why would we have no memories

[sards]

Of advanced civilisations of the past.

There was written language. Surely this skill should have been developed and memories passed down.

[cormac mac airt]

Of advanced civilisations of the past.

There was written language. Surely this skill should have been developed and memories passed down.

We have writing developing c.3100/3200 BC by the Egyptians and Sumerians. What is it you expect from before then?

cormac

[+DieChecker]

I agree, that if there were even more ancient advanced cultures in the world, then the ancient Egyptians and Mesoptamians, then we'd have an oral tradition of them, plus piles of artifacts. The lack of artifacts is what convinces me.

[questionmark]

If we find no evidence of an older culture there was no such a thing. We are even to capable of finding tribal hamlets dating from 20,000 or more years ago, so the only reason for not finding anything is: There was nothing.

[The_Spartan]

What exactly do you mean by "memories"?

Written? oral?

Memories when written or transmitted orally are not "memories" anymore, they are records.

[Harte]

Though the earliest written language we know of is Sumerian cuneiform, there was a point not too long ago when we had no knowledge of the existence of that civilization.

What I mean is that just because a culture had a written language and a joint mythology, that certainly doesn't imply that we should know about them.

Harte

[sards]

Correct about the memories translating into records. It is almost as though humanity decided to take a holiday after for example the great pyramids were built.

[ShadowSot]

Correct about the memories translating into records. It is almost as though humanity decided to take a holiday after for example the great pyramids were built.

Not exactly. The main pyramid builders were int eh 4th Dynasty, as a signs of their power as much as anything. The pyramids were build at a time of unequaled peace, prosperity, and stability in Egypt, that the later Dynasties didn't quite hit again.

You also have the refocusing from great pyramids to the temples, something that started during the 4th dynasty.

If you really look at pyramids without all the New Age woo that gets added to them, while impressive monuments they are not amazing in terms of architecture. The Temples, which also had the record of the accomplishments of the pharaohs inscribed in them, outshone the pyramids in terms of construction and materials used.

And Kmt should (hopefully kindly) point out how I've got this wrong.

[sards]

I am just amazed that we have to guess about everything.

[Frank Merton]

I read somewhere that the pyramids served as a way to absorb excess labor supply in a country which, because of the Nile, had large numbers of seasonally unneeded workers. A sort of make-work program.

[sards]

Pyramids don't interest me. It is inanimate. Quarrried blocks stacked randomly ontop of each other. Blah.

The fact that so much supposed intelligence was harvested to create these atrocities and then lost in time because we were too stupid to grow intellectually after wards amuses me.

Edited December 23, 2013 by sards

[Taun]

Pyramids don't interest me. It is inanimate. Quarrried blocks stacked randomly ontop of each other. Blah.

The fact that so much supposed intelligence was harvested to create these atrocities and then lost in time because we were too stupid to grow intellectually after wards amuses me.

Just curious as to why you seem to think they are/were "atrocities", and what intelligence was 'harvested' and how?...

[sards]

They really are ugly structures. Maybe when new , yes. And they really do seem pointless. Some mans ego at the cost of a lot of lives.

[AtlantisRises]

Just because you aren't capable of seeing a point in no way makes something pointless.

[jaylemurph]

Pyramids don't interest me. It is inanimate. Quarrried blocks stacked randomly ontop of each other. Blah.

The fact that so much supposed intelligence was harvested to create these atrocities and then lost in time because we were too stupid to grow intellectually after wards amuses me.

The fact you mention a lack of intellectual growth and called the Pyramids "blocks stacked randomly ontop [sic] of each other" is a joke, right, or are you just the most irony-resistant poster to come along since Zoser?

--Jaylemurph

[sards]

Listen. I spent a few years in Egypt. Passing the Pyramids twice a week. I never once felt an inclination to visit them.

That is my opinion. Like I have been saying. I am more interested in how we have no idea how such a tragic loss of souls occurred.

[ShadowSot]

Listen. I spent a few years in Egypt. Passing the Pyramids twice a week. I never once felt an inclination to visit them.

That is my opinion. Like I have been saying. I am more interested in how we have no idea how such a tragic loss of souls occurred.

What loss of souls? Are you aware that the pyramids were not built by slave labor, but a well cared for (for the time) hired workforce?

The Egyptians were not intellectually stunted, as I pointed out monument building switched from the pyramids to more finely constructed temples.

In their time they developed some basic medicine and chemistry, our modern word chemistry is developed from the name the ancient Egyptians had for themselves. Others built on their initial work as the civilization declined.

[White Unicorn]

Of advanced civilisations of the past.

There was written language. Surely this skill should have been developed and memories passed down.

Time holds your answer.

Some records survive but unfortunately most are eventually lost.

This link shows about what's left after 2000,

not including the most popular intentional destructions by religious scroll and book burnings

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-25106956

As tech gets more modern it becomes even easier to lose.

http://www.unexplain...shing-data-loss

Imagine looking for something of a really ancient advanced civilization if one did exist, not much of anything would be left at all except myths or a needle in a haystack chance of finding any evidence left or even knowing what it really was. If we did discover a clue, would we even know what we were looking at if it is totally different from what we developed for the same purposes?

Say if even a DVD was found in the 1920's they wouldn't have a clue but speculate aliens etc LOL.

I hate to say it but the best chances of survival through time and disasters are written in stone or crystal. But not even those can survive time except through luck or a very well thought out time capsule placed in a safe haven if there is such a thing.

Edited December 24, 2013 by White Unicorn

[sards]

Interesting read white unicorn. Thank you for that.

[sards]

What loss of souls? Are you aware that the pyramids were not built by slave labor, but a well cared for (for the time) hired workforce?

The Egyptians were not intellectually stunted, as I pointed out monument building switched from the pyramids to more finely constructed temples.

In their time they developed some basic medicine and chemistry, our modern word chemistry is developed from the name the ancient Egyptians had for themselves. Others built on their initial work as the civilization declined.

I am wondering why civilisation would decline.

And how would we know that the workforce was well cared for.

Edited December 24, 2013 by sards

[Frank Merton]

I have to agree that the pyramids are not very pretty, nor, compared to many things I've seen, all that impressive. They've been hyped a good deal because of their "mystery," although actually there is no mystery, and I think they make a great background for horror movies.

[ShadowSot]

I have to agree that the pyramids are not very pretty, nor, compared to many things I've seen, all that impressive. They've been hyped a good deal because of their "mystery," although actually there is no mystery, and I think they make a great background for horror movies.

I've said this before, the real impressive thing about the monuments to me, is that a culture at that time was able to orchestrate and fund such a construction project.

Though they probably looked a bit better before the Muslims took the outer cladding and when the exterior temples and such were still intact.

[ShadowSot]

I am wondering why civilisation would decline.

And how would we know that the workforce was well cared for.

Some of it was internal politics, some of it was change in the conditions, some of it was Egypt simply being unable to keep up with other emerging nations, like Persia. It's culture was based around the idea of stability and resisting change.

And we have the graves and housing used for the workers, which tells us of how well cared for they were and something of their lives. They were hired during the off months when the Nile flooded and replenished the land, when there wasn't much work for them to do.

This is a good easy article to get into, but there's a lot of research that has gone on to look into how the pyramids were built, and importantly whether those who built it were slaves or hired labor.

And from what's been found, they were hired by the Pharaoh to do the work and paid in food, lodging, and medical care.

[Frank Merton]

China has had a phenomenon called the "Dynastic Cycle" that I think applies generally, although not in precise detail. You have a new dynasty come to power, full of energy and determination to change things and make things better. The bureaucracy is all executed -- all the lawyers and scribes and paper pushers and so on -- and things are trimmed down so they actually function, and the goal is efficiency, not fairness or equality or some other ideological notion.

Over time bad things happen, and each time a bad thing happens a new law is passed and more lawyers and inspectors are employed to enforce the new law, all to be sure the bad thing doesn't happen again. Also of course natural empire building goes on (bureaucrats are measured by the number of people who report to them, so they tend to look for opportunities to enlarge that number).

So decline sets in until eventually it becomes where bribes are the only way to get anything done, there being so many rules and so many officials living off those rules, and the whole system needs a revolution to clean it all out again.

[sards]

I have to agree that the pyramids are not very pretty, nor, compared to many things I've seen, all that impressive. They've been hyped a good deal because of their "mystery," although actually there is no mystery, and I think they make a great background for horror movies.

Aswan is impressive. For a tourist. I remember landing in Hurghada and the choice was either a tour of a dead civilisations antiquities or a weekend fishing the Red sea on a chartered boat. I caught a lot of fish that weekend.