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zoser

Puma Punku: New Dating Project Underway

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The principal investigator, David Swenson, received his PhD in 1975 from the University of Wisconsin and is now semi retired in the Phoenix Arizona area. He has been involved in a multiplicity of different projects which require problem-solving and outside the box thinking. This project will be carried out to support the work of Brien Foerster, of Cusco Peru, who has been involved in the study of ancient people and their associated megalithic buildings. Samples of andesite stone from Tiwanaku and Puma Punku that have come from the megaliths will be shipped from Peru. David will photograph, measure and forward the samples to the PRIME laboratory at Purdue University for analysis and dating of the stone based on beryllium-10 production from cosmic rays by way of accelerator mass spectrometry.

Read More:

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmogenic-dating-of-megaliths-at-puma-punku

Interesting is that recent excavations (2012) have exposed a wall that comprises red stand stone which is very weathered and also andesite which is in better condition.

An excellent review of the site and it's relics which should throw up some interesting points for discussion.

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I didn't think there was a test that could date stone.

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I didn't think there was a test that could date stone.

There are ways to tell the age of at least some stones but not when they were dug out of the ground and put in place
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Puma Punku is without a doubt the most interesting site in South America. Just amazing.

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The project is not underway.

The attempt to collect funds from individuals to pay for this project is underway.

Harte

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Today I have learned that the translation of Tiahuanaco is "sit down, little llama."

So this location must be at least very friendly!

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The project is not underway.

The attempt to collect funds from individuals to pay for this project is underway.

Harte

Part of the project involves collecting funds first. My word we are pedantic.

Edited by zoser

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Today I have learned that the translation of Tiahuanaco is "sit down, little llama."

So this location must be at least very friendly!

Sit down little llama? That is kind of cool.

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There are ways to tell the age of at least some stones but not when they were dug out of the ground and put in place

I was reading that the lowest layer of the 3 gravel fills PP was built on was carbon-dated as put into place @ approx. 436-600 AD....BUT I thought the same thing, and still do. (And then I, almost cut my hair... :whistle: )

Not sure if the following method will work either...."dating of the stone based on beryllium-10 production from cosmic rays by way of accelerator mass. spectrometry." :unsure2: The stones could've been exposed to the sun for millenium before being put to use.

I've read Tia meant 'stone in the center' (of the world) and 'island in the center...'

Edited by Willie B Herd
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I was reading that the lowest layer of the 3 gravel fills PP was built on was carbon-dated as put into place @ approx. 436-600 AD....BUT I thought the same thing, and still do. (And then I, almost cut my hair... :whistle: )

Not sure if the following method will work either...."dating of the stone based on beryllium-10 production from cosmic rays by way of accelerator mass. spectrometry." :unsure2: The stones could've been exposed to the sun for millenium before being put to use.

I've read Tia meant 'stone in the center' (of the world) and 'island in the center...'

To be carbon dated a stone would either have to either have carbon in it's make up ie carbonate or be covered with soot or ash. I guess it's possible. (Don't do it some of my worst mistakes have been hair cuts)

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I didn't think there was a test that could date stone.

Radiometric dating (often called radioactive dating) is a technique used to date materials such as rocks, usually based on a comparison between the observed abundance of a naturally occurring radioactive isotope and its decay products, using known decay rates

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

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Radiometric dating tells when the stone formed.

Organic materials under the construction cannot be younger than the construction itself. It is organics found under the site that have been dated - using radiocarbon methods.

Harte

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Here is a Puma Punku-documentary. I haven't seen it myself yet. It is from the Ancient Alien.series so I don't know how "far out there" it is on the alien-archaeology theory. But I bet it is interesting anyway, regardless what you think of the ancient alien-theory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7dGxXdtBHo

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Whomever can do whatever dating studies they want and Puma Punku will STILL not have been constructed by aliens.

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I don't see how one can not give any credit for man building these monuments, they were not aliens.

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The whole mystery is based up on that “machine processed stones”. But there are no machine processed stones at all. And so there is no mystery. Two types of stone can be seen in all the published vids here. There are stones made out of red sandstones and the grey colored ones.

The greys are having almost plan surfaces and almost precise formed angles. The accuracy wasn´t accomplish by cutting, the accuracy just reflects the geometric quality of a casting mold as the grey stones are made of some kind of concrete. On the most pictures of the greys, there can be seen bubble shaped holes on the objects surface. These holes were resulted by entrapped air in the concrete material during the molding- and dehydration process. In addition, the surface appearance shows a micro pattern, that may reflect that the molding was performed with some (wooden?) frame that was placed on the (flat leveled?) ground.

Some alien technology friends might ask the question why there is nearly no erosion on the grey ones compared to the red sandstones. The answer is quite simple. Concrete is more erosion resistant than red sandstone. Main reason for concrete erosion is water+temperatures below 0°C. In case of rusting of the iron reinforcement within the concrete, by water, water penetrates the concrete and cracks it when it freeze. But, the grey stones do not have iron reinforcements. And the temperatures at Tiwanaku are not that that deep, to allow such process.

So, a question of scientific content to Puma Punku/ Tiwanaku is as follows: At what time of history the Bolivian ancients had developed the concrete technology.

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The whole mystery is based up on that “machine processed stones”. But there are no machine processed stones at all. And so there is no mystery. Two types of stone can be seen in all the published vids here. There are stones made out of red sandstones and the grey colored ones.

The greys are having almost plan surfaces and almost precise formed angles. The accuracy wasn´t accomplish by cutting, the accuracy just reflects the geometric quality of a casting mold as the grey stones are made of some kind of concrete. On the most pictures of the greys, there can be seen bubble shaped holes on the objects surface. These holes were resulted by entrapped air in the concrete material during the molding- and dehydration process. In addition, the surface appearance shows a micro pattern, that may reflect that the molding was performed with some (wooden?) frame that was placed on the (flat leveled?) ground.

Some alien technology friends might ask the question why there is nearly no erosion on the grey ones compared to the red sandstones. The answer is quite simple. Concrete is more erosion resistant than red sandstone. Main reason for concrete erosion is water+temperatures below 0°C. In case of rusting of the iron reinforcement within the concrete, by water, water penetrates the concrete and cracks it when it freeze. But, the grey stones do not have iron reinforcements. And the temperatures at Tiwanaku are not that that deep, to allow such process.

So, a question of scientific content to Puma Punku/ Tiwanaku is as follows: At what time of history the Bolivian ancients had developed the concrete technology.

So, geologists can't tell the difference between andesite - an igneous stone, and concrete.

Good God it's lucky they have you to straighten them out!

Harte

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So, geologists can't tell the difference between andesite - an igneous stone, and concrete.

I`m quite sure they can.

I´m quite sure, some of them also produce storys.

I`m quite sure, some of them earn much more money with a story than with reliable geologic research.

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I`m quite sure they can.

I´m quite sure, some of them also produce storys.

I`m quite sure, some of them earn much more money with a story than with reliable geologic research.

Not sure why you are going off the deep end with this, but the andesite has interlocking grains which is impervious to water. Weathering occurs on the surface.

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Not sure why you are going off the deep end with this, but the andesite has interlocking grains which is impervious to water. Weathering occurs on the surface.

That might be correct. But my assumption that the sharp contoured grey ones are not of natural stone origin, will persist.

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Here is a Puma Punku-documentary. I haven't seen it myself yet. It is from the Ancient Alien.series so I don't know how "far out there" it is on the alien-archaeology theory. But I bet it is interesting anyway, regardless what you think of the ancient alien-theory.

I can see why the site is a favourite of AA proponents. The finish and flatness on the andesite blocks is amazing. Also the quality of the drilling. How that inlaid detail was achieved in a huge mystery even considering exotic high technology.

The stones display signs of vitrification which suggests that some not understood technology was used.

Then there is the shear scale of the work, and the lifting, etc.

Edited by zoser
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The whole mystery is based up on that “machine processed stones”. But there are no machine processed stones at all. And so there is no mystery. Two types of stone can be seen in all the published vids here. There are stones made out of red sandstones and the grey colored ones.

The greys are having almost plan surfaces and almost precise formed angles. The accuracy wasn´t accomplish by cutting, the accuracy just reflects the geometric quality of a casting mold as the grey stones are made of some kind of concrete. On the most pictures of the greys, there can be seen bubble shaped holes on the objects surface. These holes were resulted by entrapped air in the concrete material during the molding- and dehydration process. In addition, the surface appearance shows a micro pattern, that may reflect that the molding was performed with some (wooden?) frame that was placed on the (flat leveled?) ground.

Some alien technology friends might ask the question why there is nearly no erosion on the grey ones compared to the red sandstones. The answer is quite simple. Concrete is more erosion resistant than red sandstone. Main reason for concrete erosion is water+temperatures below 0°C. In case of rusting of the iron reinforcement within the concrete, by water, water penetrates the concrete and cracks it when it freeze. But, the grey stones do not have iron reinforcements. And the temperatures at Tiwanaku are not that that deep, to allow such process.

So, a question of scientific content to Puma Punku/ Tiwanaku is as follows: At what time of history the Bolivian ancients had developed the concrete technology.

So you seem to be advocating that the stones were poured? Listen to the video in the OP; Foerster who has done extensive measurements on the site confirms that the H blocks are not identical. They all vary slightly.

The grey stone is andesite; a naturally occurring Andean rock, of similar harness to granite. Apparently with less quartz than granite.

They were not poured.

However they could have been moulded by some exotic technology that altered their molecular composition. It' my firm belief that the stones in Bolivia and Peru were softened that allowed them to be easily worked.

How that was done I can only guess.

Edited by zoser
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PP has already been scientifically dated.

"Determining the age of the Pumapunku complex has been a focus of researchers since the discovery of the Tiwanaku site. As noted by Andean specialist, Binghamton University Anthropology professor W. H. Isbell,[2] a radiocarbon date was obtained by Vranich[3] from organic material from lowermost and oldest layer of mound-fill forming the Pumapunku.

This layer was deposited during the first of three construction epochs and dates the initial construction of the Pumapunku to CE 536–600 (1510 ±25 B.P. C14, calibrated date). Since the radiocarbon date came from the lowermost and oldest layer of mound-fill underlying the andesite and sandstone stonework, the stonework must have been constructed sometime after CE 536–600.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumapunku#Age :tu:

And the world is still waiting for the the Moron called Brien Foerester who took everyones money for DNA tests on elongated skulls... to provide the test data. he has been promising that since 2011, so where is it? and within a few weeks, we are in 2014...so another BS merchant, who - incidentally - nowadays says, the skulls are human :clap:

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That might be correct. But my assumption that the sharp contoured grey ones are not of natural stone origin, will persist.

word to the wise toast, we have had this discussion many times, too many, try a search on puma punku, zoser has been having wedgies about it for last 4 years here.. cant think why, maybe the AA series take on it leaves him baffled :w00t:

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