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taniwha

Creation of the universe and other stories

131 posts in this topic

Hello UM

What existed before the big bang? It fits with logic that time is the obvious answer. I will call this time pre existance. I also think science supports this logic. You dont have to believe in the big bang theory but i would point out in this model the big bang is very possible within an eternal universe

So go ahead, feel welcome to solve the riddles of creation the universe and everything in between. Practice some free thinking and post

thank you.

Edited by taniwha

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For all we know our Universe is a product from a spiil over from a much older Universe, or Universes.

Such things to ponder while one part of the world throws away tons of food a year, while people starve in another.

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For all we know our Universe is a product from a spiil over from a much older Universe, or Universes.

Such things to ponder while one part of the world throws away tons of food a year, while people starve in another.

I share your sentiments. I do believe science has much more contribution to make towards solving mankinds woes.

Philosophy and debate may also be a way to open mans eyes. That is why I promote free thinking in this topic.

Edited by taniwha
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How to put pre existence into perspective? It was a time before time as we know it. The BB was a form of stimulation, friction of opposing force, comparable to a stormfront releasing energy as thunder and lightening. Natural laws are obvious everywhere in the universe.

Edited by taniwha

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I share your sentiments. I do believe science has much more contribution to make towards solving mankinds woes.

Philosophy and debate may also be a way to open mans eyes. That is why I promote free thinking in this topic.

There will be a time when the whole Universe will go lights out.Untill then we are all in this together, and the sooner we wale up to this as a whole the better.

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I think time started when space started at the BB. Time and space are not two separate things but one thing called space-time. Time is just another dimension of space-time just like the other three spatial dimensions. Space would not exist if it didn't exist for some amount of time. And the concept of time in a void with no space and nothing moving or changing is completely meaningless. There may be other universes than this one with their own space-times but to say they came before this one or after it is, I think meaningless, unless their is something like what Hawking called imaginary time which can be thought of as traveling at right angles to the direction our real time flows. I think ultimately though there must at some point have been a first universe whether it was this one or another.

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I think time started when space started at the BB. Time and space are not two separate things but one thing called space-time. Time is just another dimension of space-time just like the other three spatial dimensions. Space would not exist if it didn't exist for some amount of time. And the concept of time in a void with no space and nothing moving or changing is completely meaningless. There may be other universes than this one with their own space-times but to say they came before this one or after it is, I think meaningless, unless their is something like what Hawking called imaginary time which can be thought of as traveling at right angles to the direction our real time flows. I think ultimately though there must at some point have been a first universe whether it was this one or another.

I think time can exist unbounded and infact does.

What does the universe expand into if it isnt time itself? All that is required to travel time is momentum.

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I think time can exist unbounded and infact does.

What does the universe expand into if it isnt time itself? All that is required to travel time is momentum.

Who says the universe expands into anything? It may well be infinite in size, though I have some problems with that idea as well but even if infinite, infinity can always get bigger. And even if not infinite but finite and boundless as I think it can get bigger without expanding into anything it is just making more space, or more precisely making existing space bigger. Einstein showed that Newton's idea of an absolute time independent of space was wrong. One can't be without the other. At least, that's the way I see it. Before there was a universe(which is actually a meaningless statement, like just north of the north pole) what was there to have momentum to travel time? Without space the concept of time has no meaning

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Who says the universe expands into anything? It may well be infinite in size, though I have some problems with that idea as well but even if infinite, infinity can always get bigger. And even if not infinite but finite and boundless as I think it can get bigger without expanding into anything it is just making more space, or more precisely making existing space bigger. Einstein showed that Newton's idea of an absolute time independent of space was wrong. One can't be without the other. At least, that's the way I see it. Before there was a universe(which is actually a meaningless statement, like just north of the north pole) what was there to have momentum to travel time? Without space the concept of time has no meaning

What if we exist within another universe; the theory that nothing exists outside our own is just a theory.

There was another theory that the universe has continually expanded and contracted in a cycle....which if true means we really have no idea how long it's been here.

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2010/03/there-was-no-big-bang-universe-endlessly-expands-contracts.html

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I thought of a life like model which is easy to grasp. Time is already infinite! Is this the idea Einstein debunked? It is easy for to picture the universe as a receptacle for expansion and still adhere to natural laws if time can only be measured during expansion.

What if expansion stops? It might mean that the end of time has been reached.

If there is no end to the universe there is no end to time.

Edited by taniwha

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Is not time a man made construct?The decay of isotopes, and the passage of the Stars do not need us around.

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What if we exist within another universe; the theory that nothing exists outside our own is just a theory.

There was another theory that the universe has continually expanded and contracted in a cycle....which if true means we really have no idea how long it's been here.

http://www.dailygala...-contracts.html

All very true though the 2nd law of thermodynamics would seem to suggest this can't have been going on forever, though no one really knows if the law applies in this matter. And you are right about it all being theory or even pure speculation. I have no certainty here and I'm not claiming any just saying what makes sense to me.
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I thought of a life like model which is easy to grasp. Time is already infinite! Is this the idea Einstein debunked? It is easy for to picture the universe as a receptacle for expansion and still adhere to natural laws if time can only be measured during expansion.

What if expansion stops? It might mean that the end of time has been reached.

Einstein claimed time was "a stubbornly persistent illusion" But you could be right. But I just can't see time existing on it's own. It is just a property of space-time. What meaning does it has other than to measure the duration of something? Space and time are parts of the same thing.
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Is not time a man made construct?The decay of isotopes, and the passage of the Stars do not need us around.

I don't know but I think the stars and isotopes must exist for a certain amount of time or they don't exist at all
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What if we exist within another universe; the theory that nothing exists outside our own is just a theory.

There was another theory that the universe has continually expanded and contracted in a cycle....which if true means we really have no idea how long it's been here.

http://www.dailygala...-contracts.html

Its an interesting question of a universal cycle and It is also supported by natural laws.

It could also be that the BB will eventually run out of energy and dissipate into decay.

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Einstein claimed time was "a stubbornly persistent illusion" But you could be right. But I just can't see time existing on it's own. It is just a property of space-time. What meaning does it has other than to measure the duration of something? Space and time are parts of the same thing.

Ha ha I admire Einstieins philosophy.

I see the universe as a seperate entity to , but containing all of the ingredients of, the Big bang. Was this bang the result of all known matter? is unclear.

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Its an interesting question of a universal cycle and It is also supported by natural laws.

It could also be that the BB will eventually run out of energy and dissipate into decay.

There is also an idea that sometime a new BB could happen and start a new universe destroying this one. I think that one would have it's own space-time completely independent of this one

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There is also an idea that sometime a new BB could happen and start a new universe destroying this one. I think that one would have it's own space-time completely independent of this one

Yes I agree that another BB and many more are possible in fact highly probable. I will say 'our time' to describe the BB onwards so it doesnt confuse with 'the universe' which I contend we are but a droplet inside of. Basically I imagine our time as an ever increasing donut or sphere shape expanding rapidly from its point of inception. Basically this inception point is unobservable due to the bounds of physics within our time. Further more pre existence was very lively before our time. That is the universe was not dormant prior to the BB. It just was and still is.

Edited by taniwha

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One way to look at it is that you don't have time unless you have clocks, and you don't have space unless you have motion. Both, in other words, only exist if there are things to change, and when you have change you automatically have both space and time.

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Back at the beginning of the twentieth century, it began to dawn on astronomers that some of the "nebulae" they observed might be like the Milky Way, their own "island universes" outside the Milky Way, instead of objects in it (so that the Milky Way would not be the entire universe).

This created a nomenclature problem, since "universe" is supposed to mean "everything." If there are all these "universes" out there, including our own, the terminology is at best confusing. Hence came into use the word "galaxy" and the various "island universes" became instead other galaxies. (This was not finally confirmed for another twenty years, but by then most astronomers saw things that way).

We have a similar problem now. We have the "cosmos" or system of galaxies that originated in our Big Bang, but we don't know whether other Big Bangs have happened, or, even worse, whether or not other systems of dimensions exist other than ours. So now we have "multiple universe" hypotheses -- back to the old terminology confusion.

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I've always wondered how it was before ole big bang decided to happen.

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Anyway space is flat in three dimensions which science has proved. Extreme compression is needed to cause enough friction to generate a spark or explosion. That is a mechanical explanation of what we observe.

or Opposing forces colliding together with Infinite gravity and speed. Incredible!. The universe is still expanding faster everyday , it makes me wonder if the BB cycle is still on the down stroke or the upstroke. Are we headed towards infinite decompression? If it is a natural cycle the answer is yes. We are.

But who knows for sure? Nothing in this model is absolute but it could provide a clue to dark energy , is it a by- product of combustion or the cause, or is it the fuel source itsself?

As quickly as Light energy is exhausted the cycle has reached its peak and another creation can commence.

Edited by taniwha

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.

I've always wondered how it was before ole big bang decided to happen.

Yes it is a very normal and fascinating question. So what do you think? I think of ideas as a machine that can be test driven and enjoyed. New models may always outdate the old ones but you cant beat the classics :tu:

Edited by taniwha

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One way to look at it is that you don't have time unless you have clocks, and you don't have space unless you have motion. Both, in other words, only exist if there are things to change, and when you have change you automatically have both space and time.

Yes thanks a good point you make

Did space/ time exist before the big bang? Not as we observe it anyway. To avoid confusion I' ll say an 'age' existed.

Edited by taniwha

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Metaphysically I think it is possible that nature mimics the universe on every level. Nature can provide all the clues necessary if we have any questions we wish to ask or even answer about the universe. Nothing that is revealed about the universe is unknown in nature. What do you think ???

thanks to all posts. Peace.

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