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RedSquirrel

What kind of proof is needed?

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I'm a bit nervous as I'm not much of a conversation starter. Here goes:

What would it take for you to believe in ghosts? As a disclaimer, I do not believe there is any evidence for ghosts, but the topic intrigues me deeply.

We know photos and videos can be faked.

We know that scientists can be fooled (it's rare, but it can happen).

Me personally? I would want to experience it myself. I would want verification of my event.

Perfect set up (for me): 'Haunted' location, myself. Video cameras on 100% of the time. No lights off. A team of at least four skeptics. I would want all five of us to experience the same thing at the same time. I would want said experience to repeat several times.

No EVP needed, no dramatic music. Just a well lit, repeated experience. Then, I would believe there is evidence for something we cannot explain.

What would you want, what would it take for you to consider it possible?

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That's actually a pretty good converstion starter.

I neither believe or disbelieve in ghosts. But, you ask the question, what would it take for me at least to consider it possible?

A direct experience would be a good start. Thus far it hasn't happened. Are ghosts that rare? I don't know and cannot say.

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There are some well documented solid stories around. Since soul is an energetic entity i personaly believe it is possible under certain circumstances to wonder and gain consciousness. Further more there are numerous energetic beings highly advanced tehnologically and we cal them God or Aliens...etc...so yes it is very much possible.

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I believe because I saw a ghost once when I was young (a blonde woman in a flowing white gown in my living room. No, I wasn't asleep or dreaming or confused. I know what I saw) My parents and I also heard a ghost falling down our spiral staircase pretty much every night. It wasn't the house creaking or anything else. Someone falling down a set of stairs makes a distinct sound. I also felt a presence two separate times although I don't believe that those were ghosts as both times it was the most concentrated evil I have ever felt in my life.

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I would have to experience it. And not in bed either or else I may suspect when I wake up the next day that it was a dream or something.

Just me like chilling around at night then all a sudden a ghost walks up.

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I would have to experience it. And not in bed either or else I may suspect when I wake up the next day that it was a dream or something.

Just me like chilling around at night then all a sudden a ghost walks up.

Ghost "Sup man, I'm Bob. Noticed you chillin', thought maybe you could share some of those nachos."

Sorry, just had to be said. That'd probably do it for me too, haha.

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Posted (edited)

Ghost "Sup man, I'm Bob. Noticed you chillin', thought maybe you could share some of those nachos."

Sorry, just had to be said. That'd probably do it for me too, haha.

lol . See that's the kind of ghost I want to be visited by, the kind that's just like whats up dude :yes:. Not those creepy ones that just open random doors and watch you sleep

Edited by spartan max2

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I believe in ghosts because I've had several encounters with them. With that said, I don't think it is possible to effectively prove to another person that ghosts exist. Stories can be fabricated, and videos and photos are incredibly easy to fake. If I had not seen them myself, I doubt I'd believe in them either.

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What would you want, what would it take for you to consider it possible?

I do consider it possible that ghosts exist. I really hope they do!

however, for me to actually believe it one hundred percent I would have to have an experience with one that I could not discount as something else, or it would have to be proven scientifically somehow.

I think there are a lot of 'stories' out there and a lot of gullible people as well. this doesn't mean I don't believe in the possibility, just that I don't believe most people's accounts on the internet forums such as these.

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I think that for ''ghosts'' to be be proven, we have to determine what de we mean by ghosts? Are we refering to the spirit of a dead one, a non-humain being, a projection of the mind ect? The nature of the phenomenon itself has not been established conclusively, investigators in this field are working with highly speculative hypothesises and theories.

As to prove that 'ghosts' do exists, that depend to who you ask this question. Some will respond that it as already been proven to them with experiences, recordings and footages which they can have a full trust of the source that provided it. Others will disregard such evidences as been presented to them as unconclusive or unscientific. The standard is not the same for all.

I think we are more looking a for a consensus. There is none to be found concerning 'ghosts' in our societies. The mainstream scientific communauty do not consider the phenomenon to be legitimate. In my view, for the wind to change it will take some kind of groundbreaking discovery in physics or neurobiology for instance. But even if that comes to be, which is far from a certainty (maybe we will never know) I do not expect that it would be easily accepted by all. For as much as the belief is deeply anchored in some people that may well be themselves wrong, it is also true for disbelieve in others. It is true that while certain people have advocated for the existence of ghosts all their lives, other have advocated against it. So, a revolution in science, that may well be what it would take.

Edited by sam_comm

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My faith gets in the way of believing in ghosts. The bible says it is appointed unto man ONCE to die - and then the judgement. So we can scratch reincarnation as well :)

The bible, AFAIK, does not mention them with the exception of Samuel being summoned by the witch of Endor - and THAT scared the crap out of even HER. I feel that was a direct intervention by God because even Samuel wanted to know why Saul was bothering him! The bible OFTEN mentions demons and demonic activity though. So seeing something "not of this world" would immediately set me on guard against a demonic presence. In spite of this though, if I had a personal experience it would probably rattle my cage pretty well :w00t:

The closest thing to an encounter I have ever had was feeling a very malignant, threatening presence in a bedroom of a home we had recently purchased and were renovating. I could walk past the door to that room and if it were ajar at all I could FEEL the anger coming out. Olive oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit so I bought a bottle and prayed over it for God to bless and keep my home free from evil. I then went around to all the doors and windows of the room and dipped a finger in the oil and made a cross over each opening. The presence ended the same day and I still sleep in that room from time to time with no discomfort at all. Silly? Maybe - but it worked and that's all that matters :)

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A tested and verified mechanism for these ghosts to exist and operate. What are they made from? Are they intelligent? etc

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I find it hard to believe that ghosts exist. Even with all the things I've read from people's experiences, deep down I'm not convinced that what they've seen isn't just in their imaginations, especially people who desperately want to see a ghost. The mind can play such wonderful tricks at times.

That said, if someone claims to have seen a ghost then who am I to say otherwise. Whatever I'm thinking about their claims, I don't know if they have or not. A friend of mine told me he'd seen the ghost of his late mother, perhaps he did, there's no doubt in his mind at all.

For myself I'd have to see a ghost, it would have to be of someone I can relate to like a family member. Also while I was wide awake so to rule out any form of dreaming. That would be the only thing that would convince me I think.

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I'm already a believer in ghosts. I don't even consider my own experiences as proof that they exist. I'm not sure what I would consider proof really. I'd like to say an awesome array of brilliant minds well equipped and a serious long study turning up irrefutable weird. But I'm not sure that would equate to proof of ghosts for me, or at least not ghosts specifically.

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Reply to "and then": I don't have the book/chapter/verse but I remember something that caught my ear from the Bible once which seems to either explain the phenomenon or deepens the mystery: a conversation is going on in heaven when *someone* volunteers to "go forth as a lying spirit".

Left me thinking all instances of ghostly evidence could be manufactured by that *whatever* it was. Why would God want such a thing in he world? Well, to create division, perhaps. Didn't Jesus say; "think not that I am come to bring peace in the world, but a sword..." meaning, imo, division. Something for which there is a great abundance in the world.

Same could apply to UFOs, they could be lies to test believers faith.

As far as what constitutes proof for me, I've captured EVPs. I once captured a little girl asking "Can you play with me?" Years later I was watching Ghost Adventures and they caught the same EVP! I would say that was very strong evidence for me but my perceptions are clouded by what I said above. Either way it proves [to me] *something* is going on.

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I'm a bit nervous as I'm not much of a conversation starter. Here goes:

What would it take for you to believe in ghosts? As a disclaimer, I do not believe there is any evidence for ghosts, but the topic intrigues me deeply.

We know photos and videos can be faked.

We know that scientists can be fooled (it's rare, but it can happen).

Me personally? I would want to experience it myself. I would want verification of my event.

Perfect set up (for me): 'Haunted' location, myself. Video cameras on 100% of the time. No lights off. A team of at least four skeptics. I would want all five of us to experience the same thing at the same time. I would want said experience to repeat several times.

No EVP needed, no dramatic music. Just a well lit, repeated experience. Then, I would believe there is evidence for something we cannot explain.

What would you want, what would it take for you to consider it possible?

I don't believe it would. You have to have an open mind to 'anything is possible' which will send out good energy.

When you go into a room with a negative thoughts, you put up a big shield. It would be akin to walking into a party where you haven't been invited.

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I look at it this way - well over 100 billion people have been estimated to have lived on this planet.

Listening to "ghost hunters", psychics, and mediums, they would lead us to believe that ghosts are everywhere.

Given the sheer numbers of dead folks, if ghosts were real, we'd be swimming in the damned things and there would be zero doubt of their existence. We would see them everywhere and they'd be as much a reality as the sun rising and setting each day. We'd see them walking across the set on the evening news, in pretty much any building we go in, and certainly in places where mass tragedies occurred - think about the footprint of the World Trade Center as an example.

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I have had experiences with the paranormal and have heard many accounts but to really believe that a place is haunted I would have to stay there and experience things myself. There are to many stories circulating around and that's all they are, are stories that someone tells to get attention or to explain a strange noise that they had never heard before.

Edited by Zirna

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I have had experiences with the paranormal and have heard many accounts but to really believe that a place is haunted I would have to stay there and experience things myself. There are to many stories circulating around and that's all they are, are stories that someone tells to get attention or to explain a strange noise that they had never heard before.

Stories? So when I saw a friend of mine from 2 years previous, stand in front of me in my lounge, knowing that he took his life 5 days earlier.... you saying I made that up? it was my imagination?

When I go to spiritualist church and tell an elderly lady about a glass jewellery box with a gold rose on top that given to her on her 18th birthday, how would I make that up??

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VERIDICAL APPARITIONS

We have seen several examples of apparitions that seem to convey information not known to the percipient, which upon checking, turned out to be accurate. We classify such cases as veridical: that is, the experiences provide information that corresponds with facts. The following apparition conveyed information about an inconsequential detail that turned out to be correct. THE CASE OF A SOLDIERS'S DEATH...This and other cases all involved information that could plausibly have been known to someone who was alive at the time, and are open to an explanation in terms of telepathy among the living...However the following case is more difficult to explain in this manner. THE CHAFFIN WILL CASE...(from Science and the Afterlife Experience by Chris Carter)

The dead appeared to say the revised will could be found by looking in a jacket pocket containing information that would lead to its hidden location.

"It should be clear that what makes these cases so compelling is that they seem to be evidence of genuine communication with the deceased person in question"--Carter

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One of the strongest experiences I've had concerning the existence of spirits was my grandfather. The day before he died I took his hand and told him everything would be alright. They kept him heavily sedated due to the pain the lung cancer was causing him. He was unresponsive to everyone except me. He squeezed my hand gently after I told him that it would be ok to go. That night I was woken by someone tapping my bedside table. I saw my grandpa, he smiled and was gone. The next morning (I didn't sleep) we had a call that he died that night. Ever since then I've delved into the occult trying to figure stuff out.

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Stories? So when I saw a friend of mine from 2 years previous, stand in front of me in my lounge, knowing that he took his life 5 days earlier.... you saying I made that up? it was my imagination?

When I go to spiritualist church and tell an elderly lady about a glass jewellery box with a gold rose on top that given to her on her 18th birthday, how would I make that up??

Pretty much, yeah. Especially since you're an anonymous poster on an Internet forum.

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I look at it this way - well over 100 billion people have been estimated to have lived on this planet.

Listening to "ghost hunters", psychics, and mediums, they would lead us to believe that ghosts are everywhere.

Given the sheer numbers of dead folks, if ghosts were real, we'd be swimming in the damned things and there would be zero doubt of their existence. We would see them everywhere and they'd be as much a reality as the sun rising and setting each day. We'd see them walking across the set on the evening news, in pretty much any building we go in, and certainly in places where mass tragedies occurred - think about the footprint of the World Trade Center as an example.

:nw::nw::nw::nw::nw::nw:

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Stories? So when I saw a friend of mine from 2 years previous, stand in front of me in my lounge, knowing that he took his life 5 days earlier.... you saying I made that up? it was my imagination?

When I go to spiritualist church and tell an elderly lady about a glass jewellery box with a gold rose on top that given to her on her 18th birthday, how would I make that up??

My earlier comment wasn't meant directly towards you, what I was trying to say is that I (as well as many others) won't believe something unless we see it with our own eyes. And I to have had experiences with the paranormal so yes I am a believer when it comes to ghosts. But it doesn't matter in the end whether someone believes you or not, because only you know what you saw or experienced. And sadly enough, there are people who will make things up to get attention. Edited by Zirna

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