UK to Scotland: Walk away, lose the pound

[questionmark]

LONDON – It seems clear now that a divorce would be messy.

The British government warned Scotland on Thursday that if they voted to leave the United Kingdom, they would not be able to keep the pound.

“If Scotland walks away from the U.K., it walks away from the U.K. pound,” said U.K. Chancellor George Osborne in a speech in Edinburgh on Thursday, upping the ante in the battle over Scottish independence.

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[TheSpoon]

Hell yes, don't buy into the fear mongering. It won't be an easy road but it would set the bar for people aspiring for a road not already paved telling you where to go. "FFFREEEEEDDDOOOOOMMMMMM!!!"

[Sean93]

As far as Scottish independence goes, if it's successful I can only imagine that there will be a new drive for Irish independence here in the 6 Counties of the North.

I look forward to finding out what will happen. Scotland have their own currency anyway, it just happens to be mildly circulated and treated with suspicion outside of Scotland itself.

I wouldn't mind seeing Scotland independent, it would be a funny and strange day. Braveheart marathons all round.

[stevewinn]

well for the record i do not want Scotland to leave the United Kingdom. but i fully understand that if on September 18th the Scottish vote YES to leave then that is their democratic right. make no mistake about it, it will be a sad day in our History. So as the rest of the UK contemplates the possibility of Scotland leaving we have to continue with the business of what's best for our future and National interests.

When it comes to currency the pound sterling politicians have decided that its not in our National interest to let the Scottish continue to use the pound sterling, The Bank of England as no interest in acting as the backer, guarantor to what will be a foreign country. this is the cold hard truth, this independence vote is not about taking on the Tories, its about Scotland becoming an independent foreign country.

The SNP have led their supporters up the garden path. its evident by their lack of a plan B. Salmond as come out stating its the three main British parties ganging up on Scotland. Its not, this is simply politics on the world stage.

He continues to say that Scotland can continue to use the pound because there is still negotiations to be done, who is he fooling. what planet is he on. there is nothing to negotiate when it comes to the Bank of England. Hes living in some sort of fantasy world, the white paper proves it. He even said Scotland would not repay its debt if not allowed continued use of the pound sterling. Salmond is amateur at best, because which country, central Bank is going to act as guarantor of a Independent country who refuse to service their debts?

Salmond also made it clear the pound sterling is only a half way house, with a Independent Scotland eventually applying to join the EU and Euro currency. lets remind ourselves his and the SNP's first option was for iScotland to join the EU and Euro currency when it was clear an iScotland were told by the EU themselves they'd have to apply to join the EU and that would take five years minimum and that iScotland does not even meet the criteria for joining the Euro currency. the panic set in and all of a sudden the SNP nationalists decided, oh dear, oh dear dear dear, what shall we do now, i know, i know, we'll continue to use the pound sterling, but without even asking. now its clear an iScotland will not be allowed to use the pound sterling currency - Bank Of England.

Salmond has Cherry picked, plotted and planned for a Independent Scotland to be run like it is still part of the UK. the Cold hard light of reality is shining on the SNP and showing going Independent means that going independent. standing alone against the world in all areas, economic, trade, domestic affair etc etc...

If the Scottish vote Yes to leave, i wish them well. but im afraid it will end in tears. and would likely be back within 10 years. because the UK would block any attempt at EU membership. we'd block any attempt for membership of NATO. and so on and so on, its not bully boy tactics, its politics. welcome to the world of geopolitika. and get use to it. because a country with 5.1 million will not stand as equals on the world stage. they'll be stood upon.

[skookum]

I just hope the Scottish people get what they want. Ideally think we are better as the UK but I respect their decision.

This has been on the cards all along and should have been sorted from the beginning. Salmond just hasn't done his homework, he assumed an independent Scotland would be automatic EU members but it seems that many members believe they would have to apply like other new nations. This still hasn't been sorted and now he has losing the pound on top of that.

Makes you wonder what else he has purely assumed.

[questionmark]

I just hope the Scottish people get what they want. Ideally think we are better as the UK but I respect their decision.

This has been on the cards all along and should have been sorted from the beginning. Salmond just hasn't done his homework, he assumed an independent Scotland would be automatic EU members but it seems that many members believe they would have to apply like other new nations. This still hasn't been sorted and now he has losing the pound on top of that.

Makes you wonder what else he has purely assumed.

The only real impediment for Scotland to get back into the EU within 2 years is Britain... but as Britain is about to leave...no biggie.

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

If the Scots want Independance then let them have it but as i have said once before,as long as the English tax payer doesn't foot the bill.

Could not Scotland continue to use the Pound anyway,as it says in the above article Panama uses the US dollar ?

Edited February 14, 2014 by shaddow134

[questionmark]

If the Scots want Independance then let them have it but as i have said once before,as long as the English tax payer doesn't foot the bill.

Could not Scotland continue to use the Pound anyway,as it says in the above article Panama uses the US dollar ?

Yes, every country can use whatever they think is viable as currency, cow turds if need be. (much of the Balkans used the German Mark when Yugoslavia went down the tubies) The disadvantage about using the pound long term for an independent country is that it would have no influence over the monetary policy.

[Border Collie]

The only real impediment for Scotland to get back into the EU within 2 years is Britain... but as Britain is about to leave...no biggie.

That very much remains to be seen. Particularly in the time scale you mention. Highly unlikely to say the least.

[questionmark]

That very much remains to be seen. Particularly in the time scale you mention. Highly unlikely to say the least.

Even if the UKIP should make significant gains in elections it won't happen, I know that in Britain nobody will saw off the branch they are sitting on.

What bothers most really is not the EU, but that others have a say in it too and, from time to time, can down vote Britain's opinion. But that comes with it.

[keithisco]

Even if the UKIP should make significant gains in elections it won't happen, I know that in Britain nobody will saw off the branch they are sitting on.

What bothers most really is not the EU, but that others have a say in it too and, from time to time, can down vote Britain's opinion. But that comes with it.

When it comes to accesion to the EU then the vote must be unanimous. As already indicated , Scotland would have to join the queue

[Finity]

Scotland is going to screw themselves with this hole independence thing, almost guaranteed. Taking the pound off them is probably the safest path for the rest of the UK because letting them keep it is very high risk, this is also the reason the EU may not accept them. Once Scotland goes independent their economy risks falling appart, plus most of their state funded benefits will have to go and taxes will have to rocket to foot the bills that the UK used to pay for.

I think they have the idea that it's going to turn in to a rich tax heaven like some other small nations, but it just isn't. It's in the wrong part of the world and pretty much all their trade will have to go through England.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Finity

[questionmark]

When it comes to accesion to the EU then the vote must be unanimous. As already indicated , Scotland would have to join the queue

Tell that to Turkey, they have been in the queue for 30 years now. It has nothing to do with when you apply it but how compatible you are to the rest of the union, and according to that you get in faster or slower. Scotland, having already implemented most of the EU law (if not all) could join right away.

[Leonardo]

Tell that to Turkey, they have been in the queue for 30 years now. It has nothing to do with when you apply it but how compatible you are to the rest of the union, and according to that you get in faster or slower. Scotland, having already implemented most of the EU law (if not all) could join right away.

It would make sense for Scotland to apply to join the EU immediately, and once in they would be able to apply for a lot of grants to get the nation off the ground. I can see the EU wanting Scotland to then tie itself to the Euro.

Which would make Osborne's "lose-the-union-lose-the-pound" threat all the more hollow.

[Space Commander Travis]

Does anyone, however much emotional appeal the idea of Scotland the Brave being Free and everyone painting themselves blue and dressing in Woad to celebrate might have, really think they could go it alone on their own two feet without relying on support from anywhere, England or the EU? If they think they can, then by all means do so, if only because it would mean they wouldn't moan so much. Anyway, they already have the Scottish Pound, don't they? Couldn't they just keep that?

[questionmark]

Does anyone, however much emotional appeal the idea of Scotland the Brave being Free and everyone painting themselves blue and dressing in Woad to celebrate might have, really think they could go it alone on their own two feet without relying on support from anywhere, England or the EU? If they think they can, then by all means do so, if only because it would mean they wouldn't moan so much. Anyway, they already have the Scottish Pound, don't they? Couldn't they just keep that?

Yep, but try to buy something for that out of Scotland.

[Space Commander Travis]

Yep, but try to buy something for that out of Scotland.

That's what i mean, they already have that, don't they, according to Wikipedia, the free Encyclopedia, Scotland's three largest clearing banks (the Royal Bank of Scotland, the Bank of Scotland and the Clydesdale Bank) still print paper pound notes. These notes may be accepted as payment throughout the United Kingdom, but are much more commonly seen in Scotland; they represent the same Pound Sterling value as do Bank of England notes in England and Wales.

so couldn't they just adopt that as the official currency, isn't there a Scottish equivalent of the Bank of England? If there isn't, perhaps Alex might like to think of buying back the RBS and making it the official bank of Scotland. Problem solved.

[questionmark]

That's what i mean, they already have that, don't they, according to Wikipedia, the free Encyclopedia, Scotland's three largest clearing banks (the Royal Bank of Scotland, the Bank of Scotland and the Clydesdale Bank) still print paper pound notes. These notes may be accepted as payment throughout the United Kingdom, but are much more commonly seen in Scotland; they represent the same Pound Sterling value as do Bank of England notes in England and Wales.

so couldn't they just adopt that as the official currency, isn't there a Scottish equivalent of the Bank of England? If there isn't, perhaps Alex might like to think of buying back the RBS and making it the official bank of Scotland. Problem solved.

I doubt that a business bank would make a good national bank. In any case, they would need one regardless of the money they use.

[Thanato]

Same was said to Quebec when they attempted to Separate from Canada. Except they wanted to keep everything Canadian except the Crown and Parliament.

[keithisco]

A Scottish Pound is printed in Scotland but is still suject to Bank of Enland oversight and control. The Scottish notes feature different designs from those released by the BoE (same with the Euro's) and are difficult to spend south of the border - they are legal tender throughout the Stering area, but general acceptance as a note of credit is severely limited.

That aside: I see no reason fiscally or politically to allow an independent nation (if such a thing happens) to be allowed to join the Sterling Area of Dependent Territories.

Independence is just that - Independence.

[Harry_Dresden]

Scottish inderpendence is like a bomb that is ready to go off...the English want to defuse it and the Scottish nationalist wanna explode it. So its natural that the English would put on their nasty and sulky face to intimidate the Caledonians into voting inderpendence down. Scare mongering the Scots into believing that once independent, Scotland will be alone and without a currency, which is totally daft and counter productive to the English economy... once/if the independence bomb explodes the English will quickly become pragmatic for economic, security and political reasons and allow the Scots use the Pound Sterling until they are ready to move on...and Alex Salmond and the rest of the Scotish nationalists know this very well...and so does Cameron and the rest of the English establishment!

[stevewinn]

It would make sense for Scotland to apply to join the EU immediately, and once in they would be able to apply for a lot of grants to get the nation off the ground. I can see the EU wanting Scotland to then tie itself to the Euro.

Which would make Osborne's "lose-the-union-lose-the-pound" threat all the more hollow.

Lets remember it wont be only the UK who votes NO to allowing Scotland to Join, Spain for one will not allow Scotland to Join the EU, they've already come out and said this. and others in europe share this view, because of the effect on their own domestic politics

dressing in Woad to celebrate might have, really think they could go it alone on their own two feet without relying on support from anywhere, England or the EU? If they think they can, then by all means do so, if only because it would mean they wouldn't moan so much. Anyway, they already have the Scottish Pound, don't they? Couldn't they just keep that?

The Scottish pound is the pound sterling, its backed by the Bank of England. who is the lender of that money, its the system that gives the currency stability and the markets confidence.

That's what i mean, they already have that, don't they, according to Wikipedia, the free Encyclopedia, Scotland's three largest clearing banks (the Royal Bank of Scotland, the Bank of Scotland and the Clydesdale Bank) still print paper pound notes. These notes may be accepted as payment throughout the United Kingdom, but are much more commonly seen in Scotland; they represent the same Pound Sterling value as do Bank of England notes in England and Wales.

so couldn't they just adopt that as the official currency, isn't there a Scottish equivalent of the Bank of England? If there isn't, perhaps Alex might like to think of buying back the RBS and making it the official bank of Scotland. Problem solved.

Do not forget but which is always over looked - the Scottish bank notes are issued in Trust, they are not legal tender. You mention the Royal Bank of Scotland. if it wasnt for the Bank of England the Scottish would have been bankrupt as a country in the recent credit crisis. Alex Slamond held the "tiger" economies up as a blue print for Scotland. and we all know what happened to them. funny how he dosent use them as examples anymore.

Scottish inderpendence is like a bomb that is ready to go off...the English want to defuse it and the Scottish nationalist wanna explode it. So its natural that the English would put on their nasty and sulky face to intimidate the Caledonians into voting inderpendence down. Scare mongering the Scots into believing that once independent, Scotland will be alone and without a currency, which is totally daft and counter productive to the English economy... once/if the independence bomb explodes the English will quickly become pragmatic for economic, security and political reasons and allow the Scots use the Pound Sterling until they are ready to move on...and Alex Salmond and the rest of the Scotish nationalists know this very well...and so does Cameron and the rest of the English establishment!

I wish people would understand the stance by those who remain in United Kingdom is not about scaremongering or bullying. the SNP have asked the question about a monetary union and we have said NO. Salmond has made the mistake of thinking everything he demands would be accepted without question. he and the SNP have been exposed and with each exposure they relpy with accusations of bulliying or scaremongering - truth is its the cold hard truth about going for independence. Are SNP and their supporters so thick to just think nothing would change if they vote YES? they seem to think everything just continues as we see today, like going independence is in name only. with no changes. they need to realise and quick that they are voting to become a foreign country and will be treated as such, in the same way the United Kingdom treats foreign countries today.

Why should the Bank of England act as a guarantor for a foreign country? its like asking the Bank of England to act as a guarantor of any other foreign country - say Norway. or Slovakia both who have a similar sized population as Scotland. Its just not going to happen the SNP are in dreamland, the SNP were forewarned 18 months ago by George Osborne that a shared currency would be highly unlikely, Yet in those 18 month the SNP never came up with a plan B. it shows you just how inept they are.

The SNP can continue to use the Scottish banknotes, but who is backing the currency? not the Bank of England so who is? whose going to invest in a country with a currency not backed by a financial institute and one without a track record. and Salmond already made matters worse by stating he wouldn't accept Scotland's share of the National debt. He thinks the SNP can lead an independent country with a clean slate. well thats going to give the markets confidence in Scotland isnt it, a country who refuses to service its debts, It reminds me of Argentina who the World Bank IMF - wont even lend to, due to them not servicing their debts.

Its true Scotland could peg, the Scottish pound to the pound sterling, but instead of borrowing from the bank of England at 0.5% they'd then have to borrow on the world markets, at 6.7% so taxes in Scotland would have to rise, and spending fall. Scotland would be faced with exposure to the global markets. no longer would they have the safety net of the Bank of England. (funny that, Scotland economically loses the safety net from below and loses NATO's safety umbrella from above)

Going independent changes everything at the fundamental level, the remaining members of the United Kingdom can absorb the leaving of Scotland, our Economy is much stronger, the 57 million population of the remaining United Kingdom can handle the change without a blip, iScotland's population is only 5.1 million. give an example of which there is many. according to the institute of Fiscal studies, total public spending was 10.8% higher per person in Scotland than in the UK as a whole 2011-12. in the same period Scotland spent £62Bn yet only raised only £45Bn. meaning the rest of the United Kingdom subsidised Scotland to the tune of £17Bn. so at worst the effect would be neutral, and at best the UK would be in surplus of £17Bn

A snap shot in Jobs - one in three Scots work for the civil/public sector, directly or indirectly, Scotland leaves and one in three jobs go south of the border. You have three Ship yards who rely on ship building for the Royal Navy. due to constitutional requirement the United Kingdom as to retain the sovereign ability to build and operate Royal Navy vessels from within the UK's borders. an independent Scotland would not be building any more Royal Navy ships, now or in the future. the government have already postponed the contract on ordering/building of the new type 26 Frigates until after the Scottish referendum for that very reason.

Oil, this seems to be the cash cow for the SNP, everything is based upon North Sea oil. truth is national boundaries only extend to 12 nautical miles off the coast. also you have to remember the investment for the exploration extraction and industry was shared by the UK as a whole. but not equally. 76% of that came from England alone. 10% from private industry. 14% Scotland, Wales Nr Ireland. so do the SNP think they are just going to own the oil fields? without reimbursing the remaining UK for their investment? - see its just a complete joke by the SNP. where the hell they get their ideas from only god knows. We can throw a spanner in the works in the sense of the Shetland Is, they have asked the question about remaining within the UK after a Scottish yes vote. guess what if that was the case most of the oil and gas rigs would be in what is considered the Shetlands Is territorial waters.

Edited February 15, 2014 by stevewinn

[Space Commander Travis]

Lets remember it wont be only the UK who votes NO to allowing Scotland to Join, Spain for one will not allow Scotland to Join the EU, they've already come out and said this. and others in europe share this view, because of the effect on their own domestic politics

The Scottish pound is the pound sterling, its backed by the Bank of England. who is the lender of that money, its the system that gives the currency stability and the markets confidence.

Do not forget but which is always over looked - the Scottish bank notes are issued in Trust, they are not legal tender. You mention the Royal Bank of Scotland. if it wasnt for the Bank of England the Scottish would have been bankrupt as a country in the recent credit crisis. Alex Slamond held the "tiger" economies up as a blue print for Scotland. and we all know what happened to them. funny how he dosent use them as examples anymore.

I wish people would understand the stance by those who remain in United Kingdom is not about scaremongering or bullying. the SNP have asked the question about a monetary union and we have said NO. Salmond has made the mistake of thinking everything he demands would be accepted without question. he and the SNP have been exposed and with each exposure they relpy with accusations of bulliying or scaremongering - truth is its the cold hard truth about going for independence. Are SNP and their supporters so thick to just think nothing would change if they vote YES? they seem to think everything just continues as we see today, like going independence is in name only. with no changes. they need to realise and quick that they are voting to become a foreign country and will be treated as such, in the same way the United Kingdom treats foreign countries today.

Why should the Bank of England act as a guarantor for a foreign country? its like asking the Bank of England to act as a guarantor of any other foreign country - say Norway. or Slovakia both who have a similar sized population as Scotland. Its just not going to happen the SNP are in dreamland, the SNP were forewarned 18 months ago by George Osborne that a shared currency would be highly unlikely, Yet in those 18 month the SNP never came up with a plan B. it shows you just how inept they are.

The SNP can continue to use the Scottish banknotes, but who is backing the currency? not the Bank of England so who is? whose going to invest in a country with a currency not backed by a financial institute and one without a track record. and Salmond already made matters worse by stating he wouldn't accept Scotland's share of the National debt. He thinks the SNP can lead an independent country with a clean slate. well thats going to give the markets confidence in Scotland isnt it, a country who refuses to service its debts, It reminds me of Argentina who the World Bank IMF - wont even lend to, due to them not servicing their debts.

Its true Scotland could peg, the Scottish pound to the pound sterling, but instead of borrowing from the bank of England at 0.5% they'd then have to borrow on the world markets, at 6.7% so taxes in Scotland would have to rise, and spending fall. Scotland would be faced with exposure to the global markets. no longer would they have the safety net of the Bank of England. (funny that, Scotland economically loses the safety net from below and loses NATO's safety umbrella from above)

Going independent changes everything at the fundamental level, the remaining members of the United Kingdom can absorb the leaving of Scotland, our Economy is much stronger, the 57 million population of the remaining United Kingdom can handle the change without a blip, iScotland's population is only 5.1 million. give an example of which there is many. according to the institute of Fiscal studies, total public spending was 10.8% higher per person in Scotland than in the UK as a whole 2011-12. in the same period Scotland spent £62Bn yet only raised only £45Bn. meaning the rest of the United Kingdom subsidised Scotland to the tune of £17Bn. so at worst the effect would be neutral, and at best the UK would be in surplus of £17Bn

A snap shot in Jobs - one in three Scots work for the civil/public sector, directly or indirectly, Scotland leaves and one in three jobs go south of the border. You have three Ship yards who rely on ship building for the Royal Navy. due to constitutional requirement the United Kingdom as to retain the sovereign ability to build and operate Royal Navy vessels from within the UK's borders. an independent Scotland would not be building any more Royal Navy ships, now or in the future. the government have already postponed the contract on ordering/building of the new type 26 Frigates until after the Scottish referendum for that very reason.

Oil, this seems to be the cash cow for the SNP, everything is based upon North Sea oil. truth is national boundaries only extend to 12 nautical miles off the coast. also you have to remember the investment for the exploration extraction and industry was shared by the UK as a whole. but not equally. 76% of that came from England alone. 10% from private industry. 14% Scotland, Wales Nr Ireland. so do the SNP think they are just going to own the oil fields? without reimbursing the remaining UK for their investment? - see its just a complete joke by the SNP. where the hell they get their ideas from only god knows. We can throw a spanner in the works in the sense of the Shetland Is, they have asked the question about remaining within the UK after a Scottish yes vote. guess what if that was the case most of the oil and gas rigs would be in what is considered the Shetlands Is territorial waters.

that's exactly it. Alex seems to assume that he'll be able to continue relying on the Bank of England to keep Scotland going, and even that he'll be able to just take whatever part of the British armed forces he likes (hasn't he said "oh, we'll just have two or three frigates, one RAF base will do for now, and a couple of regiments", and he just assumes that he'll be able to). He seems to be so overcome with emotional images of Scotland the Brave all painting themselves blue and waving their claymores in triumph that he doesn't seem to have thought any of it through except assuming that the British govt. would be happy to give him whatever he wants.

[stevewinn]

that's exactly it. Alex seems to assume that he'll be able to continue relying on the Bank of England to keep Scotland going, and even that he'll be able to just take whatever part of the British armed forces he likes (hasn't he said "oh, we'll just have two or three frigates, one RAF base will do for now, and a couple of regiments", and he just assumes that he'll be able to). He seems to be so overcome with emotional images of Scotland the Brave all painting themselves blue and waving their claymores in triumph that he doesn't seem to have thought any of it through except assuming that the British govt. would be happy to give him whatever he wants.

Its true, The white paper which was more like a shopping list, your right, he just went through cherry picking. one type 45 destroyer. here; three type 23 Frigates ;there, and the list went on to say about how they were needed to continued Scotland's NATO commitments. even though an independent Scotland wouldn't even be a NATO member, they'd have to reapply. Salmond just assumes and this is the SNP's downfall and when it falls apart he blames everyone else. Salmonds plan was fight this referendum debate on the basis of Salmond v Cameron. Cameron as refused to be drawn into it.

just to make another point about, the Shetland Is and Orkney Is. it was Angus MacNeil, the SNP’s rural affairs spokesman who admitted Shetland and Orkney would be permitted to remain part of the UK regardless of the referendum result. he said the islands would retain control over what he called a “fair fraction” of the North Sea oil and gas that Alex Salmond is relying on to fund public services. The Western Isles MP along with MSPs for Shetland and Orkney Isles, warned the islands could opt to remain part of the UK even if the rest of Scotland votes to separate. what people might be unaware of but of interest. the people of these Isles would rather remain British, or even Norwegian before being Scottish. Salmonds economic plan as been ripped to shreds. Oil/Gas revenue gone, monetary union with the UK a non starter. has the SNP got any credibility left? Only with the Bravehearts.

[Eldorado]

Well, I can only speak for myself. I don't like nationalism or nationalists but when I read the words and slurs and offensive labels spouted by my fellow Britons south of the border I have the overwhelming urge to throw-up and to vote Yes to independence when the time comes. I won't though.

*throws up*