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SpiritWriter

why do people need to clarify thier beliefs

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Often in threads I see:

Although I'm not your traditional Christian

Or

I am not Christian but I think this

Or

I follow Celtic paganism so I think this...

Are we letting our titles think for us?

Can't we be free to think or make a statement without making excuses for how we think or giving credit to an outside source or criticizing another group who we suppose has a "wrong" thinking?

I think we should be able to discuss matters and use other means to source our logic or summations without the use of what our religious title is or is not.

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I think declaring our religious affiliation provides people with at least a minimal understanding of which square on the checkerboard we stand, especially in the religion/spirituality forum.

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Maybe because it's the forum for that sort of thing?

I see people doing the same thing often enough in other areas of UM too, just using different titles, or couching their creds in the manner for that area. Letting folks know where their train of thought is coming from I suppose.

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I can understand using it as a general reference point but it is also putting us and other people in boxes, checkered squares gives the image of opposition and indeed what happens is people feel the need to defend themselves or use their "position" to discredit/fight against others. I just wonder what would happen if that grid were removed and we were all discussing ideas on a blank board, yes we got our ideas from somewhere, but we should be able to justify them by their practiced truths rather than because they are our shield or emblem.

Edited by SpiritWriter

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I think it gives us reason not to consider or attribute worth to what other people, who are not in our group have to say, as well our opinions can not be heard adequately because the label poses as a barrier between us. We can easily say, well he is not in my group, so therefore I am right and he is wrong, when indeed both could be right or wrong or partially both.

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That is not to say learning cannot exist in these parameters, learning exists all the time, but I do think there is really something to be said about being able to discuss matters with our guards a little more lowered and existing as an individual with our own distincts thoughts and also unafraid to let ourselves agree or understand a little more about what others have to share without feeling the need to disagree with them because they have, and we have so boldly declared that we are not like them, that we are better or smarter than them because of our groups. We are all individuals who have ended up where we are because our lives paths, our paths continue and we are a part of each others paths simply because we have come in contact with one another. We choose how that affects, we choose how we view one another. Paths are beautiful and to acknowledge it I think is a matter of being proud, not a negative or egotistical kind of pride, but one of honoring and that is nice. But the flip side is all those things I mentioned. We are all humans, the division really doesn't run that deep.

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I think that a big part of the reason is our own insecurity. It feels good to be able to call yourself a Christian or Buddhist or an Aethiest or what not. Straight away it connects you to another large group of people using the same box. It's also allows a certain amount of laziness. Instead of saying I think x because of this and this and that and explaining your beliefs and opinions you can just say I think x because I'm in this particular group. Straight away it saves you having to explain it or in many cases even having to understand why it is that your group thinks x.

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You know, it's a journey each of us is taking in our own time and own way. Maybe people should do this or should do that, I don't know, that's not my call, but they don't. We do what we do because at the time it feels right for us. The use of self descriptors doesn't necessarily indicate any failing on the part of anyone who does that, or that they should be doing something different. And by virtue of the medium, the length, depth & breadth of any discussion is limited, so we tend to use short-hand. It's useful, as long as everyone remembers it doesn't provide a complete understanding or description of a unique human being they are or we are.

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I was a long time finding a philosophy which met my world view. I am a Reformed Druid which falls into the realm of a modern Earth based Pagan religion. I am interested in the line of what is left of my Celtic heritage, because they left behind some great stories and they are my ancestors. Even when I meet with people who have a similar world view there is great debate over what is really going on. The debate is the best part of being a Reformed Druid. I am happy and proud of what I am. What everyone else is or does with their philosophy or religion I could care less as long as nobody is getting hurt.

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Myself, I'm letting my experiences shape my philosophy and spirituality and inform me, so there isn't really a label that fits where I'm at, although pagan & Wicca are the best fits. FYI, I have Celtic ancestors myself.

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I don't think its bad to say your beliefs to others, I think its nice. I don't like it when its used in a "I am better than you" stance or I am right because of it stance. As far as needing to announce it in discussion, the topic may or may not need you to address that and its kind of nice to be able to articulate your views as an individual with your own thoughts on the matter. Sure they may line up with your overall philosophy but you believe them because of their truth, not because (even though) you learned it through your religion. When we say "I don't care about what others think or believe" it blocks us from all that is available to us.

I did not bring this subject up as a condemnation for those who do this, I have done it myself. But I do think it is interesting to think about from a psychology stand point, (why do we do the things we do?).

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An intelligent discussion is most feasible when both parties have a common point of beginning. Bringing out labels helps to designate a common point, or perhaps, a lack of one.

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An intelligent discussion is most feasible when both parties have a common point of beginning. Bringing out labels helps to designate a common point, or perhaps, a lack of one.

Not always because there are many preconcieved ideas a person has about a certain group. Talking about the ideas without the labels gets to the meat of the discussion without the background noise of what a person thinks they know about the other person.

Edited by SpiritWriter
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I have seen on here many times ..many of you attacking others for their beliefs..and you know it seems to me that there is a lack of really caring about what the person cares about or believes in because many are to busy pushing their own "spiritual agenda"..this is just an observation ..^ popeye just wanted to be the hero and the big cheese ..lol have a wonderful day for truly that is all we have ..this very moment

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I don't think its bad to say your beliefs to others, I think its nice. I don't like it when its used in a "I am better than you" stance or I am right because of it stance. As far as needing to announce it in discussion, the topic may or may not need you to address that and its kind of nice to be able to articulate your views as an individual with your own thoughts on the matter. Sure they may line up with your overall philosophy but you believe them because of their truth, not because (even though) you learned it through your religion. When we say "I don't care about what others think or believe" it blocks us from all that is available to us.

I did not bring this subject up as a condemnation for those who do this, I have done it myself. But I do think it is interesting to think about from a psychology stand point, (why do we do the things we do?).

I guess how open you are depends on how many times you been told you are going to hell, can't read or if you have ever been brainwashed. I don't mind spiritual discussions, I enjoy them, but some people push their point of view to a point of going overboard with them. Believe me, I am surrounded by Baptist, JWs and a few others who have the need to give me a bad time about being a dirt worshiping Druid. My son's in-laws are convinced I am a Satan worshiper and should not be allowed near children. I don't go to family functions where they are included, they have insulted me just one to many times. I am fine with an open discussion, but I don't like being told what I should believe, because it says so in a book or it is what the majority of the population believes.

If at some point I throw my hands up and shout, that sounds non sense to me, then I'll tell you why. Take it as you will, I just call it like I see it. I am always open to change and I have, it is called growth.

Hippie, peace, love, flowers...

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I have seen on here many times ..many of you attacking others for their beliefs..and you know it seems to me that there is a lack of really caring about what the person cares about or believes in because many are to busy pushing their own "spiritual agenda"..this is just an observation ..^ popeye just wanted to be the hero and the big cheese ..lol have a wonderful day for truly that is all we have ..this very moment

Thank you legions

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I guess how open you are depends on how many times you been told you are going to hell, can't read or if you have ever been brainwashed. I don't mind spiritual discussions, I enjoy them, but some people push their point of view to a point of going overboard with them. Believe me, I am surrounded by Baptist, JWs and a few others who have the need to give me a bad time about being a dirt worshiping Druid. My son's in-laws are convinced I am a Satan worshiper and should not be allowed near children. I don't go to family functions where they are included, they have insulted me just one to many times. I am fine with an open discussion, but I don't like being told what I should believe, because it says so in a book or it is what the majority of the population believes.

If at some point I throw my hands up and shout, that sounds non sense to me, then I'll tell you why. Take it as you will, I just call it like I see it. I am always open to change and I have, it is called growth.

Hippie, peace, love, flowers...

:)

Bless you Greensmansgod, I am proud of you for pressing on through the struggle. :) I absolutely understand your point, admire your strength and understand your animosity toward that type of hatred.... its sickening how a lot of people think and refuse to see the point of view of others... I wish more were willing to grow. Sometimes it's a slow process but I have hope.

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Also... I think its the loudest ones that have the most issues toward change... and these type of people make it the hardest.. for the most part I think humans can recognize and acknowledge truth or at least be loving through differences when given the chance.

Edited by SpiritWriter

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for truly that is all we have ..this very moment

That's an agenda. Other people believe in heaven...............................................................

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Even in heaven, wouldn't all that you have is the moment in which you live?

if you live in eternity, then everything is within that moment, because time would have no purpose.

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How do you know there's no time in abrahamic heaven?

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If the concept of eternity exists then there's no end to the existence.

Time would have no purpose because there's no way to be too late for anything because it's all always.

Furthermore it would have to exist outside our universe, and as the recognition of time is a human concept from this universe, theres no reason to expect a place like abrahamic heaven which would need to exist outside out universe, to have the concept of time.

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Euroninja,

I believe some form of time is comprehended because of Revelation 22:2, "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month:..."

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The NO saints got their butts handed to them tonight..just another observation

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