115 Billion U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel

[Yamato]

Statehood is as close as a declaration that the Jews of Israel have a right to live alongside the Palestinians in a JEWISH state. If the Palestinians could utter those words the conflict could come to an end rather promptly. Now, why would that be so difficult Yam, why?

It's difficult because it's impossible. It's impossible because it's not true. Uttering magic words isn't going to change anything. It doesn't matter to me what Palestinians think; I don't believe in Eugenics experiments, especially when executed by nationalistic governments.

[Beany]

And added to that, in a "Democracy", what the leader or government does is supposed to reflect the views of the public, even if that leader or government wasn't elected by anything like a majority of the people. But since the West keeps insisting that its system of "Democracy" is what the whole world should follow, then others might perhaps not understand that what the leader does may not by any means be supported by a majority of their people. So they might see it that all the people share the blame for what their leader does, and therefore they're all fair game.

No matter the circumstance the taking of innocent lives is immoral, unethical, and just plain wrong. And in this case an ineffective tactic, as well. It doesn't work ethically, politically, militarily, or strategically. If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.

[Beany]

This is the second warning from me about keeping the postings within the forum rules. Sometimes being a moderator is like being on yard duty during a junior high recess. Everyone knows the rules, but there's always a few who insist on violating them, despite warnings and PMs. I can't figure out why those people, as adults, never learned to play well with others.

[Yamato]

We all exist, therefore we all have the right to exist. How we exist, and how we have the right to exist, is another matter altogether.

Principles of humanity -like the universality of rights- supercede the narrow interests of this group or that group, whether it's an Islamic group, a Zionist group, a nation, a skin color, or a political movement. All of the good reasons to support the existence of the State of Israel or any other group aren't mutually exclusive to the principle.

[MonkeyLove]

This has been going on for some time. The U.S. also provides military aid to Saudi Arabia, and did so for Egypt and Iraq. It even tried to sell arms to Iran in the past, and supported various terror organizations and dictatorships in different countries.

Those who are ignorant of this see the situation as "we" vs. "them," or "our army" and "our troops," not realizing that citizens have no control over the government, the military, or the financial elite. That should not be surprising because

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

where the government gets its "superpower" status, the military and counterparts in other countries their arms, the financial elite and counterparts in other countries profits, and citizens are saddled with war costs or become collateral damage. Citizens in the U.S. readily accept this phenomenon in exchange for a middle class lifestyle purchased through tax cuts, entitlement, and easy credit. That's why they voted for one Reagan clone after another for the last few decades.

One wants to think that this scheme will continue indefinitely, but increasing debt, peak oil, and long-term effects of environmental damage, including global warming, are taking their toll.

[Yamato]

The US didn't just try to sell arms to Iran, it supplied Iran's entire air force with modern warplanes (F-4, F-5, F-14, C-130 etc) in the 1970s. I don't think Iran had a single combat aircraft in its military that wasn't provided by the US; I'll dig up old print sources on it if anyone cares.

I've always wondered something about Saudi Arabia though. Whenever I suggest no longer supplying arms to Saudi Arabia, why doesn't anyone think I'm anti-Arab or anti-Sunni or anti-Saud?

[Beany]

Thanks, folks, for your self-monitoring, I appreciate it. I LOATHE playing cop here.

[Space Commander Travis]

No matter the circumstance the taking of innocent lives is immoral, unethical, and just plain wrong. And in this case an ineffective tactic, as well. It doesn't work ethically, politically, militarily, or strategically. If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.

I agree very much; just as long as these sentiments are applied equally to either side,

[Space Commander Travis]

The US didn't just try to sell arms to Iran, it supplied Iran's entire air force with modern warplanes (F-4, F-5, F-14, C-130 etc) in the 1970s. I don't think Iran had a single combat aircraft in its military that wasn't provided by the US; I'll dig up old print sources on it if anyone cares.

Ah, that was before they were ruled by the Mad Mullahs, though, that was in the days of the Shah, who was a paragon of democracy and free speech. When Ron Reagan wanted to do it, he had to be much more subtle. Who did he supply the arms to, who would then sell them to Iran, and the US would then take the money? That's right! So in fact technically not only the US but Israel has sold arms to the Mad Mullahs! Isn't international machiavellianism brilliant!

Edited December 29, 2013 by Colonel Rhuairidh

[+and-then]

Ah, that was before they were ruled by the Mad Mullahs, though, that was in the days of the Shah, who was a paragon of democracy and free speech. When Ron Reagan wanted to do it, he had to be much more subtle. Who did he supply the arms to, who would then sell them to Iran, and the US would then take the money? That's right! So in fact technically not only the US but Israel has sold arms to the Mad Mullahs! Isn't international machiavellianism brilliant!

Hopefully it will still be as entertaining a subject when a mullah can have a bad day and decide to raise the price of gas for your vehicle by 20% on a whim

[Space Commander Travis]

Hopefully it will still be as entertaining a subject when a mullah can have a bad day and decide to raise the price of gas for your vehicle by 20% on a whim

if only they would, it might persuade the West to stop being so dependent on the stuff.

Although of course it would probably just mean that the West would decide to guarantee supplies of the stuff by force, or provoke another Coup, such as worked so successfully in Egypt and Libya.

interesting question, that; if it's so easy to provoke Civil Uprisings to depose Tyrants who aren't doing what you want them to, why hasn't that been done in Iran? Surely it shouldn't be too difficult to find a puppet- er, a regime more amenable to the interests of the West. Again, I wonder, does the West actually want to keep Iran under the heel of the Mad Mullahs, for some machiavellian reason of their own ... ?

[+and-then]

if only they would, it might persuade the West to stop being so dependent on the stuff.

Although of course it would probably just mean that the West would decide to guarantee supplies of the stuff by force, or provoke another Coup, such as worked so successfully in Egypt and Libya.

interesting question, that; if it's so easy to provoke Civil Uprisings to depose Tyrants who aren't doing what you want them to, why hasn't that been done in Iran? Surely it shouldn't be too difficult to find a puppet- er, a regime more amenable to the interests of the West. Again, I wonder, does the West actually want to keep Iran under the heel of the Mad Mullahs, for some machiavellian reason of their own ... ?

I think you underestimate the virulence of this particular group of party animals. But no matter what they do it's only a faint shadow of the evil the west imposes on the world.

[Beany]

I agree very much; just as long as these sentiments are applied equally to either side,

I don't think my statement reflected any bias, if you think it did, let me know.

[SHaYap]

Information is more readily available today and the tactics of ye old days is not so successful rendered today ... much like tweet and facebook springs worked then but would be hard to rouse up another one these days ... sadly the obverse is also true as misinformation is also riding the same webs ~

the bottom line is as ever the bottom line ... the ones that brings in the numbers to keep the Gov afloat and in power is the friend and flavor of the day ~

[MonkeyLove]

Thanks. I was referring to the period after the revolution.