Missing Persons

[zoser]

My view is that there is something curious about this phenomena that is unexplainable in conventional terms.

Readers may want to familarise themselves with the legend (or fable) of David Lang.

http://voices.yahoo....748.html?cat=38

Possibly fiction I agree.

However what about Orion Williamson? Remarkably similar in detail:

http://altereddimens...e-of-david-lang

In an attempt to acquaint myself with the phenomena I am part way into David Paulides book Missing 411. The book focusses on people going missing in National Parks in the North West US. His other book deals more with the Eastern US cases.

Several curiosities interest me:

Sometimes people are never found; other times only some of their bones. More curious still is that when bones are found clothes are found nearby. Not shredded; torn or blood stained. The idea of a predator attack is not feasible. No entrails or blood.

Cases such as Robert Winters (78 years old Missing in 1969 Oregon while hunting) and Charles McCullar (19 years old missing 1976 Oregon) fit the above profile. In the latter case his trousers were found not laid out but as though he had just stepped out of them, and one of his tibia bones was still in the trousers. Inside his socks were foot bones. Bizarre! What happened to these people?

Often toddlers as young as two are found alive miles away up and over mountains. Would a two year old toddler be capable of that? Usually this is in cold temperatures in difficult terrain.

Children disappear in these areas when the parents have taken their eyes off them for only a minutes or even seconds. As if someone or something is watching for the opportunity.

If these people are being abducted, how come the abductors get away so quickly? There are no vehicular routes near to these disappearances. Often parents give chase only minutes later, and fail to find a thing. Tracker dogs have proved to be of little help in these disappearances and seen to get disorientated. All of this needs consideration.

Finally have a look at this:

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The Missing Norfolk Regiment? Missing Eskimo Tribes? All folklore or is there any truth in all of these things?

Do you know of any similar fascinating cases?

Edited December 26, 2013 by zoser

[Davros of Skaro]

The band "Missing Persons" is nowhere to be seen.

Here is a Wiki list of missing people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_disappeared_mysteriously

Aliens only need about 1,500 people to have their own breeding population to work the Bloopmort Crystal mines of Tellianna 7.

[zoser]

The band "Missing Persons" is nowhere to be seen.

Here is a Wiki list of missing people.

http://en.wikipedia....ed_mysteriously

Aliens only need about 1,500 people to have their own breeding population to work the Bloopmort Crystal mines of Tellianna 7.

No one said it was aliens.

It could be but I have not established a definite link yet.

Something out of the ordinary is happening. That's all I know at this time,

Thanks for the link by the way. i will review it tomorrow.

Edited December 26, 2013 by zoser

[Meridian O]

The Frederick Valentich disappearance.

The Valentich disappearance refers to the unexplained disappearance at around 7:12 pm on 21 October 1978 of 20-year-old Frederick Valentich while piloting a Cessna 182L light aircraft over Bass Strait in Australia. He intended to land at King Island and return to Moorabbin Airport.

During the 127-mile (235 km) flight, Valentich advised Melbourne air traffic control that he was being accompanied by an aircraft about 1,000 feet (300 m) above him. He described some unusual actions and features of the aircraft, saying that his engine had begun running roughly, and finally reported that the "strange aircraft is hovering on top of me again. It is hovering and it's not an aircraft.

Valentich and his aircraft were never found, and an Australian Department of Transport investigation concluded that the reason for the disappearance could not be determined.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Meridian O

[Bavarian Raven]

Inside his socks were foot bones. Bizarre!

Erm...if the dead person had rotten away leaving only the bones...then it makes sense that the foot bones were inside the socks

[libstaK]

Erm...if the dead person had rotten away leaving only the bones...then it makes sense that the foot bones were inside the socks

Yeah I was wondering why the fact that there was no entrails or blood next to bones was bizarre too?

On another note, I liked the video to a point:

1. What was Lord Lucan doing in the mix of mysterious disappearances? Everybody knows he ran away because he murdered the nanny, nothing mysterious about that whatsoever.

2. 10 Million americans do not disappear each year - according the the below it is 2300 x 365 = 839500

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/americas_missing/2.html

And the FBI records the following:

During 2012, 661,593 missing person records were entered into NCIC, a decrease of 2.5 % from the 678,860 records entered in 2011. Missing Person records cleared or canceled during the same period totaled 659,514. Reasons for these removals include: a law enforcement agency located the subject, the individual returned home, or the record had to be removed by the entering agency due to a determination that the record is invalid.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ncic/ncic-missing-person-and-unidentified-person-statistics-for-2012

[Rlyeh]

Finally have a look at this:

The Missing Norfolk Regiment? Missing Eskimo Tribes? All folklore or is there any truth in all of these things?

Hoaxes and a murderer on the run? Spooky.

[zoser]

The Frederick Valentich disappearance.

The Valentich disappearance refers to the unexplained disappearance at around 7:12 pm on 21 October 1978 of 20-year-old Frederick Valentich while piloting a Cessna 182L light aircraft over Bass Strait in Australia. He intended to land at King Island and return to Moorabbin Airport.

During the 127-mile (235 km) flight, Valentich advised Melbourne air traffic control that he was being accompanied by an aircraft about 1,000 feet (300 m) above him. He described some unusual actions and features of the aircraft, saying that his engine had begun running roughly, and finally reported that the "strange aircraft is hovering on top of me again. It is hovering and it's not an aircraft.

Valentich and his aircraft were never found, and an Australian Department of Transport investigation concluded that the reason for the disappearance could not be determined.

Excellent case. We do however have some indication of what occurred from his dialogue with the airport controller before he went missing. Also his plane was seen apparently accompanied by some strange illuminated object. Whether this object caused his plane to crash is open to debate.

[zoser]

Hoaxes and a murderer on the run? Spooky.

I don't think so,

David Charles Knowles (43 years old, disappeared at Sims Flat Campground CA in 2006) left the campsite to visit the toilet (200 yards away) and was never seen again. Left behind his truck (carrying a motorcycle), belongings, while waiting for two friends to arrive for a fishing trip. Engaged to be married, His parents had just put down a payment on a house and he had a secure job as a truck driver. He was an experienced camper.

http://projectjason.org/forums/topic/431-missing-man-david-clark-knowles-ca-08172006/

[zoser]

Erm...if the dead person had rotten away leaving only the bones...then it makes sense that the foot bones were inside the socks

And why only one (broken) leg bone inside the trousers? Where were the other bones? Why no blood or entrails? Why were the trousers not laid out horizontally? Why no tears or rips? The belt and buttons had been undone as though he had just stepped out of them.

Sorry but this is not as simple as it sounds. You may appear to have a simple clear answer to it, but the investigators certainly didn't and neither do I.

[Rlyeh]

I don't think so,

David Charles Knowles (43 years old, disappeared at Sims Flat Campground CA in 2006) left the campsite to visit the toilet (200 yards away) and was never seen again. Left behind his truck (carrying a motorcycle), belongings, while waiting for two friends to arrive for a fishing trip. Engaged to be married, His parents had just put down a payment on a house and he had a secure job as a truck driver. He was an experienced camper.

http://projectjason....es-ca-08172006/

Your comprehension skills are non-existent, could you show me where David Charles Knowles is mentioned in the video?

[zoser]

Your comprehension skills are non-existent, could you show me where David Charles Knowles is mentioned in the video?

I never cited a video link for David Charles Knowles.

Please ask if you are are having difficulty understanding the direction of the thread so far.

Edited December 27, 2013 by zoser

[Rlyeh]

I never cited a video link for David Charles Knowles.

Please ask if you are are having difficulty understanding the direction of the thread so far.

I'm having difficulty understanding why you brought up David Charles Knowles when the video was criticised. Oh I see, you were dodging. Edited December 27, 2013 by Rlyeh

[Bavarian Raven]

And why only one (broken) leg bone inside the trousers? Where were the other bones? Why no blood or entrails? Why were the trousers not laid out horizontally? Why no tears or rips? The belt and buttons had been undone as though he had just stepped out of them.

Sorry but this is not as simple as it sounds. You may appear to have a simple clear answer to it, but the investigators certainly didn't and neither do I.

[Bavarian Raven]

Why was there no blood and entrails? Those rot/are washed away very quickly and decompose just as fast. Soft flesh and blood are the quickest to vanish in the woods. As for there only being one bone left in the pants - simple. As the body decomposed scavengers pulled the rest out of the pants. You'd be surprised at how fast small critters and bugs can make a body vanish (the body not the clothing mind you). A deer carcass left in the woods for two weeks - you'd be lucky to find some bones left at the end of those two weeks (assuming something big didn't drag the body off and hide it). As for the case this came from, nothing strange/paranormal to be seen for anyone who has spent any length of time out in the woods. Cheers.

[zoser]

I'm having difficulty understanding why you brought up David Charles Knowles when the video was criticised. Oh I see, you were dodging.

Feel free to criticise the video. It has some interesting cases on it; that's all.

Try and remain impartial. I'm all for understanding what this phenomena is all about; your personal criticisms interest me not.

Edited December 27, 2013 by zoser

[zoser]

Why was there no blood and entrails? Those rot/are washed away very quickly and decompose just as fast. Soft flesh and blood are the quickest to vanish in the woods. As for there only being one bone left in the pants - simple. As the body decomposed scavengers pulled the rest out of the pants. You'd be surprised at how fast small critters and bugs can make a body vanish (the body not the clothing mind you). A deer carcass left in the woods for two weeks - you'd be lucky to find some bones left at the end of those two weeks (assuming something big didn't drag the body off and hide it). As for the case this came from, nothing strange/paranormal to be seen for anyone who has spent any length of time out in the woods. Cheers.

Some bodies were found very quickly. I have my doubts about bodies decomposing that quickly.

It still doesn't explain why the clothes are shed in so many case; not ripped, damaged. I recommend that you do some investigation on such cases; just throwing in simple answers isn't likely to solve anything.

I'll cite some more cases as I get more into the book.

[Bavarian Raven]

Some bodies were found very quickly. I have my doubts about bodies decomposing that quickly.

It only takes a week, or two at the very most in the "warmer" months for there to be nothing but bones left. Dead things dont last long out in the woods.

[zoser]

It only takes a week, or two at the very most in the "warmer" months for there to be nothing but bones left. Dead things dont last long out in the woods.

The cases cited in the book virtually all take place in the American NW in desolate regions in the winter months. Another phenomena is that many are found at altitude where it is even colder.

People obviously do succumb to predator attacks. I would suggest that the traces are discernible though in one form or another.

These cases don't fit that profile. Neither do they seem to fit the classic kidnapping profile. Whether the author chose them for that reason I'm not sure at this stage.

Edited December 27, 2013 by zoser

[Bavarian Raven]

Well I'm from the Pacific Nw. Born and raised here. I've seen first hand things (dead animals) in the bush rotting. Even in the winter flesh and organs rot quickly. For one (being in Canada and further north then where this takes place) it rarely gets below freezing unless you're above 400-600 meters elevation for any length of time. (Plus the freeze thaw action helps flesh break down quicker). Depending on the winter, I've seen insects active every month of the year. Animals (from rats to nice to martins to a whole host of winter loving scavengers) are active year round here. Go snow shoeing up in the high mtns around here after a fresh snow fall and you'll be amazed at the number if tracks.

Heck, small rodents probably do more to consume dead flesh and bones then larger carnivores (about the only carnivore that hibernates out here are bears and some years they don't even sleep).

Then there is bacteria, etc, that begins to break down the body within hours of death...

No. Unless other evidence comes forth there is nothing strange/unusual about finding nothing but bones and cloth (when bodies are even found out here. A lot of the time missing persons are never found. The lush plant growth and excessive runoff can make things vanish relatively quick.

[zoser]

Well I'm from the Pacific Nw. Born and raised here. I've seen first hand things (dead animals) in the bush rotting. Even in the winter flesh and organs rot quickly. For one (being in Canada and further north then where this takes place) it rarely gets below freezing unless you're above 400-600 meters elevation for any length of time. (Plus the freeze thaw action helps flesh break down quicker). Depending on the winter, I've seen insects active every month of the year. Animals (from rats to nice to martins to a whole host of winter loving scavengers) are active year round here. Go snow shoeing up in the high mtns around here after a fresh snow fall and you'll be amazed at the number if tracks.

Heck, small rodents probably do more to consume dead flesh and bones then larger carnivores (about the only carnivore that hibernates out here are bears and some years they don't even sleep).

Then there is bacteria, etc, that begins to break down the body within hours of death...

No. Unless other evidence comes forth there is nothing strange/unusual about finding nothing but bones and cloth (when bodies are even found out here. A lot of the time missing persons are never found. The lush plant growth and excessive runoff can make things vanish relatively quick.

Thanks for the information.

Several problems still remain and I can see why the author wrote these books in order to raise public awareness regarding the phenomena.

1) Clothes being shed, without damage.

2) No damage to bones (apart from say a fracture here and there) to indicate a predator kill.

3) People including young children of 2 years old being found miles from where they should be, Paulides makes the point that children naturally head downhill when lost. Yet in these cases they were found miles away having traversed high peaks. Even people who should have known better (say experienced outdoor people) were found at altitude in inclement whether putting themselves at risk. the pattern of this is quite common and needs consideration.

4) People disappearing suddenly and never being found again. Only needing to walk a short distance; say back to camp or from camp site to the toilet block and never seen again. Impossible to get lost as if they simply vanished. This is perhaps for me the most puzzling of all. Where are they going? Are they being kidnapped?

Who would kidnap John Barnes 24 years old 6' 4" at 180 pound who went missing in 1988 in Yosemite?

What about Elizabeth Bartholomew (aged 80 from Midpines CA) who was dropped off from her husband's tractor to walk the short distance back to their ranch? He kept her in sight for a few minutes, then looked again and she was gone never to be seen again. How far could an 80 year old have got?

No ransom demands, no killers or abductors ever caught. Are they falling into holes? Why haven't people reported these strange holes?

Puzzling. Some ideas are starting to form up but it's a little early to be sure.

[seeder]

My view is that there is something curious about this phenomena that is unexplainable in conventional terms.

Readers may want to familarise themselves with the legend (or fable) of David Lang.

http://voices.yahoo....748.html?cat=38

Possibly fiction I agree.

However what about Orion Williamson? Remarkably similar in detail:

http://altereddimens...e-of-david-lang

God - A new subject and still the same non researched tales by zoser, DONT YOU EVER RESEARCH ANYTHING?

The disappearance stories of David Lang and Oliver Larch are commonly cited hoax examples.

http://en.wikipedia....nd_Oliver_Larch

and

Years later, a traveling salesman named McHatten rewrote the Orion Williamson disappearance. In his story, Orion’s name became David Lang, the place changed to Gallatin and the date was moved to 1880. Although the Lang story is fictional, it has been presented as true in newspaper articles and books by authors who didn't do their homework.

Why not read the previous thread on 'disappearances'

Top 10 Bizarre Disappearances

http://www.unexplain...ic=149248&st=15

.

Edited December 28, 2013 by seeder

[seeder]

The Missing Norfolk Regiment? Missing Eskimo Tribes?

Oh boy zosers been on youtube again watching silly spooky-for-kids trash entertainment again

The Missing Norfolk regiment is too stupid a story for anyone to believe. A regiment goes missing? Oh and all their families have kept quiet about it ever since? Dont think so...

quote:

On 12 August 1915, the Sandringham company suffered heavy losses at Gallipoli when it became isolated during an attack. A myth grew up after the War that they had advanced into a mist and simply disappeared

http://en.wikipedia....ent#In_the_East

and with regards to the missing Eskimos... debunked long long ago too

"The RCMP has since dismissed the case as an urban legend, claiming that the story originated in Frank Edwards' book. The RCMP also states, "It is also believed that such a large village would never have been possible in such a remote area" (despite the fact that the aforementioned book the RCMP references mentions just 30 people and one grave).[3] The RCMP states that it has no record of any unusual activity in the area.[4]

The story was debunked by Brian Dunning in an episode of Skeptoid.

http://en.wikipedia....nishing_village

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4371

.

Edited December 28, 2013 by seeder

[zoser]

God - A new subject and still the same non researched tales by zoser, DONT YOU EVER RESEARCH ANYTHING?

The disappearance stories of David Lang and Oliver Larch are commonly cited hoax examples.

http://en.wikipedia....nd_Oliver_Larch

.

See OP.

Readers may want to familarise themselves with the legend (or fable) of David Lang.

http://voices.yahoo....748.html?cat=38

Possibly fiction I agree.

Please take the trouble to read all posts in the thread carefully before posting.

If in doubt - ask rather than rushing in to try and score points.

Edited December 28, 2013 by zoser

[seeder]

You saying..."Possibly fiction" - doesn't imply you know for sure - do9es it? Else you wouldn't have posted it/mentioned in the first place

But now you do know - so we dont need to see you ever mention it again do we?