God's Will

[Thelaw1]

First of all, I believe in God, so I am not saying or asking this because I think the whole idea of a God or a higher power is ridiculous.

Let's get to it then. Is there such a thing, in your opinion, as "God's will?" I believe that Free Will and God's Will can be reconciled but I must say, it is difficult to do.

Many individuals who argue that God's Will exists, argue that everything happens for a reason. For example, you interview for a job you really want only to be turned down. Turns out, it was the best thing that could have happened to you because it caused you to move to another state, find a job that you absolutely love, and meet the love of your life. Is this really God's Will at play here? If that's the case, what is the point of even living if everything happens according to God's will and not your own?

Other troubling issues arise too. For instance, you fall in love with a girl only to be broken hearted. Your loved ones comfort you and say, "He or She was not best for you, this is a blessing in disguise. You will meet the person you are meant to be with and thank God that he did not stick you with her because you would have been miserable with her." What happens if you never meet someone else? Point is, many people tell you that it is God's will that you did not marry that person because you would have been miserable. Let God watch over you because he has your best interests at heart in this situation. What if though, you never meet someone else? Is that God's will for you to be alone for the rest of your life?

I view the idea of God's will as simply a coping mechanism that your best days lay ahead of you and that you must not worry about what happens because, regardless of what you want, God always gives you what is best for you. But then you can point to many examples of people who are miserable because of choices made in their lives. If that is the case, then it is your own free will, not the will of some higher power that guides you through life. Perhaps that higher power puts you in situations that allow you to make your own decisions?

Who knows. I would be interested in what you think of God's Will, whether it actually exists, and why it originated.

[Likely Guy]

IMO, "It was God's Will" is just another way of saying "Que sera, sera" (what will be, will be). There's no intent, no design, **it happens.

But yeah, I agree. In a way, it's a coping mechanism.

[J. K.]

"God's will" is an expression of His desires or wants. God "wants" everyone to enter a relationship with Him, but He doesn't make it happen. Humans also have a will, and He allows us the freedom of choice in our actions. "God's will" doesn't mean that everything that happens has been orchestrated by Him.

[Grandpa Greenman]

I am a pantheist so God's will is my will, because everything is God. If you lose your love you have to understand she is part of God too, so she has a right to her will, too. If you want a fair, kind and just God, then you must be fair, kind and just. Sometimes letting go is the greatest act of love.

Edited December 4, 2013 by GreenmansGod

[Mr Walker]

Just because god wants something to happen doesn't make it happen. His will is not translated directly into physical consequences. Like us he must work, negotiate and teach, to ensure what he wants comes about.

I think some people see gods will like a fantasy magicians will. Wish for something and it becomes concrete or physical. It doesn't work like that. God makes things happen physically, not JUST by wishing it to be so.

[Arpee]

If God's Will is to have everyone saved and in heaven with him, and Satan's Will is to get everyone to go to hell; then, if the majority of people do go to hell in the end - like it says in the book of revelation, doesn't that mean that The Will of Satan is stronger than The Will of God ? God's Will didn't even come close to being done (all in heaven saved) but Satan's Will was more closer to being fulfilled than God's (everyone in hell).

[Leonardo]

It depends, in my thinking, as to what sort of 'creator' you envisage your god to be, as to whether there is only God's Will and no free will.

If God is the "creator of the universe", then there is no free will, only God's Will, because everything that is - and everything that happens - is the universe. And god created/creates that. People read the biblical creation story and think "Oh, all this creation happened a long time ago."

No, the universe continues to evolve and all of that has to also be part of creation - just as some also consider childbirth to be part of "God's Creation". If god is the universal creator, then this creating is ongoing until the end of things.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Leonardo

[+Link of Hyrule]

In my understanding, God's will is ultimately to bring his people unto him. Thus whatever happens is done to further that goal. Those who God has chosen to be his people will become his people. Those who God hasn't chosen will not be.

In context of the OP, when bad things happen to us we do use "God's will" as a tool of comfort. Not in the sense that God has better in store for us, but more the point that God is with us through the good times and the bad. Rather the point is to learn to be content, whether you are going through a period of prosperity or a period of hardship. Whatever your life circumstances there is the opportunity to honour God, do whatever happens, there is the choice to do God's will.

[LostSouls7]

I don't believe that God has a will on earth as far as my personal life.

I will my way and will what I desire.

I try the best to only do good.

If doing good and manipulating things to my advantage is his will..

the it's his will...

if not then I am doing my will...

but bottom line I do what makes me happy....

i don't serve a god.. or a group of men.. who CLAIM to have contact with god...

that is only a form of control and misery ..

[andes_wolf]

YOU JUST SPECULATE IN OUR FIELD OF ''MATERIAL'' AND ILLUSION AND unpredictability OF THINGS BUT YOU CAN THINK TOO THAT HAVE A COORDENATOR

Edited December 19, 2013 by andes_wolf

[Arpee]

Whatever God doesn't want us to do, we already can't.

Natural laws dictate what we can and cannot do, logic rules.

If God so desires, our brain can has the knowledge to be able to make inventions to help us do what we want.

God controls the physical laws, and it's impossible to oppose God since God is already blocking you from doing certain things .

But besides those few things, we have our own will which can be expressed.

[Mr Walker]

Whatever God doesn't want us to do, we already can't.

Natural laws dictate what we can and cannot do, logic rules.

If God so desires, our brain can has the knowledge to be able to make inventions to help us do what we want.

God controls the physical laws, and it's impossible to oppose God since God is already blocking you from doing certain things .

But besides those few things, we have our own will which can be expressed.

That is illogical and unacceptable to me. God does not want me to murder someone but I can if I want to. Gods WILL is what he wants to happen but it doesn't mean it is predestined or inevitable Physical forces cannot prevent any formation or act of will because consequences only occur after actions Ie I can form the idea /intent to walk through a brick wall I can (and quite regularly do) have a go at walking through a brick wall just to be cerain Some things are not what they appear to be. . The fact that, normally, the wall stops me has nothing to do with my free will and cannot hinder it in any way. IF you can not do something, you can still frorm the intent to do so. And this intent is unimpeded. Edited December 25, 2013 by Mr Walker

[LogicalThinker]

Was the holocaust God's will? How about African babies born with aids? How about the discrimination of gays/skin colour/sex hmmmmm? There are around 5000 God's out there in fact I created one last night..would you like to believe in him? If your God has a will then what about the other thousands out there...what is their will but then again your vain God is the only God that matters not the others. If there is Gods/God then I will gladly ignore them/him. I will play the lucky hand in which I have been dealt and on with my life. Everyones life would feel more important with the removal of these religons and make believe Gods.

[Mr Walker]

Was the holocaust God's will? How about African babies born with aids? How about the discrimination of gays/skin colour/sex hmmmmm? There are around 5000 God's out there in fact I created one last night..would you like to believe in him? If your God has a will then what about the other thousands out there...what is their will but then again your vain God is the only God that matters not the others. If there is Gods/God then I will gladly ignore them/him. I will play the lucky hand in which I have been dealt and on with my life. Everyones life would feel more important with the removal of these religons and make believe Gods.

Your life might feel more important, but you cant apply that to everyone.

Simply, the things you mention are the result of human failings and could be eliminated with a little will and effort. "Gods" teach us a better way to behave, for a better life for individuals and societies But in the end, our own life and the life of humanity is in our own hands. Belief in gods motivates people to act for change and to improve the quality of human life, in a way that logic and rational thinking does not.

[GoldenWolf]

Your life might feel more important, but you cant apply that to everyone.

Simply, the things you mention are the result of human failings and could be eliminated with a little will and effort. "Gods" teach us a better way to behave, for a better life for individuals and societies But in the end, our own life and the life of humanity is in our own hands. Belief in gods motivates people to act for change and to improve the quality of human life, in a way that logic and rational thinking does not.

I disagree, the majority change solely for their own benefit, to become "special". It is totally a single minded dedication.

[Doug1029]

Is there such a thing, in your opinion, as "God's will?" I believe that Free Will and God's Will can be reconciled but I must say, it is difficult to do.

The existence of free will was debated between St. Augustine and Pelagius in the early fifth century. They actually met each other and discussed it face-to-face. Each admitted that the other had some points, then parted without reaching a decision. By order of the Emperor Honorius, Pelagius was ex-communicated and disappeared. That's another one of those questions religion isn't making any progress with.

Many individuals who argue that God's Will exists, argue that everything happens for a reason.

I often wonder about the person who misses the plane that went down and killed everybody and credits her good fortune to god. Wasn't god watching out for the hundred or so people who were killed? Sounds like they worshipped the wrong god. Better luck next time.

For example, you interview for a job you really want only to be turned down. Turns out, it was the best thing that could have happened to you because it caused you to move to another state, find a job that you absolutely love, and meet the love of your life. Is this really God's Will at play here? If that's the case, what is the point of even living if everything happens according to God's will and not your own?

Nothing distinguishes this from the law of regression: given enough trials, anything that CAN happen WILL happen. If there is a way that a person can miss out on a job, move to another city, get a better job and find the love of his life, then that will happen to somebody. That's just random chance. You might consider it a miracle (god's handiwork) if it happens to you, but it happens to people on a routine basis.

et God watch over you because he has your best interests at heart in this situation.

I used to be a believer. Then my daughter, a pedestrian, was struck by an inattentive driver and crippled for life. I wondered where her god was - out to lunch? Then I had an awful revelation - the universe (god) doesn't give a d--n. It can kill you because you were in the way - wrong place at the wrong time. Or for no reason at all. And nothing supernatural intervenes. And that led to some careful rethinking. I found no evidence that there was or wasn't a god. If no god will intervene in human affairs, then religion is pointless, whether or not gods exist.

God's Will? Don't bet your life on it. My daughter did and she will never finish paying for that mistake.

Doug

[Mr Walker]

I disagree, the majority change solely for their own benefit, to become "special". It is totally a single minded dedication.

You obviously know different people to me and have a more cynical view of humanity The purpose of books like the bible, and the reason they were written, is to create a set of beliefs underlying individual and social order and prosperity. If you follow them your life and your society will in general be of a better quality than if you do not. Actuarial statistics demonstrate this to be true. Imagine a world where no one killed without legal sanction, stole from another, lusted after another mans wife, envied the possessions of another, respected and honoured those with wisdom and experience. Imagine a world where everyone first loved and respected themselves and then translated that love and respect into a physical relationship with al other humans starting with family working out to community but encompassing the whole world. Imagine a world where people understood that what is in our hearts and minds is far more important than anything we physically possess. .

That's the message of the bible.

[Rlyeh]

[hellig heilige]

lusted after another mans wife

or husband................................

Imagine a world where people understood that what is in our hearts and minds is far more important than anything we physically possess. .

Imagine a world with no things and art................................................... no husband ............... no wife ................... no boyfriend/gyrlfriend.........................

[Mr Walker]

or husband................................

Imagine a world with no things and art................................................... no husband ............... no wife ................... no boyfriend/gyrlfriend.........................

He'd be a fool if he lusted after a bloke who was happily married to a woman.

As Christ tried to point out, we do not possess art, or things, or other people such as family, nor can the "possession " of such things, or even a appreciation of their utility and beauty, be what makes us content and happy.

Be happy in ourselves and nothing else is needful.

I said "far more important " We need a modicum of food, water, shelter and company, to survive, along with breathable air but once we have that modicum; happiness and all the joys of life come from the human spirit and from within ourselves, not from who or what we have, or what material wealth we possess. Happiness might require meeting our most basic material needs but no more than this. It does, however, require meeting out spiritual or psychological needs, such as self esteem, love etc. If material needs were all that was required for a happy life, then suicide would not be the highest cause of death among Australians under 40 years of age.

[hellig heilige]

He'd be a fool if he lusted after a bloke who was happily married to a man.

God gave man talent to create beautiful things. That's in the bible. Don't leave that out. I'd be much happier in home filled with beautiful things than an empty one. Different strokes....................................

[Mr Walker]

He'd be a fool if he lusted after a bloke who was happily married to a man.

God gave man talent to create beautiful things. That's in the bible. Don't leave that out. I'd be much happier in home filled with beautiful things than an empty one. Different strokes....................................

No he wouldn't be a fool He'd be doing what comes naturally but it could have destructive effects just as it could in a hetero sexual relationship..

I am surrounded by beauty; natural, human and man made. I also appreciate painkillers antibiotics etc. But these are incidental to ones quality of life. That exists only within ones head. A person can be happy, even joyous, under ANY material condition, if they choose to be so. It is a matter of mental attitude and discipline. For example a person who has just lost a child but believes it is in gods hands and that they will be reunited for eternity. Or a person being burned at the stake who believes it will take them to heaven. Or simply a person who has decided to be happy and joyous in life, because that feels better than being sad and miserable.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Mr Walker

[Arpee]

I can form the idea /intent to walk through a brick wall I can (and quite regularly do) have a go at walking through a brick wall just to be cerain Some things are not what they appear to be. . The fact that, normally, the wall stops me has nothing to do with my free will and cannot hinder it in any way. IF you can not do something, you can still frorm the intent to do so. And this intent is unimpeded.

If you want to walk through a brick wall, but you can't, that means your free-will is limited by physical laws, physical laws, which I believe, God created.

I believe God gets what he wants. If God is all-powerful, then it is impossible for God not to get whatever he wants, unless what he wants is to limit himself from getting whatever he wants - and if he can accomplish that limitation on himself - then even that is still his will being fulfilled.

[Mr Walker]

If you want to walk through a brick wall, but you can't, that means your free-will is limited by physical laws, physical laws, which I believe, God created.

I believe God gets what he wants. If God is all-powerful, then it is impossible for God not to get whatever he wants, unless what he wants is to limit himself from getting whatever he wants - and if he can accomplish that limitation on himself - then even that is still his will being fulfilled.

No it actually does not mean that at all. Will is the ability to form an intent and to act on that intent. Free means one can do these things unimpeded. I can form an intent to walk through a wall because there is nothing to stop me doing this, and I can attempt to do so.There is nothing to stop the intent and who knows, maybe the wall is an illusion and I walk right through it. The fact that the wall stops me (usually) has nothing to do with freely forming an intent or freely acting on an intent. What happens subsequent to our acting freely cannot be an impediment to free will because it happens AFTER the intent and action occurs. The laws of nature /god form no impediment to free will, they only affect the consequences of exercising free will. So I might bounce off the wall, or I might walk through it, or I might go away and get a sledge hammer and smash the wall down.

God does not get what he wants because that is not his intent. His intent is to grow and mature, intelligent self aware beings, who learn to freely chose to be responsible constructive citizens (a lot like a parent does) and to go on to be all they can be. To reach this ultimate intent god must allow all such beings to learn, to grow, and to make decisions for them selves so they can learn cause and effect.

Arguably, god might get his ultimate intent if we do not destroy ourselves in the process, but this is up to us, not to god.

[White Crane Feather]

I disagree, the majority change solely for their own benefit, to become "special". It is totally a single minded dedication.

I disagree. I think most people change or even choose a religion because they inherently want to the right thing.