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SpiritWriter

My pastor said the bible is false

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I have a very different type of Christian church and my pastor has been alluding to certain ways of thinking for a long time, but today he finally came out and said it. He said The Bible is not historical fact, that the stories have been plagiarized from Egypt and that if anyone believes it as historical fact they've been bamboozled. Now I have never went to a church where I believed or agreed 100% with the pastor and their teachings, I do have my own thoughts on the matter and I do not think it is as cut and dry as all that. But just reporting the shocking words that came out of his mouth today.

I think its funny. I like the fact that he challenges the norms and is bold enough to break away from tradition while still holding on to the virtues and faith of living a life with God as a central focus. I think its a good thing that he's exploring, and has been exploring for a long time the history of religions and coming to some conclusions but I think it is a pitfall in any setting to automatically run with what the teacher has announced. I have studied for myself also and have concluded that I do believe in the bible and the stories within them, at least to a certain extent. I don't really have it in me to explain my full thinking on this matter right now, but I just wanted to report what I heard in church today. Quite a shocking thing to hear really after being in church for so long.

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I think you should do your own research, even if that means questioning everything you have been told.

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I think you should do your own research, even if that means questioning everything you have been told.

I definately do that

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Indeed take nothing at face value.

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Razer.... I agree.............

. 'your Pastor says the bible is false' ?thats n oxymoron... , that well may or may not be true..

Have you, spiritwriter , researched this?

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False and misled teachers as the Bible clearly referred to.

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Certain stories in the Bible are definitely exaggerated and/or allegorical in nature. So in some respects I agree with your pastor. However, other parts of the Bible are intended to be fact, so a blanket statement saying "the Bible is false" is misleading for two reasons: 1- it suggests by implication that "nothing in the Bible is true", and 2- an exaggerated or allegorical event has no spiritual truth to be gained.

Without knowing where on the spectrum your pastor actually fits, I can't really say to what extent I agree or disagree.

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Show your Pastor this;

There is a problem using "Serapis Bishop of Christ" reference Letter due to the source which

is the Historia Augusta.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustan_History

Ever since it was first published the Historia Augusta has been known to not be particularly

reliable. However as it is also the principal Latin source regarding a century of Roman

history and so historians must use it...." but only with extreme circumspection and caution"

The Cambridge History of Classical Literature: Volume 2, Latin Literature, Part 5, The Later

Principate, E. J. Kenney, Wendell Vernon Clausen, p43, 45

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Certain stories in the Bible are definitely exaggerated and/or allegorical in nature. So in some respects I agree with your pastor. However, other parts of the Bible are intended to be fact, so a blanket statement saying "the Bible is false" is misleading for two reasons: 1- it suggests by implication that "nothing in the Bible is true", and 2- an exaggerated or allegorical event has no spiritual truth to be gained.

Without knowing where on the spectrum your pastor actually fits, I can't really say to what extent I agree or disagree.

He does use it in his sermons every week, he agrees that following its teachings leads to a fulfilling spiritual life but says that the whole thing, ALL the stories are fabricated.

I don't agree.

Edit: at least thats what I get from what he said today

Edited by SpiritWriter

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He does use it in his sermons every week, he agrees that following its teachings leads to a fulfilling spiritual life but says that the whole thing, ALL the stories are fabricated.

I don't agree.

Edit: at least thats what I get from what he said today

What does your pastor believe about Jesus - who he is, was he perfect, did he die and resurrect? Is a non-literal resurrection compatible with salvation by Grace?

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The Bible has true things in it (Egypt, for example, really existed), and things in it that, "Ain't necessarily so."

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What does your pastor believe about Jesus - who he is, was he perfect, did he die and resurrect? Is a non-literal resurrection compatible with salvation by Grace?

I believe he thinks that the story is stolen from the Egyptian Osiris, Horus, Isis myth... he does believe in a true redeemer and often talks about the name Jesus only coming into existence 400 years ago (as we know it has adapted from Yahushua). Truthfully he never talks about salvation or grace, both are concepts I understand and would address as a pastor (especially grace). He speaks more of God being a part of all of us, not something that is outside of us and needs to come into us, that a person just needs to become aware of that fact in order to begin to understand it. One of his main messages is: pray, believe that you have already received and mainly: the kingdom of god is within and god is everywhere present at the same time, meaning within everyone and everything despite labels or religious titles...

But when teaching from the words of christ he does say things like: "thats why Jesus said this or that"

Edited by SpiritWriter

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I live in Vietnam and was raised a Buddhist, and I suppose I still am, for the most part. Still, I don't "believe" any of it and think some of it is almost certainly not true. Hold to those things that you find good and helpful but not as beliefs but as opinions that may have doubts here and there around the edges. The actual historicity of many stories may be completely untrue but still we have the story anyway, maybe for some other reason.

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I think it's best to come up with your own beliefs. I love the feeling when an idea aligns with your reasoning and makes sense to you. Eventually I guess, these ideas become your belief, whether they are fact or not.

Anyways, it was pretty brave of him to say that.

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the idea of the story coming from the egyptian stories of osiris does remind me of something that bothers me. even if it is true, it's not stealing, i don't think. people did not deliberately lift the beliefs of others wholesale. all religions have been influenced by, and borrowed ideas from, the faiths of their neighbors, or their rulers, depending on the case. belief systems mix together as people mix together, and eventually something similar to the old ways, but als completely its own, emerges. but it's not theft.

maybe this just bothers me because the word theft, to me, implies deliberate and hostile intent, and i don't think that's how these things worked.

i can't really speak much for the specifics in the case of the bible, though. it's been a long time since i read any of that book.

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The way I imagine the Trinity evolving is you have this religion (early Christianity) claiming to be out of Judaism (a strict monotheism) with a figure, Jesus, who needs worshiping. How does one achieve that in a monotheistic structure?

Well, the Holy Trinity of Osiris, Isis, and Horus (Father, Mother and Son) is already extant, and suggests itself. However, early Christianity had enough misogyny in it (read some of the epistles) to prohibit Mary the place she later got (pretty much) so the baptismal formula that had already evolved from other sources was taken up. There is no "lie" involved, just the suggestion from the other religion -- a sort of, "Ah, that is the way it must be."

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the word i was trying to think of before was syncretism! it has actually been quite common place throughout the world and history, i think.

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I believe he thinks that the story is stolen from the Egyptian Osiris, Horus, Isis myth... he does believe in a true redeemer and often talks about the name Jesus only coming into existence 400 years ago (as we know it has adapted from Yahushua). Truthfully he never talks about salvation or grace, both are concepts I understand and would address as a pastor (especially grace). He speaks more of God being a part of all of us, not something that is outside of us and needs to come into us, that a person just needs to become aware of that fact in order to begin to understand it. One of his main messages is: pray, believe that you have already received and mainly: the kingdom of god is within and god is everywhere present at the same time, meaning within everyone and everything despite labels or religious titles...

But when teaching from the words of christ he does say things like: "thats why Jesus said this or that"

He actually fell for the Christ myth theory even when most modern academics do not. The irony is that while he dates how old the term Jesus is there are others dating how old the Christ myth theory is itself.

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The way I imagine the Trinity evolving is you have this religion (early Christianity) claiming to be out of Judaism (a strict monotheism) with a figure, Jesus, who needs worshiping. How does one achieve that in a monotheistic structure?

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He said The Bible is not historical fact, that the stories have been plagiarized from Egypt and that if anyone believes it as historical fact they've been bamboozled.

Osiris didn't rise from the dead -- Jesus did. Big important difference. Just a note.
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I am very sad to read this about any pastor misleading a congregation like that. Exaggerated? It means to think or tell something greater than it actually is. Why would God who created the most vast thing and go to the most minute thing such as a blade of grass have to exaggerate?

An exaggeration is a lie! God does not lie. The bible was dictated to only Jewish people descendants of Adam. That alone is a feat since He declared to Adam that bread (symbol of the word of God) would come thru him, Adam.

Then think about the diverse thinking of people. The bible written over 4000 years and they all have a common thread that leads to Christ. How could such a book exist written by different hands but does not contradict each other? Because the same person, God, was doing the dictation.

Then look at the out right prophecies written thousands of years before they came to pass. Remember the conqueror Cyrus? He not only was prophecies to be a conqueror, but he was prophecies by name----and Daniel showed it to him in their bible before Cyrus had conquered.

Look at the many foreshadows of Christ. The OT is full of them. My favorite is Abraham, the father, going to sacrifice his son on the alter. A foreshadow of God our Father sacrificing His son, Jesus, on the alter.

There may be much we don't understand in the bible and much that is misunderstood and incorrectly taught (especially Genesis 1-11) but the preservation of the bible is a miracle in itself.

You need another pastor and another church so you can get thrilled to worship the true G and Savior.

God bless us all is my prayer

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Then think about the diverse thinking of people. The bible written over 4000 years and they all have a common thread that leads to Christ. How could such a book exist written by different hands but does not contradict each other? Because the same person, God, was doing the dictation.

You must have a different Bible. Not even the traditional view puts the Torah at being written over 4000 years ago. Edited by Rlyeh
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Look at the many foreshadows of Christ. The OT is full of them. My favorite is Abraham, the father, going to sacrifice his son on the alter. A foreshadow of God our Father sacrificing His son, Jesus, on the alter.

You need another pastor and another church so you can get thrilled to worship the true G and Savior.

God bless us all is my prayer

A story that gives me cold shivers every time it comes to my mind. That a loving God would put a father through such an ordeal to "test" him is outrageous and sends entirely the wrong message about God and spirituality.
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Osiris didn't rise from the dead -- Jesus did. Big important difference. Just a note.

Are you sure? I thought somebody got chopped up and there was a big to-do about finding all the parts and putting them together and resurrecting him.
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I am very sad to read this about any pastor misleading a congregation like that. Exaggerated? It means to think or tell something greater than it actually is. Why would God who created the most vast thing and go to the most minute thing such as a blade of grass have to exaggerate?

An exaggeration is a lie! God does not lie. The bible was dictated to only Jewish people descendants of Adam. That alone is a feat since He declared to Adam that bread (symbol of the word of God) would come thru him, Adam.

Then think about the diverse thinking of people. The bible written over 4000 years and they all have a common thread that leads to Christ. How could such a book exist written by different hands but does not contradict each other? Because the same person, God, was doing the dictation.

Then look at the out right prophecies written thousands of years before they came to pass. Remember the conqueror Cyrus? He not only was prophecies to be a conqueror, but he was prophecies by name----and Daniel showed it to him in their bible before Cyrus had conquered.

Look at the many foreshadows of Christ. The OT is full of them. My favorite is Abraham, the father, going to sacrifice his son on the alter. A foreshadow of God our Father sacrificing His son, Jesus, on the alter.

There may be much we don't understand in the bible and much that is misunderstood and incorrectly taught (especially Genesis 1-11) but the preservation of the bible is a miracle in itself.

You need another pastor and another church so you can get thrilled to worship the true G and Savior.

God bless us all is my prayer

Thank you copen. I do like my church and know I am there for a reason. My church is not perfect but neither is any other that I've visited. Dispite what you think we do worship the one true God. I like the fact that my pastor is searching and reaching and stepping out of the box even if I don't agree with everything he says. I do agree with a lot of what he says and have learned a lot from him.

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