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markdohle

A place to stand from

13 posts in this topic

A place to stand from

I like to think that when people get together to discuss something important, like political views, religious, or philosophical concerns, there is a common thread that is present in I believe the vast majority of them; even if unconscious. I find this in atheist as well as believers and yes of course in myself. It is an assumption that what I truly believe important and true; is in fact the way things are. This is almost always emotional in its content, for we all need a place to stand from. A place we would like to believe is solid, rooted in reality and simply true. This need to find a place solid is important because I have a feeling, or an intuition, that if we actually got some kind of glimpse on how open ended existence is, we may in fact go crazy. Science is of course helping us understand better the vastness of universe, which continues to astound. There is also the study today of NDE’s and other human experiences that continue to get our attention and deepen desire of many, both scholars as well as laymen, to understand what they mean for us as well.

That is why we gather in groups with like minded people to encourage us on in our lives. The dark underside of this is how we treat those who are different, follow another path, or religion, or philosophy, which differs from ours. I have found no groups where this is not true. Stereotypes help us to deal with those who make us nervous, or think differently that we do. Straw men and women are easier to burn.

Now there are ways of looking at the world where each point of view is considered equal in value….one exception to this rule is those who don’t believe this, that all viewpoints are equal in worth, or in fact wrong, and again treated like any outsider. So even those who are totally post-modernist in their views are also just like those who in the past who did cling to the belief that there is only one way to truth. There seems no way to get around this. We all need a place to stand from.

Is there any way out of this dilemma, this tower of Babel that we have created for ourselves? I do not believe there is, for in the world there are many opposing views on the nature of reality. Contempt, ridicule and out right hatred are the most common responses to others who have opposing views.

Perhaps the most child-like attitude, the way of being that Jesus said is needed to enter the kingdom, is to embrace this reality, to understand that noting can be done about it, and to move forward with a gentle respect for others. If we do this, then we can present what we believe in a way that is not threatening, condescending, nor damning. Having a childlike sense of humor also helps.

To be childlike in the sense that Jesus spoke of it, is I believe something that is based on true maturity and a humanity that has broken away from fear of others and of ones own doubt. Other views should lead us to think and ponder what our opponents tell us. Then if we can answer, and perhaps it would be better to say we can’t, we do with respect for the humanity of the one before us.

Uncertainty and doubt, or givens in the world that we live in, though like death, this is not something we like to contemplate upon. All of our most important questions that have been asked by every generation need to be answered by each generation that follows, as well as by each individual. It seems to be an ongoing process. There are traditions that can help us, give us roots, assist us to grow as human beings, to become more loving, less fearful and anxious and also more accepting of others.

People know when they are listened to, and most often they will return the favor. Those who don’t, well, that is their cross to bear. For no matter how much contempt or shame is used to try to convince others, all they get back is resistance.

I have not met anyone who has been changed, or converted by fear, or by being treated with contempt. If I have a place to stand from, which I do, then I still need the humility to understand that I not only have something to learn from others, and from other traditions, but that on the bottom line I could be wrong about everything. Knowing this takes a load of my shoulders to be the defender of “Truth”, and simply continue to share the truth as I have been lead to believe. In understanding that, I give others the freedom to seek as well.

Ideologies are the enemy of humanities seeking after truth. They are closed and only suffocate and in the end die; they are time bound. What is true will survive the test of time, even if it seems to be dying out, it will come back. All we can do is live one day at a time and hopefully do the best we can, as well as to believe that those we meet on the way are also doing that, unless proven otherwise.

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You know, Mark, I'm not sure any more what the "truth" is external to myself. It seems that sometimes our beliefs are a way of understanding and organizing the world we live in, trying to make sense out of it, and then we insist that's the way it is. I don't know anymore about the spiritual or religious beliefs explaining with accuracy how things are. So I stopped worrying about, stopped trying to reconcile things, and now just operate on what I know to be true for myself. So I have a code of integrity, kindness, compassion, generosity, find ways to support people, try to live my life so that I am an asset to the planet. I think we can all do those things regardless or sometimes in spite of our religious reliefs. As you said, we're all doing the best we can. I know from personal experience that sometimes it doesn't appear so to others, that I've often seemed to fall short, but at the time it was the best I could do. I love your compassion, and how are so grounded in that, without any arrogance. You are a blessing.

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I think it will be an extreme example but to make it more apparent I will go with this. We think we know for sure that all people die. But actually it is only a belief unless we go and check with each people all throughout the history if they died until then there really is no absolute evidence that all people die or did die.. Actually all things in this life is belief even our own existence. i think people will let their beliefs be challenged up until to a point that they are ready to see or perceive a new outlook. if not there shall come a strong resistance. If people are forced into a new outlook through strongest of challenges there can be great disturbances. on the other hand there should always be a considerable amount of challenge so that people can test their limits to see if they are ready for a new outlook.

Edited by thyra
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I find it hard to be loving when Im face to face with the people who are out to harm and swindle me.............................. Im going through a Buyer Protection case on eggbay and its giving me a big headache. Mark please pray for us to keep our hearts open and a fast closure. The seller is a tough nut to crack....................... Childish is what I would describe this bunch. No child like there....................

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You know, Mark, I'm not sure any more what the "truth" is external to myself. It seems that sometimes our beliefs are a way of understanding and organizing the world we live in, trying to make sense out of it, and then we insist that's the way it is. I don't know anymore about the spiritual or religious beliefs explaining with accuracy how things are. So I stopped worrying about, stopped trying to reconcile things, and now just operate on what I know to be true for myself. So I have a code of integrity, kindness, compassion, generosity, find ways to support people, try to live my life so that I am an asset to the planet. I think we can all do those things regardless or sometimes in spite of our religious reliefs. As you said, we're all doing the best we can. I know from personal experience that sometimes it doesn't appear so to others, that I've often seemed to fall short, but at the time it was the best I could do. I love your compassion, and how are so grounded in that, without any arrogance. You are a blessing.

You should write a book my friend, so wise and loving....thanks for spending time to respond. I agree sometimes we do things in spite of our beliefs, at least on how they are lived in a certain time and place. To break from the tribe, as well as not to hate others from others groups is a life long struggle........well for me ;-).

peace

mark

Edited by markdohle

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I think it will be an extreme example but to make it more apparent I will go with this. We think we know for sure that all people die. But actually it is only a belief unless we go and check with each people all throughout the history if they died until then there really is no absolute evidence that all people die or did die.. Actually all things in this life is belief even our own existence. i think people will let their beliefs be challenged up until to a point that they are ready to see or perceive a new outlook. if not there shall come a strong resistance. If people are forced into a new outlook through strongest of challenges there can be great disturbances. on the other hand there should always be a considerable amount of challenge so that people can test their limits to see if they are ready for a new outlook.

We all need to be challenged, often,I believe. Fear of doubt often keeps us from moving into a deeper and wider understanding of reality.....an unending journey I believe even into eternity.

Peace

Mark

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I find it hard to be loving when Im face to face with the people who are out to harm and swindle me.............................. Im going through a Buyer Protection case on eggbay and its giving me a big headache. Mark please pray for us to keep our hearts open and a fast closure. The seller is a tough nut to crack....................... Childish is what I would describe this bunch. No child like there....................

Will pray for you my friend. So much White Collar crime today.

Peace

mark

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I agree with you.

But.

It's one thing to honor another's beliefs; but when you seek an array of answers to a question, not all answers are going to feel good to you. Being taken out of your comfort zone, and entertaining another's view is important for our own growth. Because can you truly honor another human being if you are afraid of what they tell you? Your gut reaction is going to be to defend. No one likes to have their views threatened, even if they'd never admit that they felt that in the first place. And some people feel so threatened, so put out of place by anyone who thinks differently than they do, they even have to insult and degrade, because they don't know how to not be defensive when another's idea challenges their own.

Religion or your personal belief system should be a place of comfort. Not a weapon. Not a 'thing' used to judge. I think personally all paths have their own validity. No one path is any better than another, because they all lead to the same place; death. And none of us really know what's on the other side, do we? Not for sure.

I think the bottom line is that you have to be willing to hear the good with the bad, the things that will shake your faith, and the things that will compound it. It's being open to all of those things, that's the key.

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Those gut reactions, oh boy, that's always kicked into gear by my ego. At least I'm aware of that now. When that instant gut reaction kicks in, I always stop and ask myself what that's all about, because it's always something in me that shows up in record time, and I don't care to cater to that. I prefer to think, then act. I would probably trust that gut reaction if I were in physical jeopardy, but other than that, it just shows up as someone pushing a button that I'm not always aware even existed. So it IS an opportunity for me to move into more self-awareness, at least. I get that those reactions are due more to me than anything else. Sigh, always lessons, huh?

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I agree with you.

But.

It's one thing to honor another's beliefs; but when you seek an array of answers to a question, not all answers are going to feel good to you. Being taken out of your comfort zone, and entertaining another's view is important for our own growth. Because can you truly honor another human being if you are afraid of what they tell you? Your gut reaction is going to be to defend. No one likes to have their views threatened, even if they'd never admit that they felt that in the first place. And some people feel so threatened, so put out of place by anyone who thinks differently than they do, they even have to insult and degrade, because they don't know how to not be defensive when another's idea challenges their own.

Religion or your personal belief system should be a place of comfort. Not a weapon. Not a 'thing' used to judge. I think personally all paths have their own validity. No one path is any better than another, because they all lead to the same place; death. And none of us really know what's on the other side, do we? Not for sure.

I think the bottom line is that you have to be willing to hear the good with the bad, the things that will shake your faith, and the things that will compound it. It's being open to all of those things, that's the key.

Yes, we have to listen. To react is normal, easy, but not productive for anyone I believe.

peace

mark

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Will pray for you my friend. So much White Collar crime today.

Peace

mark

Thank you Mark! I feel strengthen and protected.............................................................................
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I forgot to tell you Bro. Mark. I won the case. Thank you again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I forgot to tell you Bro. Mark. I won the case. Thank you again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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