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The GOP’s health crisis

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Oh dear. The Republican Party’s worst nightmare is coming true. Obamacare is working.

The news that nearly 1.2 million people signed up last month for insurance through the Affordable Care Act exchanges is highly inconvenient for GOP candidates nationwide. It looks as if the party’s two-word strategy for the fall election — bash Obamacare — will need to be revised.

Wednesday’s status report on the health-insurance reforms was by far the best news for Democrats and the Obama administration since the program’s incompetent launch. January was the first month when new enrollments surpassed expectations, as the balky HealthCare.gov Web site began functioning more or less as intended.

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Oh yeah...working like a charm...like a Rube Goldberg machine...

Mass stupidity doesn't mean something is good or functioning properly...

obamacareparadox_zpsfd526e26.jpg

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Oh yeah...working like a charm...like a Rube Goldberg machine...

Mass stupidity doesn't mean something is good or functioning properly...

obamacareparadox_zpsfd526e26.jpg

Will it not produce a work force of Part Time workers when it is fully imposed on Employers ?

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Jeremiah it seems your living in a broken economy if your little cartoon is true.

How did it get so bad that people carn't afford basic health services ?

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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Jeremiah it seems your living in a broken economy if your little cartoon is true.

How did it get so bad that people carn't afford basic health services ?

Br Cornelius

That IS the real question isn't it? I can sum that up in one all encompassing word...Greed.

Med students pay ridiculous tuitions that force them to charge high rates for office visits in order to pay for their education and the educations of their staff.

Malpractice insurance is a scam...costs a fortune, is abused most of the time and lines the pockets of the malpractice insurers stockholders and backers.

Big Pharma rapes the people by not ever curing anything...only making it "manageable illness".

Hospitals charge an arm and a leg to pay for their board of directors and staff...

Medical supply companies charge an arm and a leg because the hospitals and doctors can afford it (this is such circular retardedness I can't even explain it)

Our medical system is way past broken but instead of fixing the roots, they dodge and create new ways to ignore a serious problem...healthcare and "life" should not come at a price tag that only the rich and wealthy can afford...but I guess it's a new form of population control...

inB4..."omg...why can't they make a vulgar profit"...profit is not the problem...unbridled greed is the problem...in healthcare and just about every other walk of life. Luxury things and unnecessary accessories...charge out the @ss for them, I do not care...but necessities of life...that is a different animal to true "human beings"...

Edited by Jeremiah65
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Jeremiah it seems your living in a broken economy if your little cartoon is true.

How did it get so bad that people carn't afford basic health services ?

Br Cornelius

Or a even better question. Why make it so much worse. Intentionaly no less.

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That IS the real question isn't it? I can sum that up in one all encompassing word...Greed.

Med students pay ridiculous tuitions that force them to charge high rates for office visits in order to pay for their education and the educations of their staff.

Malpractice insurance is a scam...costs a fortune, is abused most of the time and lines the pockets of the malpractice insurers stockholders and backers.

Big Pharma rapes the people by not ever curing anything...only making it "manageable illness".

Hospitals charge an arm and a leg to pay for their board of directors and staff...

Medical supply companies charge an arm and a leg because the hospitals and doctors can afford it (this is such circular retardedness I can't even explain it)

Our medical system is way past broken but instead of fixing the roots, they dodge and create new ways to ignore a serious problem...healthcare and "life" should not come at a price tag that only the rich and wealthy can afford...but I guess it's a new form of population control...

inB4..."omg...why can't they make a vulgar profit"...profit is not the problem...unbridled greed is the problem...in healthcare and just about every other walk of life. Luxury things and unnecessary accessories...charge out the @ss for them, I do not care...but necessities of life...that is a different animal to true "human beings"...

Reminds of what Hoover once said; "The trouble with capitalism is capitalists; they're too damn greedy."

Edit: Of course the Gorden Gekko types of today would scoff at that.

Edited by Purifier

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Some will spazz and think I fell out of my wheelchair and bumped my head on the padded cell wall.

There is nothing wrong with making profits...but deep down inside, we all know what the problem is...there should be a point where "enough is enough"...but the modern mental illness of wealth hoarding has no limits...and say what you want...wealth hoarding is just as real of a mental illness as hoarding cats or drug and alcohol addiction...it's that empty hole that runs through the middle of people and no amount of drugs or alcohol or cats or money can ever fill that hole.

Wealth hoarding is just applauded by the media as being socially acceptable and should be the desire of us all...it's still a sickness

Edited by Jeremiah65
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hey don't let merc find this thread, his head will explode.

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We all know that when insurance companies stick their head in that prices suddenly double. Ever wondered why the car windowscreen repair man asks will you be picking up the bill or charging it to the insurance company - so he can adjust the price accordingly.

It seems to be a failure of the rhetoric about markets to explain the reality of markets.

The sad fact is that a fully nationalized health service such as in the UK and Canada produces costs half of any private insurance health system. Part of this has to do with the willingness to leverage buying power to fight back against big-pharms profiteering, but an even more important part is there is no essential need for profit within health care, and profit simply results in higher end user costs when people have to absorb the black hole that is profit. Markets do not have to do everything - only the things they are good at.

Br Cornelius

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The sad fact is that a fully nationalized health service such as in the UK and Canada produces costs half of any private insurance health system.

there is no essential need for profit within health care, and profit simply results in higher end user costs when people have to absorb the black hole that is profit.

And how does that affect quality, speed and efficiency?

Is there a need for profit in the housing/home building industry? What about the food industry? They are equally as detrimental to a healthy life in the modern world. The health industry is requires skilled labor, research and development, tools, equipment, overhead and everything else a business requires.

Who wants to do it for cost? What's the incentive? Please don't say the incentive is a healthy society. That is simply not motivating enough to produce quality and advancements in the field. That's not my opinion. That's a fact of human nature. Without profit the industry would still be giving people lobotomies, labeling anyone with a learning disability as certified idiots, cauterizing wounds with a hot poker and using shots of whiskey as anesthesia.

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And how does that affect quality, speed and efficiency?

Is there a need for profit in the housing/home building industry? What about the food industry? They are equally as detrimental to a healthy life in the modern world. The health industry is requires skilled labor, research and development, tools, equipment, overhead and everything else a business requires.

Who wants to do it for cost? What's the incentive? Please don't say the incentive is a healthy society. That is simply not motivating enough to produce quality and advancements in the field. That's not my opinion. That's a fact of human nature. Without profit the industry would still be giving people lobotomies, labeling anyone with a learning disability as certified idiots, cauterizing wounds with a hot poker and using shots of whiskey as anesthesia.

That is your claim, evidence seem,s to show that due to profits some of those procedures were still practiced when shown ineffective, especially lobotomies.

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I personally know people here in the US that use still use whiskey as anesthesia. Everything from rubbing on a toothing infants gums to quiet them to just getting plain old drunk to dull the pain from an injury so they don't have to go to the hospital. Seen one particularly sad fellow that basically stayed drunk for two years to avoid going to the hospital for what turned out to be a cancer that ended up killing him.

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And how does that affect quality, speed and efficiency?

Is there a need for profit in the housing/home building industry? What about the food industry? They are equally as detrimental to a healthy life in the modern world. The health industry is requires skilled labor, research and development, tools, equipment, overhead and everything else a business requires.

Who wants to do it for cost? What's the incentive? Please don't say the incentive is a healthy society. That is simply not motivating enough to produce quality and advancements in the field. That's not my opinion. That's a fact of human nature. Without profit the industry would still be giving people lobotomies, labeling anyone with a learning disability as certified idiots, cauterizing wounds with a hot poker and using shots of whiskey as anesthesia.

The NHS does a better job than the American system - providing all of the essentials - at cost. Health outcomes are about the same, but at half the per capita cost. That fact speaks for itself. Lets face it, the best research is done at the teaching hospitals and the universities. There is absolutely no benefit in applying profit to the delivery of health services.

The delivery of actual health products is a different matter - and big-pharm will continue to be the main player in the market there.

Lets also face the fact that those who want "better" there will always be a ready market for private health care over and above the national provision - and that is the reality as it exists in the NHS. The only unfortunate aspect of this is that those services are generally parasitic on the national provision who pick up the majority of the bill for training and infrastructure.

It serves us well to look beyond our own personal prejudices to see the reality at play behind the ideology.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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That is your claim, evidence seem,s to show that due to profits some of those procedures were still practiced when shown ineffective, especially lobotomies.

True but a bit of science and regulation along with, especially with, public education helped rid these practices. An informed people are as important as monetary incentive to produce quality.

I personally know people here in the US that use still use whiskey as anesthesia. Everything from rubbing on a toothing infants gums to quiet them to just getting plain old drunk to dull the pain from an injury so they don't have to go to the hospital. Seen one particularly sad fellow that basically stayed drunk for two years to avoid going to the hospital for what turned out to be a cancer that ended up killing him.

Damn! That is hardcore.

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True but a bit of science and regulation along with, especially with, public education helped rid these practices. An informed people are as important as monetary incentive to produce quality.

Damn! That is hardcore.

Suddenly you are in favor of government?

Strange, strange....

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Suddenly you are in favor of government?

Strange, strange....

I was going to retouch on that point for clarity but I figured you'd bring it up. You aren't dumb enough to believe that me and other similar minds are anti-government and anti-regulation. You know darn well we are against over-regulation and BIG government. Wise as you are you're certainly not above petty semantics.

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How do we define working?

From this biased article. And do we except that number to keep rising for some reason? wouldn't everyone who wants it already be getting it. plus if young people can stay on parents insurance until age 26 I don't see any incentive. Specially since we never get sick really in the 20's why would we sign up when we could just pay a really cheap fine instead.

"The numbers are even more encouraging when you look more closely. The proportion of young people — from 18 and 34 — who chose insurance plans through the exchanges increased slightly to 27 percent, compared with an average of 24 percent in previous months. This is important because premiums would have to rise if not enough young, healthy people enrolled.

The administration had hoped the percentage of young enrollees would reach about 40 percent."

Edited by spartan max2

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I was going to retouch on that point for clarity but I figured you'd bring it up. You aren't dumb enough to believe that me and other similar minds are anti-government and anti-regulation. You know darn well we are against over-regulation and BIG government. Wise as you are you're certainly not above petty semantics.

The point is: how much is too much and where is the government more disruptive than constructive?

And that has not been answered by any "anti-government" movement.

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The point is: how much is too much and where is the government more disruptive than constructive?

And that has not been answered by any "anti-government" movement.

Well there's no easy or absolute answer. The problem we face is a government who never draws a line and the argument we face is against those who never think enough is enough and labels anyone who talks of cuts and limits as essentially anti-government anarchists. There's never a reasonable discussion about it.

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Well there's no easy or absolute answer. The problem we face is a government who never draws a line and the argument we face is against those who never think enough is enough and labels anyone who talks of cuts and limits as essentially anti-government anarchists. There's never a reasonable discussion about it.

There are no absolute answers except in church, I would already be happy with a relative answer, that seems to be reduced to: We will do something different.

Sorry, that is what they all say.

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About eight months and counting.... the only thing that saves the Democrats is a self destructive Republican party.

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There are no absolute answers except in church, I would already be happy with a relative answer, that seems to be reduced to: We will do something different.

Sorry, that is what they all say.

Which is exactly what you say too. Obamacare sucks but at least it's something [different]. You've said that a million times. You don't have any answers either.

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Which is exactly what you say too. Obamacare sucks but at least it's something [different]. You've said that a million times. You don't have any answers either.

I did not say it is different, I said it is better than none.

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