidence, it is trust/confidence that somehow is also evidence.

Hope all is well!

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