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Still Waters

Call for total smacking ban on children

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Pets have more legal protection than children, whose parents should be banned from smacking them, according to the Children's Commissioner for England.

Maggie Atkinson said it was her personal view that the law gives pets and adults more rights to be protected from violence than children, and she would like to see a total ban, with parents facing criminal action for corporal punishment.

http://www.theguardi...arents-smacking

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Pets have more legal protection than children, whose parents should be banned from smacking them, according to the Children's Commissioner for England.

Absolutely untrue, and so a poor basis from which to argue. Ms Atkinson should focus on trying to do the best job she can, rather than trying to justify it by uttering useless sound-bites.

Or perhaps that is the only purpose of her job, in which case why are we - the tax-payer - paying for it?

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This didnt go down to well when the last time a call for smacking to be banned, she needs to make a study of actual beatings and not pat on the head. its the same with Rape, when is it rape?

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This story pops up now and then, Children have the same protection as everyone else. if a child is abused in any way the perpetrators will face court / jail. its wrong to say pets have more protection because its simply not true. the law is clear and i think the vast majority of people parents and non parents know the line between a smack and actual violent abuse. if we done a poll on here im sure most people on here were smacked at some point by a parent.

Edited by stevewinn
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In Australia IIRC is 3 smacks below the shoulder and above the knees only

Its a fact of life that abberant behaviour requires correction ..and the best stimulus is pain. A smack on the behind will suffice. Unfortunately Its retarded parents torturing kids and burning them with cigarettes that require these laws to be written....

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Both pets AND children sometimes need a smack now and then.

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I dont understand how a parent can ever hit a child.

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I dont understand how a parent can ever hit a child.

The majority of children will not respond effectively to 'adult' discipline such as verbally encouraging thoughtfulness about wrongful behaviour. This is because the majority of children are still developing as persons and do not have the psychological tools (developed morality or sense of ethics, altruism, etc) to appreciate why a certain behaviour is wrong simply by contemplating it.

Mild physical discipline fills the gap until the child has exhibited the ability to perform this self-analysis.

Some modern methods, such as withholding material rewards, also do not appropriately fill this gap but instead teach the child merely to appreciate materialism.

Edited by Leonardo
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The majority of children will not respond effectively to 'adult' discipline such as verbally encouraging thoughtfulness about wrongful behaviour. This is because the majority of children are still developing as persons and do not have the psychological tools (developed morality or sense of ethics, altruism, etc) to appreciate why a certain behaviour is wrong simply by contemplating it.

Mild physical discipline fills the gap until the child has exhibited the ability to perform this self-analysis.

Some modern methods, such as withholding material rewards, also do not appropriately fill this gap but instead teach the child merely to appreciate materialism.

The kid would just hide from you what he/she will do but still do it.Hitting kids is likely to cause traumatic experiences instead of decreasing the unwanted behaviour. I really cant understand emotioanlly as well how a parent can ever do it. just horrific.

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The recent trend towards liberal parenting must take at least part of the blame for today's burgoining underclass of feral youth!

I notice the OP link appears in 'The Guardian' ....no surprise there then.

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The kid would just hide from you what he/she will do but still do it.Hitting kids is likely to cause traumatic experiences instead of decreasing the unwanted behaviour. I really cant understand emotioanlly as well how a parent can ever do it. just horrific.

The only emotion a parent should ever have when disciplining their child is love. You are assuming a parent should discipline their child when angry? No, the responsible parent should always wait until they calm down before deciding on how to discipline for bad behaviour.

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The only emotion a parent should ever have when disciplining their child is love. You are assuming a parent should discipline their child when angry? No, the responsible parent should always wait until they calm down before deciding on how to discipline for bad behaviour.

There are other ways to teach your child out of love instead of hitting, especially when it is obvious that hitting a child would damage them. Rewarding is not always about material benefits either.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

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There are other ways to teach your child out of love instead of hitting, especially when it is obvious that hitting a child would damage them. Rewarding is not always about material benefits either.

http://www.apa.org/m...4/spanking.aspx

Just how does a couple of paddles on the bottom "damage" a child?

The studies don't actually show damage from physical discipline. They show that many parents discipline their children while they [the parents] are angry - and this is what causes "psychological issues", as well as that it means those parents may overdo the discipline because they are angry.

Edited by Leonardo
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Just how does a couple of paddles on the bottom "damage" a child?

The studies don't actually show damage from physical discipline. They show that many parents discipline their children while they [the parents] are angry - and this is what causes "psychological issues", as well as that it means those parents may overdo the discipline because they are angry.

it does tell that? LOL. Thanks for giving me yet another opportunity to love my parents and parents in my larger family more. bye bye.

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it does tell that? LOL. Thanks for giving me yet another opportunity to love my parents and parents in my larger family more. bye bye.

As in many areas of science, some researchers disagree about the validity of the studies on physical punishment. Robert Larzelere, PhD, an Oklahoma State University professor who studies parental discipline, was a member of the APA task force who issued his own minority report because he disagreed with the scientific basis of the task force recommendations. While he agrees that parents should reduce their use of physical punishment, he says most of the cited studies are correlational and don’t show a causal link between physical punishment and long-term negative effects for children.

“The studies do not discriminate well between non-abusive and overly severe types of corporal punishment,” Larzelere says. “You get worse outcomes from corporal punishment than from alternative disciplinary techniques only when it is used more severely or as the primary discipline tactic.”

From the very same article you linked to. This agrees with my assessment that 'damage' is caused by the parents disciplining while angry (and overdoing it), not by the fact of the disciplining being physical.

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The only emotion a parent should ever have when disciplining their child is love. You are assuming a parent should discipline their child when angry? No, the responsible parent should always wait until they calm down before deciding on how to discipline for bad behaviour.

My parents waited too long sometimes :w00t: Only on truly serious infractions did I feel the sting of hand on bottom but they were memorable enough that when I had one "coming" the dread of it got to be worse than the event itself :)

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My parents waited too long sometimes :w00t: Only on truly serious infractions did I feel the sting of hand on bottom but they were memorable enough that when I had one "coming" the dread of it got to be worse than the event itself :)

Heh, I was a troublesome child I fear. I know you'll find it hard to believe, but I was a bit of a 'know-it-all' as a child - always questioning and testing my parent's authority. Thank goodness I've grown out of that! :innocent::whistle:

Edited by Leonardo

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It doesn't have to hurt. A tap on the fingers or a swat on the bum will make the child stop and think that mom/dad swatted them. After my daughter got a swat, she would get sent ti her room. After a bit I would call her out and we would discuss why she got the swat. Teaching your child that there are consequences to their actions is a huge lesson for their future. And teaching and guiding them is what a parent's job is.

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Couldn't smack a child or a dog. I always tried reasoning.

Edit: Dogs are easier though.

Edited by Likely Guy
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I was spanked, not beaten, and a kid all the time when I did bad things, and it does indeed act a sort of deterrent. More than once me and my brothers were thinking about doing something stupid and only stopped ourselves over the fear of, "...but if Dad finds out...". Kids are stupid and will do stupid things if left to their own devices, it's just how we are at that age.

You don't need to beat your kids butt until it's blue or give him bruises on his face, just a few smacks on the butt with your hand should be enough if they intentionally do something pretty bad you want to try to make sure they will be less likely to do in the future.

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Going solely by what I have seen for myself, smacking (light or hard), never did any good. It just made the child rebel and test the parents even more. If done often enough, even if not so roughly, it messes with the child's self-esteem. It also gives them mixed signals. I can't count how many times I have come across parents who demand respect from their child, expecting not to be hit or even bitten by said child, and yet there they are doing exactly what they don't want for themselves. That's anything but discipline or at least discipline that is rational and fair. It makes such parents hypocrites, and in my opinion, they have no right to be surprised when their child naturally ends up confused and retaliating.

It's common sense that a child will take note of what they are shown/taught and will perhaps act on it. If you want a child to respect you, just like with an adult for that matter, you have to give a little back. You can't just take because you're the parent. It's not about bending over backwards for the child, playing right into their hands, and letting them off the hook. It's about dealing with a child and the situation in the healthiest way possible. Realising that the child's behaviour is a way of communicating (they don't necessarily want to fight with you), and that such needs to be acknowledged and dealt with carefully, rather than dismissed for a quick slap that while you think/feel is harmless, they do not. It's about getting down to their eye level, firmly but politely explaining what it is they've done that's negative, and doing what you can to turn it into a positive. How that is done depends on the child as an individual and what the parents personally believe will benefit all involved.

Yes it's easier said than done. The parents might need to repeat themselves occasionally, but so long as eye contact is met and kept, the right sort of tone is used and threats aren't made to get the child to co-operate, the hard work will pay off. A lot of parents are only interested in what will give the quickest result but the quickest isn't necessarily the most appropriate nor the most well-balanced. Part of being a good parent is having patience, trying to understand and embrace the child as best as one can, so that they have the chance to do the same.

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Realising that the child's behaviour is a way of communicating (they don't necessarily want to fight with you), and that such needs to be acknowledged and dealt with carefully, rather than dismissed for a quick slap that while you think/feel is harmless, they do not.

I agree that "dismissing bad behaviour with a quick slap" is ineffective, but that does not mean mild corporal punishment cannot be effective when combined with an explanation of why it is necessary. A good parent never just hits their child without explanation.

And yes, once the child has reached a certain level of personal development (this varies by child), dispensing with the physical punishment is preferable.

Edited by Leonardo

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I agree that "dismissing bad behaviour with a quick slap" is ineffective, but that does not mean mild corporal punishment cannot be effective when combined with an explanation of why it is necessary. A good parent never just hits their child without explanation.

And yes, once the child has reached a certain level of personal development (this varies by child), dispensing with the physical punishment is preferable.

beside many other unwanted results, teaching a child through physical punishment as a method is likely to cause them use it in the future as a "legitimate" way to get what they themselves want from others..from their friends or from anybody whom they think they can hit and get away with it due to their authority position.

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The kid would just hide from you what he/she will do but still do it.Hitting kids is likely to cause traumatic experiences instead of decreasing the unwanted behaviour. I really cant understand emotioanlly as well how a parent can ever do it. just horrific.

I never got any emotional trama from getting spanked lol. In fact looking back I feel like I actual deserved a lot of it, being a brat has punishments.

Or we could ONLY "talk" to them, because that works....

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I never got any emotional trama from getting spanked lol. In fact looking back I feel like I actual deserved a lot of it, being a brat has punishments.

they were your parents.you needed them and counted on them physically and emotionally to survive.They hit you even in that case to make you do the things they thought is right when you couldnt understand what is right by yourself. Of course you cant blame them and has to confront to their methods and you still do. Thats the actual trauma and I dont expect the other way.

Anything that can be done by that method can be done in other ways but perhaps in longer periods of time. Though they take time and intelligence to implement they return you a very safe parent -child relationship. if you want to do it the short and risky way hit your child.

I dont think such things can be banned though. it is totally carved in the emotions and the learnings of previous generations. Even wars can be eliminated to a great degree or can come to an end if only for three generations every parent all across the globe could stop doing it but, alas. We like to do it the short way and we love drama.we want to show how athoritative and powerful we are.

Edited by thyra
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