Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1
muslimexorcism

Discussion - muslim and atheist about God

178 posts in this topic

A discussion in Hyde Park- speakers corner between a (mauritanian) muslim and an atheist about God and then between muslim and muslim.

Video Title is in Arabic

Part 1

Part 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is an Atheist vs Muslim debate worth checking out.

Here is another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I am an atheist.But i recognise their will always be a battle for supremacy amongst religions (however batty).Violence pays off. Islam has gained predominance in the UK because butchers are afraid to sell non-Halal meat (even though is produced by cruel, medieval butchering),comedians are afraid to tell jokes about Islam, newspapers afraid to criticise Islam in case it provokes attacks on their colleagues. The Christian Crusaders knew the values of violence as a persuader 500 years ago. So the "merits" of religion (if there are any, I doubt it) is immaterial to whether it becomes universally adopted. Fear will get it adopted. Once it is adopted as the main myth in schools and courts, etc., I am sure the violence will disappear as no longer needed.

Edited by alibongo
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I am an atheist.But i recognise their will always be a battle for supremacy amongst religions (however batty).Violence pays off.

Not only between religions. Wasn't there a battle between democratic America and communist Russia? The bloody history of atheism fighting religion will be written in the future if it has not already been written.

Islam has gained predominance in the UK because butchers are afraid to sell non-Halal meat (even though is produced by cruel, medieval butchering),comedians are afraid to tell jokes about Islam, newspapers afraid to criticise Islam in case it provokes attacks on their colleagues.

R u serious? Islam has spread in the UK, because of halal meat and fear?.....

I don't know but last time i checked, fear makes people run away. Like when they're scared of a lion. It doesn't make people become a muslim out of their own free will. We have white european and black american muslim preachers and thousands of converts, are they doing that out of fear?

jews and many christians butcher the same way so are they spreading their beliefs with food? Why aren't you giving jews a hard time? They sell kosher don't they? Jewish and christian slaughtered meat is halal for a muslim btw. The UK and America are christian countries i think, so it's allowed to eat their meat unless you have 100% proof it's slaughtered in a non-halal way.

I am sure the violence will disappear as no longer needed.

Violence will always be needed. Didn't America throw 2 atomic boms on innocent people in Japan to stop their (the armies) violence? Sometimes you need War to stop War. You need War to bring Peace. Like how America and the Uk fought the Nazis to bring Peace.

I do not agree with America throwing those 2 atomic boms on innocent people in Japan wich is a far greater crime then 9/11. I condone every form of terrorism (including 9/11) be it against muslims or non-muslims. Islam is an organized religion and that includes in War, even though some evil muslims use it to kill innocent people. These evil muslims we have seem always to agree with those evil non-muslims who misquote the Quran to say it supports these kind of acts.

The muslims are doing their best to fight these people and their ideas by lectures, books, articles, imprisonment in Saudi Arabia, rehab centers in Saudi Arabia etc.. So you guys not knowing this doesn't mean muslims aren't condoning terrorism like some say (including the bombs dropped in Japan by America).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advice from converts.Da'wah insha'Allah pbuh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So you guys not knowing this doesn't mean muslims aren't condoning terrorism like some say (including the bombs dropped in Japan by America).

I meant condemning haha, condoning is approving. Have to work on my english, sorry...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

http://www.unexplain...75#entry5030796

Embryology in the Quran

Debunking the so called miracles of the Quran

[media=]

post-142153-0-64595100-1388625852_thumb.

post-142153-0-46694200-1388625871_thumb.

post-142153-0-67612500-1388625914_thumb.

post-142153-0-77339500-1388625935_thumb.

post-142153-0-24635600-1388625945_thumb.

Edited by davros of skaro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can post as much as you want against Islam but it isn't going to stop people converting to islam.

And btw. I'm not really into the scientific facts in The Quran thing although some are true, but muslims shouldnt overdo it. The early muslims didn't use any scientific miracles in the Quran.

The idol worshipping Arabs who were at the top in Arabic poetry were beaten by the Quran. If the Prophet Muhammad was just an extraordinary poet how come nobody (Arab poets in his and this time) could come with something like it while they have the same language at their disposal. Keep in mind the Prophet Muhammad never wrote Poetry or did any poetry as was known among his people and the language he uses as can be read in the hadith is very different than the Quranic language. And the Arabs knew poetry and they knew this wasn't poetry.

I'm more into the linguistic miracle of the Quran, wich muslim preachers like Nouman Ali Khan are doing a great job to explain. He gives you a taste of what the Arabs used to hear when they heared the Quran. Translation doesn't give you the beauty and perfection of the Quranic language used. Even if you don't believe the Quran is not Godly, you should still respect it more than you respect shakespeare or any other poet or writer around. None of them achieved what the Prophet Muhammad achieved. I believe this is because it is the Word of Allaah, but people are going to disagree. When some of the Arab idol worshippers heared the Quran they called the Prophet a Magician, because of the effect it had on them.

The one who just studies this mans life could not come to the conclusion only that he was a real Prophet. Was he a great actor? Was he a liar? Was he crazy? Who tought him about the jewish and christian religion? Was he a poet? Could the Quran be from the devil? Did he practice what he preached? Did he have worldly goals? Did he compromise his message? Did he suffer for his message? How come the arabs didn't make their own quran to defeat him? Etc. People should ask these kinds of questions when studying this mans life and search for answers. My conclusion is that he is a Prophet sent by God.

Even if you don't believe he was a Prophet. I think he should still be respected in many ways. The Jew Micheal H. Hart for example puts him first in the most influential people in the world's history. Some people even labbeled this Micheal guy as a racist for a book he brought out and some of his statements and maybe rightly so, so he's not biased or anything.

Atheists follow Richard Dawkins the so called prophet of atheism and i follow the Prophet Muhammad. Richard Dawkins and his teachings will be forgotten in the future and the message and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad will never be forgotten untill the end of times.

So you can warn against the muslims as much as you want davros of skaro but we're not going anywere. That's why the world sees us as a threat now. People would rather have their children be gay than muslim, as has been told by many converts who became muslim and some have suffered by this choice of theirs from parents, friends, family members, teachers, work, school etc..

May Allaah guide you... The worst enemies of islam have become muslim and rolemodels for the muslims, so i wouldn't be suprised if you did.

Nouman Ali Khan - Linguistic miracle of the Quran - Part 1

Nouman Ali Khan - Linguistic miracle of the Quran - Part 2

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just as a side note, my people/race, my ancestors the Amazigh (north Africa) have fought islam and have entered into islam and left it about 11 times as the historian ibn khaldun mentioned and after that they became muslim and stayed muslim. And here i am as an Amazigh from Morocco following Islam and having no doubt in it whatsoever.

The muslims are very strong as a people both intelectually and physically when they truly follow islam in belief, word and deed. The great islamic scholar Ibn Taymiyya for example brought the greek philosophers to their knees intellectually. So i do not know why people are suprised of islam being the fastest growing religion in the world. Why are all these people converting if they are not somehow intelectually satisfied with the answers islam provides them.

Most atheists think of themselves as smart people and religious people as dumb or simple minded and they are not ashamed to say that as has been seen in a topic of mine about the jinn. Their arrogance will destroy them someday. Human beings do not like arrogance, especially when it is accompanied with ridiculing others. The Farao mentioned in the Quran reminds me of many atheists. Haven't come across many who act humble and try to be nice when calling to their beliefs or refuting other beliefs. The jews and the christians are far better than the atheists in my opinion.

Just as a side note, my people/race, my ancestors the Amazigh (north Africa) have fought islam and have entered into islam and left it about 11 times as the historian ibn khaldun mentioned and after that they became muslim a

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can post as much as you want against Islam but it isn't going to stop people

converting to islam.

I know I cannot stop Islam converts, but at least I will give them something to think

about.Just like many Religions they give what is refered to as "Milk before the Meat",

which is the feel good version of their beliefs, before telling what it's really about.I

do not post for you, but post to counter the spread of your infection.

And btw. I'm not really into the scientific facts in The Quran thing although some are

true, but muslims shouldnt overdo it. The early muslims didn't use any scientific miracles

in the Quran.

I would love to see some info on some of these true scientific facts in the Quran.Early

Muslims were pushing away science (As outlined by Dr Tyson.)

The idol worshipping Arabs who were at the top in Arabic poetry were beaten by the Quran.

If the Prophet Muhammad was just an extraordinary poet how come nobody (Arab poets in his

and this time) could come with something like it while they have the same language at

their disposal. Keep in mind the Prophet Muhammad never wrote Poetry or did any poetry as

was known among his people and the language he uses as can be read in the hadith is very

different than the Quranic language. And the Arabs knew poetry and they knew this wasn't

poetry.

Muhhamad was iliterate in that his followers, and 1 of his 13 wives Aisha put his sayings

together after his death.The idea that the omnipotent, omnipresent creator of the universe

used poetry through a prophet to convey an all important message is very lame to me, and

should be to anyone else looking for honest truth.There is no poetry about making a

microscope to identify diseases, yet says not to Urinate standing up for one example.

I'm more into the linguistic miracle of the Quran, wich muslim preachers like Nouman Ali

Khan are doing a great job to explain. He gives you a taste of what the Arabs used to hear

when they heared the Quran. Translation doesn't give you the beauty and perfection of the

Quranic language used. Even if you don't believe the Quran is not Godly, you should still

respect it more than you respect shakespeare or any other poet or writer around. None of

them achieved what the Prophet Muhammad achieved. I believe this is because it is the Word

of Allaah, but people are going to disagree. When some of the Arab idol worshippers heared

the Quran they called the Prophet a Magician, because of the effect it had on them.

When I am moved by an artistic expression wether it be a movie, a painting, or a verse, I

do not put superstitious attributes to it.Why should I respect something more that is

based on something blatently false (Bible), and rewrites it for a new audience as absolute

truth?Shakespeare is guilty of bending histories to fit his plays, but people do not have

tables set up on city streets getting people to believe Shakespeare.

The one who just studies this mans life could not come to the conclusion only that he was

a real Prophet. Was he a great actor? Was he a liar? Was he crazy? Who tought him about

the jewish and christian religion? Was he a poet? Could the Quran be from the devil? Did

he practice what he preached? Did he have worldly goals? Did he compromise his message?

Did he suffer for his message? How come the arabs didn't make their own quran to defeat

him? Etc. People should ask these kinds of questions when studying this mans life and

search for answers. My conclusion is that he is a Prophet sent by God.

God should have told him to wait till his 9 year old wife was at the very least 16 till he

took her into his Bed, because educated nonsuperstitious people in the future will look

down on it.

Even if you don't believe he was a Prophet. I think he should still be respected in many

ways. The Jew Micheal H. Hart for example puts him first in the most influential people in

the world's history. Some people even labbeled this Micheal guy as a racist for a book he

brought out and some of his statements and maybe rightly so, so he's not biased or

anything.

Why should I respect a guy that took much older made up myths, and used it to take over

lucrative trade routes to enrich himself?I wonder if his mandated poor tax actually went

to the poor?

Atheists follow Richard Dawkins the so called prophet of atheism and i follow the Prophet

Muhammad. Richard Dawkins and his teachings will be forgotten in the future and the

message and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad will never be forgotten untill the end of

times.

Richard Dawkins is a scientist which is a system of knowledge based on evidence.A prophet

is someone that others believe based on no evidence.

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the

world.-Richard Dawkins

Dawkins will be remembered as a Man of reason, and for his contributions to reason for

many generations to come. that's if Religion does not destroy us first.

So you can warn against the muslims as much as you want davros of skaro but we're not

going anywere. That's why the world sees us as a threat now. People would rather have

their children be gay than muslim, as has been told by many converts who became muslim and

some have suffered by this choice of theirs from parents, friends, family members,

teachers, work, school etc..

People are waking up to the surrender to ignorrance Religion represents.I rather my

children be free thinkers first before anything else.Yes Religion divides people, so

that's not anything new.Apostates from Islam are under a death penalty, so I see how that

can cause conflict.

May Allaah guide you... The worst enemies of islam have become muslim and rolemodels for

the muslims, so i wouldn't be suprised if you did.

You can keep your imaginary friend along with the fictional characters named Adam, Abraham, Noah, Moses, and Jesus.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPFbZslKqn4

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just as a side note, my people/race, my ancestors the Amazigh (north Africa) have fought islam and have entered into islam and left it about 11 times as the historian ibn khaldun mentioned and after that they became muslim and stayed muslim. And here i am as an Amazigh from Morocco following Islam and having no doubt in it whatsoever.

The muslims are very strong as a people both intelectually and physically when they truly follow islam in belief, word and deed. The great islamic scholar Ibn Taymiyya for example brought the greek philosophers to their knees intellectually. So i do not know why people are suprised of islam being the fastest growing religion in the world. Why are all these people converting if they are not somehow intelectually satisfied with the answers islam provides them.

Most atheists think of themselves as smart people and religious people as dumb or simple minded and they are not ashamed to say that as has been seen in a topic of mine about the jinn. Their arrogance will destroy them someday. Human beings do not like arrogance, especially when it is accompanied with ridiculing others. The Farao mentioned in the Quran reminds me of many atheists. Haven't come across many who act humble and try to be nice when calling to their beliefs or refuting other beliefs. The jews and the christians are far better than the atheists in my opinion.

Just as a side note, my people/race, my ancestors the Amazigh (north Africa) have fought islam and have entered into islam and left it about 11 times as the historian ibn khaldun mentioned and after that they became muslim a

What Greek philosophers brought to their knees intellectually are you talking about? Ibn Taymiyya was born in the 13th century CE.If you are talking about the ancient Greek philosophers born many centuries before then here is a list of supposed Ibn Taymiyya qoutes for anyone wishing to compare ancient Greek philosopher qoutes of their choice to Ibn Taymiyya.

http://turntoislam.com/community/threads/inspirational-quotes-from-ibn-taymiyyah.52947/

Greek philosophy qoutes.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spread of faith

Ahmadis denounce the usage of a sword or any other form of coercion as a method of the propagation of the Islamic faith. In contrast to some of the commonly held views that historically Islam was spread by force, Ahmadis maintain that early Muslims did not take up the sword in order to spread their faith, but rather for the preservation of life. In particular, the founder of the movement, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad stated that when Islam began gaining converts upon its birth, there was an ever increasing tension against the new converts by the pagans of Mecca, which resulted in them being severely persecuted for many years. After many years of patience, the Muslim converts migrated to the neighbouring city of Medina. This did not stop persecuting the Muslims. They were pursued by the Pagans and it was only then that the Muslims first took up the sword in order to defend their lives.[1]

Ahmadis denounce the usage of a sword as an Islamic concept with support from the Qur'an which according to them categorically rejects any form of coercion in religion. The Qur'an states: “ There is no compulsion in religion

—The Qur'an 2:256

Terrorism

The fourth Caliph, of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, Mirza Tahir Ahmad states: “ As far as Islam is concerned, it categorically rejects and condemns every form of terrorism. It does not provide any cover or justification for any act of violence, be it committed by an individual, a group or a government..... I most strongly condemn all acts and forms of terrorism because it is my deeply rooted belief that not only Islam but also no true religion, whatever its name, can sanction violence and bloodshed of innocent men, women and children in the name of God

Murder the Name of Allah - Mirza Tahir Ahmad

[2]

Views on Jihad

Batalvi advocated "to wield the pen" rather than resorting to the use of force and militant means, He wrote:

Some of our Muslim brothers believe that the present misfortunes of the followers of Islam cannot be removed without the sword. It is no use acquiring worldly education. However, looking at the present condition of the Muslims, this belief appears improbable."..."Brethren! the age of the sword is no more. Now instead of the sword it is necessary to wield the pen. How can the sword come into the hands of the Muslims when they have no hands. They have no national identity or existence. In such a useless and weak condition, to consider them as a nation is to exceed the imagination of Shaikh Chilli [a proverbial, comical figure in Urdu fiction].

In his book, " Iqtisaad-fi-Massaiil-Jihad” Molvi Muhammad Hussain wrote: "It is haram [prohibited] to wage Jihad against the British."[12][13]

  • wiki Molvi Muhammad Hussain Batalvi link

We should give this Jihad of the Pen more voice rather than those that is for a Jihad of the Sword ... or bombs ...

Mission

The Muslim Writers Guild of America seeks to:

1) Respond rapidly to media coverage of Islam through letters and editorials

2) Respond systematically to critics of Islam through scholarly rejoinders. The group endeavors to defend the honor and sanctity of Islam by waging a “jihad of the pen.”

  • Muslim Writers Guild of America link

~edit - java script nonsense

Edited by third_eye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just like Christianity, Islam has different divisions, and sects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just like many Religions they give what is refered to as "Milk before the Meat",

which is the feel good version of their beliefs, before telling what it's really about.

With respect, Davros, but that is not what it means when we refer to "milk before the meat". The idea of giving milk before solid food is based on the idea that religious beliefs are not a simple thing to understand, and so it's good to get the basics out of the way before dealing with issues that are more theologically complex.

In a very real sense, every school institution does the same thing today. An average year 9 student studying Year 9 Science is being given "milk" in preparation of more advanced concepts, leading to "solid food" and possibly to the point that one day in the future this person could sit in a university lecture on Advanced Physics and understand what is happening. Imaging giving advanced concepts of science to an average year 9 student before they've had a chance to digest the basics?

We Christians simply use the phrase "milk and solid food" because this is the analogy presented to us by the Bible in 1 Corinthians, which is an extension of Jesus' comments that we are "born again". Being born as new spiritual beings, we are given spiritual milk just as a baby, before moving on to solid food. What the phrase is NOT, is your assertion that it's another way of giving the feel-good version of our beliefs before telling what it really is about.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With respect, Davros, but that is not what it means when we refer to "milk before the meat". The idea of giving milk before solid food is based on the idea that religious beliefs are not a simple thing to understand, and so it's good to get the basics out of the way before dealing with issues that are more theologically complex.

In a very real sense, every school institution does the same thing today. An average year 9 student studying Year 9 Science is being given "milk" in preparation of more advanced concepts, leading to "solid food" and possibly to the point that one day in the future this person could sit in a university lecture on Advanced Physics and understand what is happening. Imaging giving advanced concepts of science to an average year 9 student before they've had a chance to digest the basics?

We Christians simply use the phrase "milk and solid food" because this is the analogy presented to us by the Bible in 1 Corinthians, which is an extension of Jesus' comments that we are "born again". Being born as new spiritual beings, we are given spiritual milk just as a baby, before moving on to solid food. What the phrase is NOT, is your assertion that it's another way of giving the feel-good version of our beliefs before telling what it really is about.

Ok thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Commission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawah

Milk;

http://christianity.about.com/od/prayersverses/qt/inspirationalbv.htm

http://www.spiritualliving360.com/index.php/beautiful-and-inspirational-verses-from-the-qu

ran-3888/

Meat;

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Believe_it_or_Not/ar/t304.htm

http://www.truthdig.com/images/diguploads/verses.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_hN4V2RsSM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you summarise the content of your reply, and how it related to my comments, please? Most interesting, I found that under the title "milk" you linked to inspirational verses and under the heading "meat" you linked to verses including a video entitled "why the Bible is disgusting".

I find it interesting that you don't think "solid foods" could include topics of great inspiration. I'd like to explore why you think that is, because it's simply not true.

Edited by Paranoid Android

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you summarise the content of your reply, and how it related to my comments, please? Most interesting, I found that under the title "milk" you linked to inspirational verses and under the heading "meat" you linked to verses including a video entitled "why the Bible is disgusting".

I find it interesting that you don't think "solid foods" could include topics of great inspiration. I'd like to explore why you think that is, because it's simply not true.

Ok how about changing "Milk" to Cherry, and "Meat" to Pit.Does that make more sense?

Let me ask you something?Do you believe that the God you worship can do absolutely anything if it wishes to do? For example if it so desired can it make everyone on the planet have a Duck's Bill on their face, or turn the entire Earth's crust into solid lead?

Just for good measure do you think your God can make the entire Universe completely gone, and leave our Solar system intact?

Does your God have limits?

Edited by davros of skaro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok how about changing "Milk" to Cherry, and "Meat" to Pit.Does that make more sense?

Ahh, but that's not what I was addressing! I addressed your assertion for what religion gives people that THEY refer to as meat before milk, before clarifying that this is the feel good version before the real thing.

If you're now changing your argument to the cherry and the pit, that is your choice. But you must first acknowledge the error in your first argument about the milk and the meat, for it is completely wrong from the content you implied.

Let me ask you something?Do you believe that the God you worship can do absolutely anything if it wishes to do? For example if it so desired can it make everyone on the planet have a Duck's Bill on their face, or turn the entire Earth's crust into solid lead?

Just for good measure do you think your God can make the entire Universe completely gone, and leave our Solar system intact?

Does your God have limits?

I believe that God can do anything that is within his character to do. That doesn't mean I believe God WILL do anything within its character, and certainly it won't do anything not in its character.

Why would you ask this, davros?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Essential Resources for Reference :

Yale Center for Faith and Culture

Resource Center

We offer a sampling of the current work that the center staff is conducting, in the form of papers and webcasts. These materialsare updated regularly, so please check back for new information from time to time.

To conduct your research, please select from the categories in the sidebar at left. Note that you may also use the Search button, top right, to conduct a keyword search of the entire website.

About Us

Welcome to the

Yale Center for Faith and Culture

The mission of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture is to critically examine and promote practices of faith which advance authentic human flourishing and the global common good.

  • Yale Uni mission goals link

pdf resources a plenty available for download

~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know I cannot stop Islam converts, but at least I will give them something to think

about.Just like many Religions they give what is refered to as "Milk before the Meat",

which is the feel good version of their beliefs, before telling what it's really about.

Yes sure, 9/11 was supposed to scare many people of the muslims although the 2 atomic bombs dropped by America on Japan was a far greater crime and terrorism and many are scared of islam but many have also taken the time to research this "bloodthirsty" religion and became muslim.

Milk before the meat... That's impossible in this time, because of the media war against islam and the access of internet and people like you. Milk and Meat are both delicious food btw.. So your argument doesn't stand.

It's more of starting with the things of most importance and building the fundamentals before going to the less important issues, like when the Prophet Muhammad sent one of his companions to Yemen to call the Jews and Christians there to islam. Read the hadith:

It is reported on the authority of Ibn `Abbas (ra) that Allah's Messenger said when he sent Mu`aaz (ra) to Yemen: "You are going to a people who are from the People of the Book: So the first thing to which you call them should be the testimony that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah ." - And in another narration: "that they testify to the Oneness of Allah ." - "And if they obey you in that, then inform them that Allah has made compulsory upon them five prayers every day and night. And if they obey you in that, then inform them that Allah has made incumbent upon them a charity (Zakah) which is to be taken from the rich among them and given to their poor. And if they obey you in that then be careful not to take the best of their wealth (as Zakah), and be careful of the supplication of those who have suffered injustice, for there is no obstacle between it and Allah . (Narrated by Bukhari and Muslim)

I do not post for you, but post to counter the spread of your infection.

Why would you do this for? You as an atheist believe to become non existent after death, so why should you care what happens to mankind after your death when you believe to become nothing after death, no feelings etc..

Muhhamad was iliterate in that his followers, and 1 of his 13 wives Aisha put his sayings

together after his death.The idea that the omnipotent, omnipresent creator of the universe

used poetry through a prophet to convey an all important message is very lame to me, and

should be to anyone else looking for honest truth.There is no poetry about making a

microscope to identify diseases, yet says not to Urinate standing up for one example.

Yes the Prophet Muhammad was iliterate but that just strengthens our case as muslims of him being a Prophet. How did he know about the different Prophets and stories in the bible when he did not have access to it and could not read nor write. Who did he sit with to teach him these things? How come he corrected many things from the bible, like in the Quran Prophet yusuf was said to have lived in the time of a king in egypt not a pharao, while in the bible it says pharao and it turned out to be correct historically. And haman in the Quran was said to have worked for the Farao, while you do not find that in the bible. But you do find haman working for a king in one of their books and they used that to say Muhammad made a mistake. While now they found out that the Quran was correct and he did work for a Pharao. Did the Prophet Muhammad have access to ancient egyptian documents and could he read this language that was dead in his time? He even corrected the christians in that the Devil was not an Angel but a Jinn. Angels do not disobey Allaah. These corrections are not for nothing. There's a huge difference when comparing the stories of the Prophets in the Bible and Quran. I have read some things in the bible wich I cannot believe a Prophet, a Messenger of God could do as they are examples for the Human beings. Compare for yourself to see. The Quran is very precise to the last detail, for example Moses when he talks to Banu israiel (the jews) in his time calls them "O my people", Jesus in the Quran does not say " O my people" because his people (the jews) did not accept him and he was miraculously born without a father (ethnicity comes from the father). Jesus in the Quran Says "O sons of Israel". So the Quran is precise in such small details. I could give many more examples. Remember that the Quran was not written down originally, it is spoken. You have much more time to think when writing something than speaking it. Listen to the talk of the linguistic miracle of the Quran Nouman Ali Khan i posted earlier.

The Quran is perfection even though the language that is used is the same language the Arabs use, so why could they not make their own Quran. Another example to show the greatness of the Quran is the amount of rethorical devices it uses in one small surah (chapter) (surah al-kawthar) wich consists of 10 words in Arabic. How many does it use do you think? It uses over 30 rethorical devices. No man can use over 30 rethorical devices in 10 words, not the best poet nor the best rapper nor the best writer. Let alone the rest of the Quran.

Even if you believe it is still not Godly, then respect it as literature. Even the Arab idol worshippers could not help but be amazed by the Quran, so far even that they described it as being magic. What does magic do to people when they see a magic trick? It leaves them speechless unless they know the trick. The thing is, there is no trick about the Quran. It is from Allaah, that's why it's so incredible. That's why Allaah challenged them to make one chapter like it and everybody failed and they will never make something like it.

The Prophet Moses came in a time when magic was amazing and he came with his miracles like a stick turning into a snake, splitting the sea in two etc.

The Prophet Jesus came in a time when medicine was amazing and he came with his miracles like bringing the dead back to life etc.

The Prophet Muhammad came in a time when poetry and language was amazing and he came with the Quran wich is a miracle since it is outside of the capacity of a human being to produce something like it and that is why the arab idol worshippers called it magic. They were speechless by it's speech.

When I am moved by an artistic expression wether it be a movie, a painting, or a verse, I

do not put superstitious attributes to it.Why should I respect something more that is

based on something blatently false (Bible), and rewrites it for a new audience as absolute

truth?Shakespeare is guilty of bending histories to fit his plays, but people do not have

tables set up on city streets getting people to believe Shakespeare.

I already explained to you above it's not just about being moved by it. Also Nouman Ali Khan talks about what you mentioned in his talk about the linguistic miracle of the Quran.

The Bible is not completely False. We as muslims believe it contains the word of God but it also contains the word of Man. That wich does not go against the Quran we as muslims do not say it is truth nor false.

God should have told him to wait till his 9 year old wife was at the very least 16 till he

took her into his Bed, because educated nonsuperstitious people in the future will look

down on it.

if these people were really educated than they would not be looking down at this fact. This just came up in our times to character assasinate the Prophet Muhammad because they could not handle his message although his enemies in the past from the jews, christians and idol worshippers did not use this against him as this was considered completely normal at that time. But you should let Aaisha one of the learned woman muslim scholars of Islam speak for herself as she has said that she is a woman at 9 years old. There is no damage whatsoever from that marriage. You looking down at something from the past does not mean that it is wrong.

Why should I respect a guy that took much older made up myths, and used it to take over

lucrative trade routes to enrich himself?I wonder if his mandated poor tax actually went

to the poor?

...more character assasination... The Prophet Muhammad lived as a poor man wich you would have known if you were really looking for the truth. 23 years of preaching and suffering untill his deathbed were he told them not to worship him and not to take his grave as a place of worship was to take over lucrative trade routes to enrich himself? He didn't do it for the women either even though he had many. If he really did it for women he would have married the most beautifull and young women. Most of his wives were widows and some were old and marrying them was also in the benefit of his message. Before Khadijah died he only had one wife.

Richard Dawkins is a scientist which is a system of knowledge based on evidence.A prophet

is someone that others believe based on no evidence.

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the

world.-Richard Dawkins

Dawkins will be remembered as a Man of reason, and for his contributions to reason for

many generations to come. that's if Religion does not destroy us first.

We believe based upon miracles and also intellectually we can come to the conclusion he was a Prophet by studying someones life, message etc.. The Quran is still here and it is a miracle. You can argue not because of lack of knowledge of the Arabic language. I suggest you listen to Nouman Ali Khan were he explains why we believe it is a miracle. The idol worshippers calling it magic speaks for itsself. I used to listen to rap wich is a kind of poetry in the past, but i would never describe it as magic. Not in its meaning nor in its language. Remember that these guys were masters at the arabic language. They had the best Arab poets in that Time, so describing it as magic does make one think. Why were they so amazed by it? What did they see what i did not?

People are waking up to the surrender to ignorrance Religion represents.I rather my

children be free thinkers first before anything else.Yes Religion divides people, so

that's not anything new.Apostates from Islam are under a death penalty, so I see how that

can cause conflict.

I hope you and your children become muslim. Who's going to give apostates of Islam the death penalty in America, Europe and even many of the islamic countries? The death penalty can only be given in a court and of course he is asked to come back to islam before the death penalty. So basically he is given the choice to either come back to islam, or pretend he's a muslim and live as a hypocrite or he can choose death. It's not like somone who says i'm not a muslim anymore gets his head chopped of right away or by anyone. You can say this is barbaric, but England also has a death penalty for treason i think. Some states in the US still have death penalties. Go solve that problem first before complaining about death penalties in islam and harsh punishments wich nobody really has to fear as long as they abide by the law. You should also understand that disbelief for us is a greater crime than murder.

You can keep your imaginary friend along with the fictional characters named Adam, Abraham, Noah, Moses, and Jesus.

Yea sure, and you're the only real person alive. People will forget you and Richard Dawkins in the future but they will remember these great names of these great people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes sure, 9/11 was supposed to scare many people of the muslims although the 2 atomic bombs dropped by America on Japan was a far greater crime and terrorism and many are scared of islam but many have also taken the time to research this "bloodthirsty" religion and became muslim.

Comparing two events where thousands were killed and giving these events a quality each to be able to compare these to judge about a factor of devilishness, is disgusting.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What Greek philosophers brought to their knees intellectually are you talking about? Ibn Taymiyya was born in the 13th century CE.If you are talking about the ancient Greek philosophers born many centuries before then here is a list of supposed Ibn Taymiyya qoutes for anyone wishing to compare ancient Greek philosopher qoutes of their choice to Ibn Taymiyya.

Some greek philosophy quotes video...

Are you seriously comparing quotes by Ibn Taymiyya and greek philosophers? I'm sure both of them have great quotes but that wasn't my point.

My point was the book he wrote refuting their fundamentals, the summary of the book is available in English and in PDF form for those interested.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comparing two events where thousands were killed and giving these events a quality each to be able to compare these to judge about a factor of devilishness, is disgusting.

What's disgusting about comparing the amount of people killed by a serial killer and a murderer who killed once or twice?

Throwing 2 atomic bombs and destroying two innocent cities with people is a much worse crime than destroying 2 innocent buildings with people. Both of them are wrong, but my point is when people talk about islam being a religion of terrorism with these kind of examples they seem to forget that America has done much worse. Does a wrong decision by some Americans make all the people of America terrorists? No!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We should give this Jihad of the Pen more voice rather than those that is for a Jihad of the Sword ... or bombs ...

I agree completely with you on this although I'm not an ahmadiyya follower but a Sunni muslim. The Ahmadiyya believe in a Prophet after the Prophet Muhammad and we do not. We believe the Prophet Muhammad is the last Prophet. We can argue who's right and wrong as has been already done but lets just stay with the mainstream sunni muslims who are known for 1400 years and are the majority although they too have differences.

Differences does not mean islam is mistaken, on the contrary it is one of the prophecies the Prophet Muhammad made that the muslims will divide like the jews and the christians have divided into sects.

Suicide bombing is in and of itsself wrong in islam and considered an innovation, because this was not ever done by The Prophet or his companions and suicide is not allowed in islam. Fighting is only done in war soldier vs soldier and no innocent people should be harmed like people who don't carry weapons, women, children, elderly. And the Prophet has tought us how to behave in War and while in peace. So what these evil people from the muslims are doing of terrorism in and outside muslim countries is wrong, these people do not possess islamic knowledge. If we were literally ordered to kill everybody then there would not be any disbeliever left in any of the islamic countries. Also fighting is not done only if an islamic leader orders to and in defence and we do not fight those that have peace with us even if they may harm muslims in their or other countries. There are many other rules with their evidences from the Quran and Sunnah. And of course we do not rape women and treat the captives badly, the Prophet has also learned us the rights of the prisoner like eating, drinking etc..

About The Prophet, Ibn al-Qayyim the student of Ibn Taymiyyah says:

Ibn Al-Qayyim said, “The Prophet never forced the religion upon anyone, but rather he only fought those who waged war against him and fought him first. As for those who made peace with him or conducted a truce, then he never fought them and he never compelled them to enter his religion, as his Lord the Almighty had commanded him: There is no compulsion in religion, for right guidance is distinct from error (2:256). The negation in the verse carries the meaning of prohibition, namely, you may not force your religion upon anyone.”

Source: Hidayat Al-Hayara 237

Ibn Taymiyya himself says:

Ibn Taymiyyah said, “The Prophet’s biography shows that he did not fight whoever made peace with him among the unbelievers. The books of biography, prophetic traditions, exegesis, jurisprudence, and history are full of such acts and this is widely narrated in his biography. Thus, the Prophet did not initiate fighting with anyone, and had Allah commanded him to fight every disbeliever, then he would have initiated fighting with them.”

Source: Qa’idah fi Qital Al-Kuffar

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me ask you something?Do you believe that the God you worship can do absolutely anything if it wishes to do? For example if it so desired can it make everyone on the planet have a Duck's Bill on their face, or turn the entire Earth's crust into solid lead?

Just for good measure do you think your God can make the entire Universe completely gone, and leave our Solar system intact?

Does your God have limits?

Omnipotence Paradox

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said: As for Ahl al-Sunnah, in their view Allah, may He be exalted, has power over all things, and everything that is possible is included in that. As for that which is inherently impossible, such as a thing both existing and being non-existent, there is no reality in it and its existence cannot be imagined, so it cannot be called a "thing" according to the consensus of the wise. This includes the idea of creating another like Himself, and so on. End quote from Manhaj al-Sunnah (2/294).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allah have mercy on him) said in Shifa' al-'Aleel (p. 374): Because that which is impossible is not a "thing", so His Power has nothing to do with it. Allah has power over all things and no possible thing is beyond His power. End quote.

Source and further explanation: Can God become a Man:

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_s_article__allah_s_omnipotence_and_the_incarnation_

Edited by muslimexorcism

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.