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danielost

can the USA be saved

103 posts in this topic

I was going to make this a poll but can't.

So let's just talk about ways to save the country instead.

I think if the country fails so will the world. We are China's and Europe's biggest customer. If we fail they fail if they fail so does the world.

According to the republicans if we degrees our spending increase by one percent we would be in the black in five years.

According to the democrats the federal government cannot run out of money.

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I was going to make this a poll but can't.

So let's just talk about ways to save the country instead.

I think if the country fails so will the world. We are China's and Europe's biggest customer. If we fail they fail if they fail so does the world.

According to the republicans if we degrees our spending increase by one percent we would be in the black in five years.

According to the democrats the federal government cannot run out of money.

Balanced Budget amendment and term limits. Both require amending the constitution but so be it.

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The entire planet just needs a meteor strike as soon as possible.

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from whom?

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Start over :D We just need a mulligan!!!

Edited by bacca
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The entire planet just needs a meteor strike as soon as possible.

Hell Yes....Or a plague.

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I was going to make this a poll but can't.

So let's just talk about ways to save the country instead.

I think if the country fails so will the world. We are China's and Europe's biggest customer. If we fail they fail if they fail so does the world.

According to the republicans if we degrees our spending increase by one percent we would be in the black in five years.

According to the democrats the federal government cannot run out of money.

Well Daniel, this might strike you as a shock, but Europe's biggest customer is Europe:

la_Globaler_Handel.jpg

over 73% of what is produced in the EU is consumed in the EU, of the 27% that is not the USA takes less than 1/3. So if The USA would collapse tomorrow economically there would be no real problem in Europe...maybe one for the Chinese, but certainly not in Europe. Since the banking collapse they have been working very hard to cut all dependencies from the US... except Britain, that is, they still export over 1/3 of all their goods to the US...but if the EU can feed Spain, Greece and Portugal they can feed Britain too.

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If we get impatient enough there is always the old tried and true method - war.

ETA: If China fails then the EU loses nearly 50% of its export income by your chart.

Edited by and then

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You'll be screwed as long as you have selective economical freedom and the worshipping attitute towards your government.

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If we get impatient enough there is always the old tried and true method - war.

ETA: If China fails then the EU loses nearly 50% of its export income by your chart.

The point of that chart is that, to the contrary of most other economic blocks, consuming over 70% of their own goods, the EU would not fail even if the whole world quit importing, so if China fails...well there goes the pork barrel.

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The US is well on its way to failing. The 'too big to fail' mentality is extremely misguided.

For the most part, I blame our Govt for their over regulation of business(es) and esp. GWB for giving away our share of the manufacturing sector to China, etc. Also, starting w/ Regan, our Govt has allowed the mass influx of cheap labor into the US @ the Am. workers expense. (And neglecting to enforce existing Immigration Laws...a "Nation of laws" that doesn't enforce (all) its laws, absurd, IMO.) :cry:

The US Govt, and businesses wanted a global economy, and now we have it. It's said that a Mexican worker makes $3.00 (US) per day, (in Mex) and a Chinese worker makes $1.00 (US) per day, (in China). Not good by any country's standard...but it's impossible to live on these wages here in the US without receiving entitlements, etc.

The US' economic downturn has had global effects, but China, Europe, etc. will survive America's downfall, and eventually prosper as they will have one less major competitor in the marketplace.

Now our Govt. is telling its citizens to go out and 'pursue your passion'. (At the working taxpayers expense.) :rolleyes:

I'll never forget my Dad telling me, "GET A JOB and work hard, so you can have the money to pursue your dreams/passions...and IF you are very lucky, you can find a job that pays you to pursue your passions."

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We have to find the sweet spot between 'The American dream' and 'Corporate America'. If we do not figure out a way to allow small business to flourish whilst also allowing a self sustaining equation of effort=reward. Corporations will continue to play Pac-Man until it is impossible for anything else to eat the efficiency costs of overregulation and we will literally be corporate slaves.

If small businesses fail, competition fails. Oh but the corporations will compete! Uh-huh just like there competing in the auto/computer/console area right?

Whom ever controls the money, controls the laws, whom ever controls the circulation of money controls the people.

There will be huge civil rights movements in the coming years, but either way the two laws above still imply. Give a inch and take a mile, but if it comes to this it will be to late.

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No matter what recipe is circulated: unless there is a little more popular participation in the political process and a little more willingness of the people to inform themselves about the issues beyond the usual CNBC and Fox yaddah (that really don't deserve the attribute news, but should be called "what they want to hear" outlets and generally are served up by people as ignorant as their audience) there is no solution.

Sitting in front of the idiot making box and besides burping after every can of beer only to open the mouth to eat or blame Washington leads us nowhere, except down the same path we are already on.

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Thread cleaned

Keep it civil please.

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as usual "people are at fault" liberal bull crap. i bet you think you are not like those people, lol, of course, if everyone was like you we'd never had any problems, lmao.

news flash for you, people did not cause this mess, politicians did, and don'tr bring up "you voted for them" crap.

The last time I checked, politicians were people. Therefore, people are at fault for causing this "mess". Why not bring up "you voted for them"? A person doesn't just wake up one morning and decide they are going to be a politician, travel to D.C., walk into the Capital Building, sit down, and become a Senator or Representative. People in this country must vote them in. If you do not like what they are doing, don't vote for them and hope others feel the same way. Or, what's beautiful about this country, you can decide to run for political office opposing them. Bottom-line, a lot of people voted these politicians into office and if we want something to change the 'we" need to express that by choosing different candidates and getting active in our government.

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The ancient Roman Empire fell, and the world got over it.

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The ancient Roman Empire fell, and the world got over it.

Took a while though... and while many in the US like to compare themselves to Rome: not even near it. Rome in its heyday was ruling over 60% of the civilized world.

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The ancient Roman Empire fell, and the world got over it.

It may be a bit arrogant to compare the United States to rome. We are vastly different than and have been a super power for a blink of an eye.

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We definitely need that 28th Amendment – the Balanced Budget Amendment. We can no longer assume that the government is going to do their jobs.

And I agree with term limits. People should not become career politicians.

Pay down the debt and stop raising the debt limit.

Close the border! Build up earthen barriers. We can look into Amnesty later. I am for Amnesty in certain cases, but illegals are criminals and they still need to pay restitution. Those that serve in the armed forces should get citizenship with no strings. Others that do get Amnesty, they can’t vote for 20 years or so. There are those that are more American than anything else. They go to school or to work and are a productive member of society. If neighbors and friends step forward to become sponsors and they are willing to jump through hoops to get righteous, a path should be provided.

I think that only land owners (property owners) should be allowed to vote. These are people that have “skin” in the game. Those in the armed forces would be included. It doesn’t matter what your race, gender, or preference is. But this will weed out the low information voter. This one and the immigration one above will also stop rampant buying of votes.

Lobby reform. Corporations that reach “monopoly” status cannot lobby government. But for the individual to still have the Right to lobby their Representative needs to be protected and never pushed out of the way for the corporation.

Repeal Obamacare. And replace it with a reasonable approach that doesn’t involve forcing the people into dependency or encouraging them to work less.

Encourage a sense of Entrepreneurism in everyone. Everyone has a skill or a talent that they can exploit on their own and there is plenty of need in this country for these services.

Encourage patriotism and citizenship based on the Constitution. Naturalized citizens know more about the government than natural born. Instill more active participation in the political process. These last two can be setup in PSAs or like “School House Rock”.

Phase out all welfare and entitlements and replace it with Gore’s Lockbox. Have one mega pile of money where people in need can dip into as a safety net. With the stipulation that when they get back on their feet, they are obligated to pay it back. Pay-it-forward would be far more preferable. If you just pay it back, you’re charged a user fee. Pay-it-forward will keep it local. If you cannot pay it back by the time you are deceased, your offspring will inherited it. For most people, they won’t screw their children where they would easily screw the government. But each generation that it continues, adds on user fees.

Entitlements like Social Security would be taken over by the individual so that they can invest it as they see fit.

Bring back manufacturing and small business by reducing taxes. The more manufacturing and business you have the broader the tax base which means less tax needed.

Repair infrastructure. That’s roads, bridges, rail, ports, air that are tied into national defense. Then let the states deal with the rest.

I’m sure there are more and every one of these will probably drive the Socialist crazy. That’s my pleasure.

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It may be a bit arrogant to compare the United States to rome. We are vastly different than and have been a super power for a blink of an eye.

We are nowhere near what Rome was and as in many ways Rome is nowhere near what we have been. I think there are many areas that making the comparison is admittedly dumb, but in many pertinent ways it is dead on, especially in the reasons of collapse.

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We definitely need that 28th Amendment the Balanced Budget Amendment. We can no longer assume that the government is going to do their jobs.

And I agree with term limits. People should not become career politicians.

Pay down the debt and stop raising the debt limit.

Close the border! Build up earthen barriers. We can look into Amnesty later. I am for Amnesty in certain cases, but illegals are criminals and they still need to pay restitution. Those that serve in the armed forces should get citizenship with no strings. Others that do get Amnesty, they can't vote for 20 years or so. There are those that are more American than anything else. They go to school or to work and are a productive member of society. If neighbors and friends step forward to become sponsors and they are willing to jump through hoops to get righteous, a path should be provided.

I think that only land owners (property owners) should be allowed to vote. These are people that have "skin" in the game. Those in the armed forces would be included. It doesn't matter what your race, gender, or preference is. But this will weed out the low information voter. This one and the immigration one above will also stop rampant buying of votes.

Lobby reform. Corporations that reach "monopoly" status cannot lobby government. But for the individual to still have the Right to lobby their Representative needs to be protected and never pushed out of the way for the corporation.

Repeal Obamacare. And replace it with a reasonable approach that doesn't involve forcing the people into dependency or encouraging them to work less.

Encourage a sense of Entrepreneurism in everyone. Everyone has a skill or a talent that they can exploit on their own and there is plenty of need in this country for these services.

Encourage patriotism and citizenship based on the Constitution. Naturalized citizens know more about the government than natural born. Instill more active participation in the political process. These last two can be setup in PSAs or like "School House Rock".

Phase out all welfare and entitlements and replace it with Gore's Lockbox. Have one mega pile of money where people in need can dip into as a safety net. With the stipulation that when they get back on their feet, they are obligated to pay it back. Pay-it-forward would be far more preferable. If you just pay it back, you're charged a user fee. Pay-it-forward will keep it local. If you cannot pay it back by the time you are deceased, your offspring will inherited it. For most people, they won't screw their children where they would easily screw the government. But each generation that it continues, adds on user fees.

Entitlements like Social Security would be taken over by the individual so that they can invest it as they see fit.

Bring back manufacturing and small business by reducing taxes. The more manufacturing and business you have the broader the tax base which means less tax needed.

Repair infrastructure. That's roads, bridges, rail, ports, air that are tied into national defense. Then let the states deal with the rest.

I'm sure there are more and every one of these will probably drive the Socialist crazy. That's my pleasure.

Sorry makes to much sense and would hinder our agenda to create a whipless labor force. Huehuehue

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"GET A JOB and work hard, so you can have the money to pursue your dreams/passions...and IF you are very lucky, you can find a job that pays you to pursue your passions."

So true, your father is/was a wise man.

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hmmm did i say something wrong perhaps? :unsure2:

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So let me guess, Ravenhawk, after your oft-ranted about Amendment gets passed, warfare is still going to get that special "Supplemental" treatment from the bureau and not even make it onto your "balanced budget".

You can't balance a budget with your world view.

I hate to break the bad news here, but your position is financially incompatible with your position.

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While government, especially at the federal level, is not an analogue of an individual, an individual could never get away with the things that the government does for long. If you or I spent money as wastefully and as recklessly, if we borrowed like there was no tomorrow, if we ran up debt far beyond our means to repay, we would face bankruptcy or incarceration. There are organizations that track government waste and abuse and sometimes it defies belief. I started to list a few of them but frankly it just makes me angry, if our country were awash in money, then maybe you could justify some of it, but we are not: our National Debt is nearly $17.4 trillion dollars and rising, yet we can't even make modest cuts or reign in some pet study.

Then too, our government was divided into three branches in an attempt to separate and limit the scope of power in any one branch. It would appear Congress has ceded much power to the Executive branch. Laws are being ignored or changed on a whim. The IRS is being used to target one group that disagrees with the current administration and its policies, while ignoring another group that favors them. Charles Krauthammer recently likened this abuse (or dereliction) of power to a banana republic. Our media, which was to be the so-called "forth branch of government" was supposed to hold the government accountable to the people, but by and large they have done an abysmal job. Don't think this is an indictment of only the Obama administration, many of the currently policies started under Bush or Clinton, but they keep escalating with each new administration, as does the spending. Democratic Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee said recently that writing executive orders for Obama to sign is 'our number one agenda.' This is not how our Republic was designed to operate.

The USA will survive in some form or another, but whether it would be something our Founders or even our grandparents would recognize is another matter.

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