I wasn't really a true Christian

[ambelamba]

I finally realized it. I really wasn't.

Does that mean I did not believe in the existence of God himself? No. Absolutely not. It was...for the lack of better word, submission by fear. It wasn't love.

you guys will be puzzled. But bear in mind that I was raised in a culture that open expression of love and affection are taboos. Yes, it's really that bad. Abuse it norm. Hatred is norm. Suicide is common. People have been conditioned under iron fist for many decades. And I am not talking about North Korea! it's the wealthier brother of NK, South Korea.

Yes, for the price of the high level of prosperity that never existed for thousands of years before, we gave up humanity.

And eventually it came down to the individual level. Truth be told, South Korea can be a perfect breeding ground for maltheists. Although they don't realize, many Korean men talk and think like maltheists. No, they are maltheists and they don't know it.

By the year 1945, the year of liberation from Imperial Japan, the numbers of Christians were about less than a million people. In forty years, it jumped up to 15 millions at the height. Now, no one's sure how many Christians are really out there in Korea because...well, no one really knows. People just dropped out of the churches once the standard of education skyrocketed. Many people got sick of systematic corruption. Some dropped out of anti-American sentiment. And some, like me, dropped out because they were sickened by the core doctrine of Pauline Christianity.

For thousands of years, my people have witnessed how absolute power can be the force of terror. And some people realized that Abrahamic God is the archetype of absolute power without any restriction. South Korea is the only nation in East Asia that has been close to the Western democracy, followed by Taiwan. To achieve such kind of democracy, many people shed their blood. Women in student movement were raped and the law enforcement officers who did the atrocities walked, scott free.

Do you guys really expect to see the nation becoming a Christian one under this kind of history?!

[+and-then]

I struggled for years with the concept of being a "true" Christian. Then I listened to a bible teacher who explained it (in the text) so simply that I no longer had any doubt. To be a true Christian one must BELIEVE the gospel. The "good news" is simply this - The Creator took a human form (Jesus) he was executed on a Roman cross as a sacrifice for the sin of ALL mankind and he came back to life on the third day. Most of the world cannot or will not believe these words but I DO and that plus NOTHING ELSE - means I will be resurrected upon my death to continue life and to be part of the Creator's plans for infinity. Notice I said nothing about being without sin or doing x number of good works... one must BELIEVE the gospel. To be saved that is ALL. James said that faith without works is dead but he did not say one lost their salvation unless they "earned" it through good works.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I'm considering myself a Deist more and more, just don't tell my employer (who happens to be the Archdiocese )

[Likely Guy]

...James said that faith without works is dead but he did not say one lost their salvation unless they "earned" it through good works.

Just the same, James was a very wise man.

[+and-then]

Just the same, James was a very wise man.

I heartily agree. But when people try to club a Christian over the head with their (in other's opinion) "lack of fruit" in their walk with Christ it is good to remember that NO work is enough. Of course that is not to say there is no obligation of true repentance. If one never really believes and is convicted of a need to change then no conversion CAN happen.

[Frank Merton]

I'm considering myself a Deist more and more, just don't tell my employer (who happens to be the Archdiocese )

Now that's interesting. Deism is as I understand it an "Enlightenment" teaching that went out the window during the middle of the nineteenth century once the scientific world understood Darwinism and therefore there was no longer any need for a deity to design nature. It was popular among the leaders of the American Revolution, but hardly exists any more so people have forgotten and generally think they must have been Christians.

Why would you go there or do you have some other meaning?

[thyra]

Any religion or lack of it is there for the person's relationship with god. I dont find it sincere when people try to utilize them for political ends and such politics is bad politics inside or abroad because this isnt what religions are for in the fist place and such politics tend to get divisive sooner or later. There are more basic and common aspects of humanity that can unite people. People should choose whatever religion they want and should be comfortable with expressing them just like those with no religion.secular governments should do their best to provide that freedom. When something unjust is done it is done to humans not to religions so governments should be in equal distance to religions for individual's rights even if there is one person who has a different religion than others in the nation. So I guess, I dont see the question in exactly the same context. Underdeveloped conscience, crime tendency or lack of moral and lack of respect to individuals right are results of deprivation of education and growing up in an unloving and harsh environment and is not directly linked with religions or lack of it.

Edited January 23, 2014 by thyra

[Doug1029]

Now that's interesting. Deism is as I understand it an "Enlightenment" teaching that went out the window during the middle of the nineteenth century once the scientific world understood Darwinism and therefore there was no longer any need for a deity to design nature. It was popular among the leaders of the American Revolution, but hardly exists any more so people have forgotten and generally think they must have been Christians.

What about Unitarians?

Doug

[Grandpa Greenman]

What about Unitarians?

Doug

The believe all reliigons are worshiping the same thing and they are open to all beliefs. They are open to all paths Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Pagan or Atheist. They let us Pagans use their property for rituals and classes. They are cool folks and been around since the 19th century.

http://www.unitarian.org.uk/intro/index.shtml

[ambelamba]

Unitarians gained sanity by abandoning what makes religions attractive to many people. People would choose comfort through insanity.

[ellapenella]

I finally realized it. I really wasn't.

Does that mean I did not believe in the existence of God himself? No. Absolutely not. It was...for the lack of better word, submission by fear. It wasn't love.

you guys will be puzzled. But bear in mind that I was raised in a culture that open expression of love and affection are taboos. Yes, it's really that bad. Abuse it norm. Hatred is norm. Suicide is common. People have been conditioned under iron fist for many decades. And I am not talking about North Korea! it's the wealthier brother of NK, South Korea.

Yes, for the price of the high level of prosperity that never existed for thousands of years before, we gave up humanity.

And eventually it came down to the individual level. Truth be told, South Korea can be a perfect breeding ground for maltheists. Although they don't realize, many Korean men talk and think like maltheists. No, they are maltheists and they don't know it.

By the year 1945, the year of liberation from Imperial Japan, the numbers of Christians were about less than a million people. In forty years, it jumped up to 15 millions at the height. Now, no one's sure how many Christians are really out there in Korea because...well, no one really knows. People just dropped out of the churches once the standard of education skyrocketed. Many people got sick of systematic corruption. Some dropped out of anti-American sentiment. And some, like me, dropped out because they were sickened by the core doctrine of Pauline Christianity.

For thousands of years, my people have witnessed how absolute power can be the force of terror. And some people realized that Abrahamic God is the archetype of absolute power without any restriction. South Korea is the only nation in East Asia that has been close to the Western democracy, followed by Taiwan. To achieve such kind of democracy, many people shed their blood. Women in student movement were raped and the law enforcement officers who did the atrocities walked, scott free.

Do you guys really expect to see the nation becoming a Christian one under this kind of history?!

You know , to be Christ like is what Christian is . The only truth that is important to me is the acceptance of Love , the purpose and truth of Love is what Christ is.

Honestly , it's not in good favor for anyone to trash what it truly means to be Christian. I personally have a heart that is always open for Christ because I know that Love is the answer to all that is unjust in the world . And since Christ is love I desire Christ as the way of truth.

If you desire love you desire a deeper understanding of your very own self and the nature of love , what is love ? What is it ?

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others It is not self seeking , it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs

Love does not delight in evil but It rejoices with the truth.It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

^ that for me is a reflection of us mirroring God , It is what it means to be Christlike which is what a Christian is suppose to mean Christian is a name i respect, because I understand what it means.

Politically understanding human nature , the bible reveals two kinds of people in the world, those who are of a Christ conscience and those who are not.

[ambelamba]

Reann, I think you simply can't and won't accept the notion that Christ as we know was nothing but a construct and instrument for political manipulation.

[ambelamba]

And I forgot to tell you guys this.

My Christian faith was practically the submission to the immense power and authority, nothing more.

[Davros of Skaro]

And I forgot to tell you guys this.

My Christian faith was practically the submission to the immense power and authority, nothing more.

1 Corinthians 4:1-5

New International Version (NIV)

The Nature of True Apostleship

4 This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed. ² Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. ³ I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. ⁴ My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. ⁵ Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.

[Mr Walker]

I finally realized it. I really wasn't.

Does that mean I did not believe in the existence of God himself? No. Absolutely not. It was...for the lack of better word, submission by fear. It wasn't love.

you guys will be puzzled. But bear in mind that I was raised in a culture that open expression of love and affection are taboos. Yes, it's really that bad. Abuse it norm. Hatred is norm. Suicide is common. People have been conditioned under iron fist for many decades. And I am not talking about North Korea! it's the wealthier brother of NK, South Korea.

Yes, for the price of the high level of prosperity that never existed for thousands of years before, we gave up humanity.

And eventually it came down to the individual level. Truth be told, South Korea can be a perfect breeding ground for maltheists. Although they don't realize, many Korean men talk and think like maltheists. No, they are maltheists and they don't know it.

By the year 1945, the year of liberation from Imperial Japan, the numbers of Christians were about less than a million people. In forty years, it jumped up to 15 millions at the height. Now, no one's sure how many Christians are really out there in Korea because...well, no one really knows. People just dropped out of the churches once the standard of education skyrocketed. Many people got sick of systematic corruption. Some dropped out of anti-American sentiment. And some, like me, dropped out because they were sickened by the core doctrine of Pauline Christianity.

For thousands of years, my people have witnessed how absolute power can be the force of terror. And some people realized that Abrahamic God is the archetype of absolute power without any restriction. South Korea is the only nation in East Asia that has been close to the Western democracy, followed by Taiwan. To achieve such kind of democracy, many people shed their blood. Women in student movement were raped and the law enforcement officers who did the atrocities walked, scott free.

Do you guys really expect to see the nation becoming a Christian one under this kind of history?!

I found this a fascinating read

https://www.asian-studies.org/eaa/Clark-Korea.pdf

[Mr Walker]

Reann, I think you simply can't and won't accept the notion that Christ as we know was nothing but a construct and instrument for political manipulation.

Why should Reann accept your belief about the nature of Christ? You have constructed this belief based on your own personal views which are clearly negative. (maybe for good reason)

Neither history nor reality can, however, be made to fit what a person would like it to be It is what it is The nature and role of christianity in korea is explained by historical and cultural realities. How you fit into /connect with, and even how and why you deny the positive aspect of religion/Christianity, is a result of your personal experiences.

Millions of Koreans have obviously found Christianity to offer them a positive experience otherwise lacking in their lives. I think you see Christ and religion as a "construct and instrument for political manipulation" because you are driven to do so by other factors in your life. Others do not share your perception ,or your view of reality because they do not find it to fit their own experiences, or because it lacks logic to them, or because it is not representative of historical truths as they know and understand them.

. People CHOOSE religious belief for many reasons It cannot be imposed upon a person, as you have just illustrated..

[GoldenWolf]

Why should Reann accept your belief about the nature of Christ? You have constructed this belief based on your own personal views which are clearly negative. (maybe for good reason)

Neither history nor reality can, however, be made to fit what a person would like it to be It is what it is The nature and role of christianity in korea is explained by historical and cultural realities. How you fit into /connect with, and even how and why you deny the positive aspect of religion/Christianity, is a result of your personal experiences.

Millions of Koreans have obviously found Christianity to offer them a positive experience otherwise lacking in their lives. I think you see Christ and religion as a "construct and instrument for political manipulation" because you are driven to do so by other factors in your life. Others do not share your perception ,or your view of reality because they do not find it to fit their own experiences, or because it lacks logic to them, or because it is not representative of historical truths as they know and understand them.

. People CHOOSE religious belief for many reasons It cannot be imposed upon a person, as you have just illustrated..

I share his perception and view of reality for the most part, because I have been witnessing it my whole life. Plenty of people have tried imposing on me, especially by trying to use fear and pain. People like that don't have honor and are completely unrespectable.

[Mr Walker]

And I forgot to tell you guys this.

My Christian faith was practically the submission to the immense power and authority, nothing more.

We all submit to some great power and authority. In my case it is my wife.

Seriously There is nothing wrong with conscious and chosen submission to a kind and loving authority, based on love. What makes any individual including you, so all knowing, powerful and independent that they do not need to submit to any other authority than their own? That is an attitude I encounter in children and adolescents all the time, but hopefully most adults grow wiser.

[Mr Walker]

I share his perception and view of reality for the most part, because I have been witnessing it my whole life. Plenty of people have tried imposing on me, especially by trying to use fear and pain. People like that don't have honor and are completely unrespectable.

As I said, it is based on his perception of what he has been seeing, and that perception is created by wider attitudes and beliefs which form a part of his world view.

I would ask him (and you) Have you spoken to others about why they behave as they do?

i would ask ambelamba .

Does korea have a tradition of hierarchical authority, and submission to authority figures, outside of religious practice? eg are children more submissive to their parent's authority than elsewhere, and are adults more law abiding and respectful of civil authority than in many places? In other words is part of what you see as korean's submissive attitude to religious authority a reflection of a wider attitude to all authority? Korea has the highest number of Christian missionaries around the world after the usa How and why did that ever happen? What is driving those Korean missionaries?.

[ambelamba]

Well, obeying the order without questioning is still a virtue in Korea. It never sat well with me, though.

[+joc]

There is no TRUE Christianity. If there is, it is simply following the teachings of Jesus. The entire belief system is a lie from the beginning. Not Jesus...but virgins having babies and dead people coming back to life.

[ambelamba]

There is no TRUE Christianity. If there is, it is simply following the teachings of Jesus. The entire belief system is a lie from the beginning. Not Jesus...but virgins having babies and dead people coming back to life.

I believe that the true followers of Jesus just died off within the first 100 years after his snuffing. Not by persecution or anything like that, they just lost popularity.

[Frank Merton]

There is no TRUE Christianity. If there is, it is simply following the teachings of Jesus. The entire belief system is a lie from the beginning. Not Jesus...but virgins having babies and dead people coming back to life.

Maybe there is a "true" Christianity that dismisses all the dogma and judgments in favor of tolerance and compassion and self-understanding.

[Frank Merton]

Well, obeying the order without questioning is still a virtue in Korea. It never sat well with me, though.

I have to say I very much admire the Koreans of the South for achieving what they have achieved under the circumstances. I hope Vietnam follows a similar path.

[ambelamba]

I have to say I very much admire the Koreans of the South for achieving what they have achieved under the circumstances. I hope Vietnam follows a similar path.

Trust me, if Vietnam goes the same path, they will have to trade their happiness for the life of agonizing stress just to keep afloat.