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The new agnostics

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Edward Crabtree: 'Operationally, God is beginning to resemble not a ruler, but the last fading smile of a cosmic Cheshire cat' Sir Julian Huxley. It was the holiday season that brought you into the church this evening. Around you the candles and the gold decorations and the polished flagstones impart a sense of solemnity. Yet none of this trussed up folklore is for you .The hour is getting late. You light one of the candles out of respect and soon you are out of the church, ready for the comfort of home. The night air bites and it is dark. Up above, however, you behold the beauty and mystery of the firmament. You take this in for a while before returning home....

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Believers/atheists have a similar mindset:

They claim to know with certainty that what they believe is right.

How can you speak with certainty about God?

(Isn't that like saying....I see quite clearly, the invisible, unseeable man? edit: Or the lack thereof)

I think that's why you are seeing a slow shift to agnostic thinking.

Isn't the truth usually somewhere in the middle of 2 extremes?

Edited by Awake2Chaos
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GOd has no problems ... it is religion that is problematic ... and causes the problems ... and God isn't 'invisible' ... God is just not visible in the way we visualise things ...

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Whatever higher power "God" is, I think it must be something beyond what any of us can even imagine. Not sure I would recognize that higher power if we met on the street, would you?

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I don't know any atheists who are certain that no God exists. Even Richard Dawkins has explicitly stated he is not certain. This article is fine as an opinion piece but there are so many strawmen concerning 'atheists' and 'agnostics' that it garners a hearty 'meh' from me.

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Whatever higher power "God" is, I think it must be something beyond what any of us can even imagine. Not sure I would recognize that higher power if we met on the street, would you?

I think the western religious mindset is unable to understand that 'higher power', but the eastern mindset is much more spiritual, IMO. Having read several of Alan Watts' books many years ago, especially his "Book on The Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are", I think the eastern mindset is far more spiritual and understanding than the western.

I'm not sure "higher power" is really the most accurate term, but I get the point. I think we are all god.

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I don't know how many times I've said this, but I plainly need to repeat myself. Atheists do not claim any sort of certainty. I feel as sure as it is possible for me to feel that there is no God of the Abrahamic sort (an anthropomorphic personality that operates in history), but that is far short of certainty and admits to the possibility of all sorts of other things that some might call gods.

I just describe myself as atheist because I think that is the most honest word for how I feel. I have so little doubt about the God of the Western world being a myth (and an unfortunate one at that) that I don't want to mislead people into thinking otherwise.

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From I understood, an atheist is not a non believer in god, they are not believers in YOUR god.

An agnostic is someone who does not believe in gods..end off

and an ignostic is someone who is not sure what to believe, will not say they believe but are open to ideas.

But the meanings change just as beliefs do.

Man has been changing his beliefs for centuries, the Romans and Greek had wonderful ideas about gods, but they threw them out the window for one god...will never understand that and would never trust a religion which takes you away from your original beliefs.

There were many other beliefs well before Christianity or islam etc etc etc, but then came mass murder!

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As long as mankind has some semblance of free will, neither atheist or believer will be able to convert the other. No evidence, scientific or otherwise, can dissuade the true atheist or believer to change his mind since the mind can always find a rationale for rejecting evidence. It might be interesting to conduct a scientific experiment to get some idea of how long a perfectly atheistic society would last. For example, take two groups, one of atheists, the other of believers, into a remote jungle and give them only primitive tools to survive - with the requirement that interaction between the two groups is forbidden. Which group would thrive and out survive the other? All opinions are welcome.

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Alternatively, we take three groups - atheists, agnostics, and believers, and isolate them with the latest technology, except they are forbidden to communicate with anyone outside their own group. How well would they get along and survive if they only had their own kind to relate to? Comments anyone?

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To make it more interesting, let's presume a global nuclear war has occurred, destroying civilization and rendering the surviving remnants unable to contact each other in normal ways. No electricity, gasoline or

food from the grocery stores remain. All that is left is the will to live for the survivors, including the ideologically pure groups, probably due to underground hideaways.

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Alternatively, we take three groups - atheists, agnostics, and believers, and isolate them with the latest technology, except they are forbidden to communicate with anyone outside their own group. How well would they get along and survive if they only had their own kind to relate to? Comments anyone?

You realise many atheists are also agnostic?

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Atheists and believers convert each other all the time and within each group there is such a wide variety of flavors almost any generalization is bound to have exceptions.

Edited by Frank Merton

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Those who don't wish to be converted will never be converted. Even torture won't convert everyone, as demonstrated by the Inquisition. No one says that atheists or agnostics would not be willing to die for what they

believe or don't believe in, if they were forced to. They aren't cowards, or should we think they are? As such, it seems to come down to what kinds of beliefs are most viable for human survival - it may be that a particular recipe of atheism, agnosticism, and believer is the best.

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Yeaaah! I w0nder if there are trials and t0rturing of n0n-believers? LoL....

..

..

Hmm what u call a belief that you y0urself is a g0d? Just asking :P

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Posted (edited)

You realise many atheists are also agnostic?

i thought the words had different meanings?

atheist |ˈāTHēˌist|noun a person who does not believe in the existence of God or gods: he is a committed atheist.

agnostic |agˈnästik|noun a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

Edited by lightly
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