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How do we recognize an alien intelligence ?

210 posts in this topic

What is it hiding from?

From scientific ignorance!

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From scientific ignorance!

I was thinking space zombies

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That´s an excellent example!

I had M31 as screensaver and asked a workmate how he whould think large that object is in diameter. He

looked at it, scratched his chin : "Uhh, I think it´s large isn`t ? Mhhmm, I think, no wait. Mhhmm, I would say

it`s at least 100km in diameter".

*facepalm*

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If an extraterrestrial intelligence is so divergent from us in Form, Function, and thinking then I suspect that no interraction with it would be possible. Come to that how would you be able to recognise intelligence in this context?

Several of the men present at the Roswell site who actually came very close physically to the craft occupants reported a sort of mental telepathy phenomenon, as though the creature was communicating with them without speaking.

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Mathematics is the universal language. If they understand math they are intelligent

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I don't think that I would like to be an Alien coming here, too much war, and if humans can't agree with each other how would they agree ,or be friendly with an E.T.

Or maybe they have been and gone , around 2000 yrs ago.

actually that make us interesting....

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When discovering any life form it's best to first poke it with a stick. If it tells you to stop it may be intelligent, in which case you should poke it harder, just to make sure.

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actually that make us interesting....

yes, imagine how boring it must be living in a perpetual state of blissful harmony.

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If you consider the MILLIONS of species on this planet and the observe their astonishing diversity, and consider that this is just one planet, you will realize that an alien life-form could be like ANYTHING. If you propose that an alien life-form on a nearby exo-planet HAS TO be vastly different from ANY life on Earth, how different would you say a life-form on the other side of the galaxy would have to be? The neighbouring galaxy? A galaxy in another local group? Another supergroup? And suppose there are billions, or only "just" millions, or say just thousands of planets in the entire Universe? Just how diverse do you expect life can be? And if you find something exotic beyond your wildest imagination, you have to consider: How would you define "life" in a UNIVERSAL sense. Not life on Earth.

And as for how you would recognize an alien life-form TO Earth, I think what you're looking for is something unique. Knowing how evolution works, if an evolutionary line is not viable, a mutation being a disadvantage rather than an advantage, the longer it's around the more probable it'll be pushed off the scene by more successful, more adaptive species. If a trait is an advantage it'll be the basis for all future branches of further development from the species. So what you want is a trait that is unique to ONE species. Something like psilocybin. As ethnobotanist Terence McKenna explains:

"Psilocybin is O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine. What this means is that there is a phosphorous group substituted at the 4 position (you know, where the carbon should be) of the molecule. Now here's the headline folks: This is the ONLY 4-phosphorylated indole on this planet. On this planet! This is not how nature works folks!"

So he proposes, rightly in my opinion, that psilocybin is a good candidate, although he goes on to theorize as to its origin and purpose, which is roughly outlined here:

http://karmajello.co...bes-aliens.html

There is a logic to it I must admit, I mean you can't expect one species to monitor the entire universe.

Millions? I thought across all time it was like 50 billion body shapes. Much more than that.

The links specifically targets intelligent life though.

Most people think of an intelligent extraterrestrial as primarily human-like, a bipedal entity with two arms, two legs and a face not dissimilar to our own. The reality however is that our limited knowledge of how life can develop elsewhere in the universe may be blinding us to possible forms of intelligent life that are completely unlike anything we've ever seen before.

Yet from 50 billion, how many managed an Industrial Revolution?

One.

And then look at shapes that exist today. Convergent evolution has shown that successful shapes are utilised, take the Tassie Tiger, a Marsupial related to the Kangaroo, looks just like a Dog. Or the famous Marsupial Lion, if a body shape is useful, it will be utilised. Why would this process be restricted to this planet alone?

Edited by psyche101
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Actually, it's the dolphins who are too intelligent to communicate with us.

They know that if they wave their flippers they get fed, humans are to dolphins like McDonalds is to us, fast food.

But it's the mice who run the place.

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Several of the men present at the Roswell site who actually came very close physically to the craft occupants reported a sort of mental telepathy phenomenon, as though the creature was communicating with them without speaking.

But that whole story beggars belief. Only noobs and the most credulous give it any credibility.

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Mathematics is the universal language. If they understand math they are intelligent

I just am of extreme uncertainty about that. Some mathematical things seem built into nature, like maybe numbers and certain ratios, but to a large extent we wedge math into our problems (like the Drake equation). Whether, or to what extent, we discovered or invented maths seems hard to say. I can't imagine an advanced society functioning without counting or without pi, but that I can't imagine something is weak evidence.

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yes, imagine how boring it must be living in a perpetual state of blissful harmony.

Haven't tried it so can't be sure.

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I just am of extreme uncertainty about that. Some mathematical things seem built into nature, like maybe numbers and certain ratios, but to a large extent we wedge math into our problems (like the Drake equation). Whether, or to what extent, we discovered or invented maths seems hard to say. I can't imagine an advanced society functioning without counting or without pi, but that I can't imagine something is weak evidence.

I think he means basics, like 1 = 1 = 2?

Look at one star, hold one finger up - that sort of thing? It would be the start of communication?

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I think he means basics, like 1 = 1 = 2?

Look at one star, hold one finger up - that sort of thing? It would be the start of communication?

Yes of course that's what I said.

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I think he means basics, like 1 = 1 = 2?

Look at one star, hold one finger up - that sort of thing? It would be the start of communication?

Do you mean 1 + 1? Otherwise we might really confuse the ETs if try to persuade them that 1 = 2.

?

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We have no idea what holding up a finger might mean, or making marks on paper, or making clicks on a machine.

Deeper than that, while I can't imagine a society that doesn't count, I don't know that we can assume just because we can't imagine something makes it out of the question.

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Dogs and other animals bare their teeth when they aren't happy and ready to attack

Humans show their teeth when are being friendly.

So if an Alien meets a man and a dog, the dog bares its teeth but so does the man.

How does the Alien know which one is the intelligent species so the Alien also bares its teeth

And then it all kicks off.

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If we assume a materialistic universe, and that seems to be the case, then the only real clue we need to look for to discern an "intelligent" aliens species, is the presence of technology. I am presuming the article in the OP uses the word "intelligent" to mean "technologically intelligent" - i.e. as we are, and maybe moreso. Of course, some very advanced technologies may be difficult to recognise as technology.

We don't really need to worry about what form the species takes, or it's behaviour outside of whether it is capable of manipulating it's environment via technology.

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I just am of extreme uncertainty about that. Some mathematical things seem built into nature, like maybe numbers and certain ratios, but to a large extent we wedge math into our problems (like the Drake equation). Whether, or to what extent, we discovered or invented maths seems hard to say. I can't imagine an advanced society functioning without counting or without pi, but that I can't imagine something is weak evidence.

Yeah, you make a good point, but I can't imagine it either so perhaps that weak evidence just doubled. Whether we discover or invent math is an interesting debate. I think we discover universal principles and invent the mechanics of using them

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Do you mean 1 + 1? Otherwise we might really confuse the ETs if try to persuade them that 1 = 2.

?

LOL, yes, Good Pickup! You had me confused for a minute there too, it seems I forgot to holds down the shift button. :tu:

Cheers.

We have no idea what holding up a finger might mean, or making marks on paper, or making clicks on a machine.

Deeper than that, while I can't imagine a society that doesn't count, I don't know that we can assume just because we can't imagine something makes it out of the question.

Well if you hold up one finger and point to one star, then hold up two fingers and point to two stars, surely an intelligent species is going to catch on, if a species is capable of crossing the galaxy in a spaceship that can traverse the amazing distances of space, I have absolutely no doubt they they are aware enough to realise that different cultures exist and they have different mannerisms. We understand that, it seems belittling to think that a space faring species would still be rooted in cultural superstition, and not understand enough science to figure out basic math.

I cannot see a species that advanced being offended at us saying the wrong thing about one of the deities. I honestly think they would be beyond that, just to build a spaceship. The likes of interstellar creationists would wait for God to give them the plans to one like Noah, so that ain't going to be a common space faring problem.

And from there you would hold one rock up and say "rock", and that would indicate a verbal form of communication, if the visiting species relies on the same form, and if from an air breathing planet that seems fairly likely, and if not, an atmosphere like ours would produce sound so they must be aware of such a concept if wanting to visit such an environment - we know the wind speeds of the storms on Jupiter, so it does not strike me as a huge leap there. If intelligent, it seems quite logical to put the pieces together, and initiate communications.

I just do not see intelligence going hand in hand with superstition and cultural mannerisms. Evolution would demand shedding of such medieval values by the time a species attains the ability for deep space travel. To consider otherwise would make us the superior species here, and technology dictates that is not the case in this hypothetical scenario.

Edited by psyche101
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Dogs and other animals bare their teeth when they aren't happy and ready to attack

Humans show their teeth when are being friendly.

So if an Alien meets a man and a dog, the dog bares its teeth but so does the man.

How does the Alien know which one is the intelligent species so the Alien also bares its teeth

And then it all kicks off.

The one with the Plasma Telly is going to be the advanced species.

And Cold Beer.

No way you could build a spaceship without figuring that much out by oneself.

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psyche101 has hit the Head right on the Nail ! E.T`s Will by most odds will of had developed Star Travel, which in its self,out paces even our wildest dreams so far ! We think its possible,But If they Have done it and no telling how long ago,Maybe ,Just Maybe They have found that Space is Really ,REALLY BIG, mind boggling BIG , to quote a Great Earthling "Douglas Adams" and on top of that They might not even need to contact us. They might just list us as ,"Mostly Harmless"

Just in case they are Hungry and stop off for a Human treat or two I hope were to there dis taste ! :tu:

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psyche101 has hit the Head right on the Nail ! E.T`s Will by most odds will of had developed Star Travel, which in its self,out paces even our wildest dreams so far ! We think its possible,But If they Have done it and no telling how long ago,Maybe ,Just Maybe They have found that Space is Really ,REALLY BIG, mind boggling BIG , to quote a Great Earthling "Douglas Adams" and on top of that They might not even need to contact us. They might just list us as ,"Mostly Harmless"

Just in case they are Hungry and stop off for a Human treat or two I hope were to there dis taste ! :tu:

well just start the grill and give em somethin far tastier im sure a thick cut steak and a cold heineken will settle them down after a 400 billion light year travel.... or they'll just reeeaaaallly enjoy the sounds of humans screaming in pain... ill just stand behind you ok?

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Go study LA......

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