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behavioralist

When is Love Ever Wrong or Misappropriated?

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“Who can separate the intense from the sacred? People kill over intense beliefs, as if they were the soul and they were killing the soulless.”

Love is the distinction ‘Real Family’. The people and creatures one loves are one’s real family. If I don’t love my sister, for example, she is family but not my real family. If I go to her funeral I’m not in mourning like when my dog dies.

But what about all those people I can’t love? Does someone love them?

If I make it a baseline that I love a woman in a certain way that makes us a new family, mates, then I find any love that is under that baseline artificial and contrived. For example, if a woman wants to leave me she is certainly welcome to. I don’t want to have “a right to her loyalty and favors”. I can only love my friends, and my friends can come and go as they please.

So who loves the guy who expects to own his mate, and who will fight anyone over that right including her? Someone does! In fact more people love that guy than love my independent type; and the bond is more powerful, which to me is that it is more terrible. In some entire nations and cultures that is the only kind of guy anyone accepts.

In the news recently, a girl was raped and the law where she lives states that any man who rapes a girl has to marry her. Imagine demanding that your rapist marry you, as your right under the law! From where most of us sit that is an improbable bond, but to that girl that marriage is something to kill for, a terrible bond; and only foreign ideas could bring her to complain about it instead of demanding it (which is how she got into the news; being beheaded or tortured for “heresy” is also commonplace, and it takes a foreign idea to suggest that it is history going considerably far astray, and that suppressing Christian fervor was a good thing because it’s a bit narrow to have to fervently believe every fairytale the Pope endorses as a survival skill).

Who can love a prostitute, or someone who employs prostitutes? These people do love, as far as they know, and their love is an overpowering bond. They become family with each other when they really click.

And what is the baseline of prostitution? What are the extremes of age-difference? How many prostitutes can one person love and be loved by? This can become a harem-effect. Can the whole harem love the employer, be a family, forge a powerful bond together?

Can incest be powerful in this same bonding sense, so that a child would gladly kill someone over the gifts his/her parent can dispense, and feel that it is only justice because to qualify in some technical sense for a gift is not anything approximating being family? The love-bond is transcendent, sacred, no matter how perverse it seems to those who have set the bar of what constitutes love “higher”.

Is intensity higher, or just more desperate? Is qualifying in some more practical sense a truly monstrous nemesis, so that the more the family-trait as it relates to child-rearing has made it impossible to compete in that arena, the more desperately and perversely one bonds as love and family? Who can separate the intense from the sacred? People kill over intense beliefs, as if they were the soul and they were killing the soulless.

Does family, which here is defined as love, entitle one to something? Does it trump qualifying, if there are positions the one who loves us has the power to administrate? The extended nepotism-effect; family above all others. Does love mean that qualifying in any less “sacred” way is stealing the job or position? Is love a much higher purpose than efficiency, order, progress or harmony/compassion?

If a beloved prostitute has become the police-chief, isn’t he also the poacher-master the department is supposed to be stopping; so that soon the nature-reserve will have been “spent” on his finery?

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I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying so I'll just answer the question:

When is Love Ever Wrong or Misappropriated?

Whenever Love is used to manipulate or control others (even if you think it is for a 'good' reason in your mind).

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When it is one sided and is not returned or taken advantage of to get something.

I hope you wouldn't mourn your sisters death like you would your dog.

If your seeing a prostitute I wouldn't call that love but paying for sex. Sex doesn't necessarily mean love is involve. I'm sure they do feel love for someone though but not just because they are sleeping with them or employed by them.

I would say if there is 20 years or more difference in age that is extreme. At some point they are going to look more like grandma or grandpa to you than someone you want to be romantically involved with.

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And one would question the association of love and manipulation. Love is one of the most misidentified emotions of all. If it doesn't make one a better person than i question whether it's love at all.

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Well, if love exists over things like lust and self-gain genuinely then I guess that's when it trumps any other. Misappropriated loved would obviously be fake love but since it's not really 'love'.

Love is a really strong word to use when you say it regarding another person.

It's all very easy to say that you love your mother or father or other family members because it's obligated from birth - you kind of have to or an outcry ensues. Even when family members may do something wrong to others or each other, love is still obligated there: 'He may have done those terrible things but I still love him - he's my son.'

The same applies to relationships too when people are throwing 'I love you' to each other and a billion x's in each text message without fail because after a while of being together, it becomes expected and obligated and thus love really does lose it's meaning and 'spark' so to speak. I know people in real life like this - one such person has a clingy as hell girlfriend who will say 'Love you' every 5 minutes to him and he, in obligation of course will say 'Love you too' back but in his voice, I can hear that each time he repeats the phrase it get's a little less genuine and becomes a muscle memory reaction to hearing the phrase - it's expected. That leads me to question their veracity of their 'love' because it's so fake looking then; that in itself may be the 'wrong' kind of love because it's not genuine and this usually comes from being together for a long enough period of time that it takes on the same form of obligated and expected love that one should show to a parent. How many people would actually have the balls to tells family the way they really felt if they didn't love them.

Of course I could be speaking from my own feelings - I'm confused by the term love. I find it hard to say to anyone else who says it. I know there are people I like but love (being such a strong word as it is) would feel fake coming from my mouth, even towards family members.

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I dont think we can let just things around us or things we do define us. I think you're looking at the wrong place if you try to find what kind of emotions are inside you by looking at others. You can mirror them, as you say, but I dont think you can define them like that. Or well of course you can if you decide so, but I dont think it's the only way nor the way. Mirroring is mirroring, it's comparing. Defining is defining, it's getting to the essence of thing. It's not just a word-game.

That's the baseline I have for love. As long as it's in your heart, it's there. But the love could get more powerful if you support it through messing with the outside world, like showing it in different ways. And when you open yourself to the outside world, because it goes both ways.

I dont think there's anything to be judged in prostitution itself, but in pimping and in taking advantage of prostitutes and in making it more lucrative than other jobs and thus financially forcing people to do it though you dont literally force them to do it... those things are wrong. We humans have a gift to make anything, pretty much anything, to become the most perverted and hated of things.

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When "love" is being made on school grounds :yes:

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Where did love originate; and how far are we away from that environment? If my mother has always said that she was obsessively attentive when I was a helpless infant, how much of that was to cover up that she kept dropping me on my head? And which do I love, the mother she says she was or the one she was?

Things have so many hidden aspects: you have college plans, get accepted to the best schools, and suddenly your dad has a mistress he has spent far in excess of your college fund on, and mom is going to wring him dry in the divorce. Do you love your family because it is going to support you when it isn’t legally obligated to; and do you stop loving them when you find out who they are and have been?

When your dad was telling you to study hard and get accepted to a good school, you were being played; he knew there was no college fund; he knew you and your mother were just a pit-stop in his real race to have a life.

Where is the thing that the word “love” settles on? Money? Mother would use me for hamburger, until I got puberty, and suddenly “she loved me”; which meant she hated me for dating. It can’t settle on the lies, can it? Actually, though, my sister deleted me from her Facebook after repeatedly telling me (not hinting or suggesting) to lie to her, and getting nowhere. (I want people to lie to me because that’s my field of study; liars are the collectibles of my research; and volatility is just the polish on the stones.)

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I dont think we can let just things around us or things we do define us. I think you're looking at the wrong place if you try to find what kind of emotions are inside you by looking at others. You can mirror them, as you say, but I dont think you can define them like that. Or well of course you can if you decide so, but I dont think it's the only way nor the way. Mirroring is mirroring, it's comparing. Defining is defining, it's getting to the essence of thing. It's not just a word-game.

That's the baseline I have for love. As long as it's in your heart, it's there. But the love could get more powerful if you support it through messing with the outside world, like showing it in different ways. And when you open yourself to the outside world, because it goes both ways.

I dont think there's anything to be judged in prostitution itself, but in pimping and in taking advantage of prostitutes and in making it more lucrative than other jobs and thus financially forcing people to do it though you dont literally force them to do it... those things are wrong. We humans have a gift to make anything, pretty much anything, to become the most perverted and hated of things.

Don't you see any indication that prostitution is to be taking advantage of being "Able to take it" as well as "able to dish it out"? Society is a competition for stuff, and if you are ready to get Dirty, able to find sex a tool while others are intuitively reserving it for a pledge of family-making or for the fun two pretty people can have together since they invented birth-Control, that's an edge.

And whatever gave you that edge might have taken away the edge other people still have; so really you have no choice but to play it.

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Well, if love exists over things like lust and self-gain genuinely then I guess that's when it trumps any other. Misappropriated loved would obviously be fake love but since it's not really 'love'.

Love is a really strong word to use when you say it regarding another person.

It's all very easy to say that you love your mother or father or other family members because it's obligated from birth - you kind of have to or an outcry ensues. Even when family members may do something wrong to others or each other, love is still obligated there: 'He may have done those terrible things but I still love him - he's my son.'

The same applies to relationships too when people are throwing 'I love you' to each other and a billion x's in each text message without fail because after a while of being together, it becomes expected and obligated and thus love really does lose it's meaning and 'spark' so to speak. I know people in real life like this - one such person has a clingy as hell girlfriend who will say 'Love you' every 5 minutes to him and he, in obligation of course will say 'Love you too' back but in his voice, I can hear that each time he repeats the phrase it get's a little less genuine and becomes a muscle memory reaction to hearing the phrase - it's expected. That leads me to question their veracity of their 'love' because it's so fake looking then; that in itself may be the 'wrong' kind of love because it's not genuine and this usually comes from being together for a long enough period of time that it takes on the same form of obligated and expected love that one should show to a parent. How many people would actually have the balls to tells family the way they really felt if they didn't love them.

Of course I could be speaking from my own feelings - I'm confused by the term love. I find it hard to say to anyone else who says it. I know there are people I like but love (being such a strong word as it is) would feel fake coming from my mouth, even towards family members.

Why do domesticated goats Always need to hear each other when they are separated? Are they as insecure as a couple growing tired of each other, and having to cover up how their Eyes wander; and what they are Worth to people to whom they remain a novel conquest?

The most popular students are the best liars. Having nothing to call "love" that you can admit to is a competitive edge, because invention is the key, and truth is not invention; truth is naked.

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And one would question the association of love and manipulation. Love is one of the most misidentified emotions of all. If it doesn't make one a better person than i question whether it's love at all.

Isn't it more a question of love either preserving or recovering the original person? I expect that people are quite perfect apes, and that apes of any species are quite perfect people. I see it as a problem of captivity hailed as liberating, which is where nature is being in the Cage with the inescapable beasts. Only a recovery of our original view of Life and its evolution as our source of joy and kinship will bring invention to the level of creativity. We are like a hummingbird species that scorns all flowering plants, because we have made a God of sugar-water and plastic feeders.

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When it is one sided and is not returned or taken advantage of to get something.

I hope you wouldn't mourn your sisters death like you would your dog.

If your seeing a prostitute I wouldn't call that love but paying for sex. Sex doesn't necessarily mean love is involve. I'm sure they do feel love for someone though but not just because they are sleeping with them or employed by them.

I would say if there is 20 years or more difference in age that is extreme. At some point they are going to look more like grandma or grandpa to you than someone you want to be romantically involved with.

I Think maybe your idea is that only street-Hookers are prostitutes. Every prostitute would prefer a regular customer and hopes to narrow it down to one rich one. That one rich one is love, and he agrees with that.

If a girl loves me, what will she do for me in bed? Will I get that stuff you see in the *spam filter*s? Will I have to reciprocvate a hundred percemt, so that if I want to be treated to a porn-star I will also have to be one??

To buy "The Best of Everything" is not in my cards, and I don't want those cards; but that's love Worth competing for to those who compete hardest, while all my girlfriends had Little reason to cling to me, being more firiends with benefits than having won the job of being pampered by me.

Edited by behavioralist

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Don't you see any indication that prostitution is to be taking advantage of being "Able to take it" as well as "able to dish it out"? Society is a competition for stuff, and if you are ready to get Dirty, able to find sex a tool while others are intuitively reserving it for a pledge of family-making or for the fun two pretty people can have together since they invented birth-Control, that's an edge.

And whatever gave you that edge might have taken away the edge other people still have; so really you have no choice but to play it.

So you're saying prostitution is inherently worse than other jobs?

I think any job can be bad if you look at its worst aspects and dont have a choise in what standards you set for the job you do. For example, factory job can be bad if you're forced to deal with chemicals that eat holes to your lungs and make you dizzy just by smelling them. Or you can work in a clean and safe factory with reasonable workload surrounded by good people and company with high working ethics and good salary too, the hardest one to believe.

It's just a matter of making any work conditions humane and tolerable, and not forcing yourself to do the work that doesn't fit you. I worked one day at phone sales, call people and sell them magazines via phone.

The only difference between job and all kinds of voluntary work and help is that you should always get paid for the work. And that because of the money we tend to force ourselves to do things we wouldn't do for free, and especially in conditions we wouldn't do for free.

I've worked in a factory for some years and I could do it free. But at my pace, at times I pretty much choose, with whom I choose and be granted the possibility to learn all there is for me to learn in the production side. Then I'd gladly do it for free. But you always need to do something to make a living. Love might be a different matter than setting job conditions straight in any job.

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When it is one sided and is not returned or taken advantage of to get something.

I hope you wouldn't mourn your sisters death like you would your dog.

If your seeing a prostitute I wouldn't call that love but paying for sex. Sex doesn't necessarily mean love is involve. I'm sure they do feel love for someone though but not just because they are sleeping with them or employed by them.

I would say if there is 20 years or more difference in age that is extreme. At some point they are going to look more like grandma or grandpa to you than someone you want to be romantically involved with.

I come from a family that trades in wives for newer models; my step-mother is younger than I am;, and I have even had girlfriends that were really too Young for me, thinking I was getting back to Square one when in fact I was getting closer to the asylum.

What happens is that the larger the gap the more incest-related the younger person's attraction to you, which is due to incest-experience and all the baggage that comes with it. Keeping your grip on an older person is a violent sport, because experience dictates they eventually dump you; anything goes, and the older person has to be kept in the dark about the violence of your predilection. The family helps keep the older person "in line". They are all equally insane, a family trait.

This is as it should be. There should be second chances, perhaps, but not second youths.

Edited by behavioralist

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No, for me it's not a matter of love preserving or recovering the original person. To use my parents as an example, they were both so deeply wounded that they never recovered their original selves. Did that change how or if I loved them? Yeah, it did. I gradually began to understand that they did the best they could under extremely adverse circumstances. Not enough to give me a happy childhood, but enough to help me develop the tools to create a happy life for myself.

I don't get at all your reference to apes, but I assure you my parents are not apes, nor did they raise apes. If you have such a low opinion of humanity that you feel free to degrade people's lives into nothing more than fulfilling basic animal needs, if you fail to see struggle and triumph, compassion and grief, self-discipline, acquisition of knowledge and learning how to use it, and much more, than you have no insight into human behavior at all. Some of us have overcome a lot and have worked very hard to find joy & happiness & love, and don't even resent having to do the work nor even the least bit cynical. We're just happy to be here, to look for opportunities to co-create in a healthy way.

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And I think prostitution is overly stigmatised and sex and love dont always go hand in hand all the way, prostitutes are a small percentage of people who have sex without the love aspect. You could say it's the fault of society for making things like this, but I dont think we should do any job at all for money, because jobs should have some importance in them in the first place. And they should be something we see worth doing. I have more respect for prostitutes than for phone salespeople who have a job to harass others via phone, and I've heard the arguments they try to justify their work by saying the old ladies who they call to are so happy someone calls them, but what about the 80% others who dont like their calls? Why not keep a list of people who you do not call? Yeah. Because you dont do that job because it's important, but because it's money.

I dont see prostitution as a bad or wrong as a job. But all the things that happen around it, human traffic, pimps forcing them, the overall job and money situation of society driving them to be less picky about clients and about their working conditions... all those things around prostitution are bad. But it happens in other jobs too. In here we have foreign people working in construction for lower salary and probably in lower working conditions. Check how Dubai's fancy places were built, a million asian slaves lured in to build them in these modern times yes. But is doing construction work wrong? No.

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I Think maybe your idea is that only street-Hookers are prostitutes. Every prostitute would prefer a regular customer and hopes to narrow it down to one rich one. That one rich one is love, and he agrees with that.

If a girl loves me, what will she do for me in bed? Will I get that stuff you see in the *spam filter*s? Will I have to reciprocvate a hundred percemt, so that if I want to be treated to a porn-star I will also have to be one??

To buy "The Best of Everything" is not in my cards, and I don't want those cards; but that's love Worth competing for to those who compete hardest, while all my girlfriends had Little reason to cling to me, being more firiends with benefits than having won the job of being pampered by me.

There's always two (or more) parties to a trade of any kind, whether it's money or emotions or something else. If you get the good end of the stick and dont give the short end either, no problem right? But if you get the short end of the stick, better change your methods of approach. We human beings have a superficial side we cannot hope to escape, but we can hope to be able to put it to context with the rest of our sides.

In your situation I'd had just been myself regardless of the consequences, unless I had let some weakness take over me, like lust and obsession, my vices. Sex is for enjoyment, if you enjoy performing then sure but what's the point if performing isn't your thing? Who cares about your partner if they dont care about you. And no I wouldn't be a jerk in that situation, it's no big deal, just... when they wouldn't hang around you without your money, it's best you part ways if you ask me. Because there's real friends to be made out there, and if you dont have ones or dont think you can make ones, practise. It's surprisingly easy to lose the grip if you dont keep practising it and if you ain't an outgoing brave person by default.

And if you can make friends but not true friends, then you need to open your true self more and risk getting hurt.

Edited by Mikko-kun

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No, for me it's not a matter of love preserving or recovering the original person. To use my parents as an example, they were both so deeply wounded that they never recovered their original selves. Did that change how or if I loved them? Yeah, it did. I gradually began to understand that they did the best they could under extremely adverse circumstances. Not enough to give me a happy childhood, but enough to help me develop the tools to create a happy life for myself.

I don't get at all your reference to apes, but I assure you my parents are not apes, nor did they raise apes. If you have such a low opinion of humanity that you feel free to degrade people's lives into nothing more than fulfilling basic animal needs, if you fail to see struggle and triumph, compassion and grief, self-discipline, acquisition of knowledge and learning how to use it, and much more, than you have no insight into human behavior at all. Some of us have overcome a lot and have worked very hard to find joy & happiness & love, and don't even resent having to do the work nor even the least bit cynical. We're just happy to be here, to look for opportunities to co-create in a healthy way.

Only thinking, using knowledge, would result in Calling it a lesser thing to be an ape. The ape is subconscious, not because it is inferior to what conscious can do, but because the conscious is adpatation to a trapped situation. You are doing what I said in the observer-effect posting: Calling the wild ape the same as the caged ape. The mind that deals with Everything that comproses an evolving environment and habitat is profound (dealing with Everything in it together);while the mind as it deals with the Cage, no matter how many toys and pleasures you put into the Cage, aborts the profound mind.

As for how much people have done, how much more could they have done if they were not a species that Cages itself? It is like local Construction work: all the union members know the Chines could do it so much faster, cheaper and better; that they have to "lay down the law" to keep the Chinese out. And the Chinese do not work TRANSENDENTALLY better, which the human ape mind does.

I know it's hard to accept that the conscious is "amazed" by what people have done and can do only because it is all brainwashing. People who are making a lot of profit want us to say we are amazed, and what the boss wants to hear the lackey will eventually say as if he means it. Brainwashing is a tool of arrogation; you could be a free person.

And above all, if you are so down on apes, how will it ever be a passion with you to save the planet? Nothing moves Mountains of arrogated authority but love that we feel together. We human beings are not evolution on Earth!

Edited by behavioralist

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And I think prostitution is overly stigmatised and sex and love dont always go hand in hand all the way, prostitutes are a small percentage of people who have sex without the love aspect. You could say it's the fault of society for making things like this, but I dont think we should do any job at all for money, because jobs should have some importance in them in the first place. And they should be something we see worth doing. I have more respect for prostitutes than for phone salespeople who have a job to harass others via phone, and I've heard the arguments they try to justify their work by saying the old ladies who they call to are so happy someone calls them, but what about the 80% others who dont like their calls? Why not keep a list of people who you do not call? Yeah. Because you dont do that job because it's important, but because it's money.

I dont see prostitution as a bad or wrong as a job. But all the things that happen around it, human traffic, pimps forcing them, the overall job and money situation of society driving them to be less picky about clients and about their working conditions... all those things around prostitution are bad. But it happens in other jobs too. In here we have foreign people working in construction for lower salary and probably in lower working conditions. Check how Dubai's fancy places were built, a million asian slaves lured in to build them in these modern times yes. But is doing construction work wrong? No.

Don't you feel that you are reasoning within the trap, instead of "outside the box"? Only people can trap people! Why are you one of the Little people who can't say no one will ever be trapped again?

Is the problem that any love is love to the person bonded that way? One needs to put something on the Word love. I will asdmit that, as a Young student, I put sex there. The best sex was the most compelling reason to proclaim my love for the girl. Basically I wanted a prostitute, but with a fellow in my bracket a girl only sets the hook once or twice. The rest of the time it's Mutual service, so that you only get what you're prepared to deliver.

Do you notice how everyone who says we need a better kind of human being never means himself? He means he needs better slaves! The only way to find out what a better human being is, is to become one. Everything else is to arrogate what such a person has tried to explain, like the Dalai Lama speaking "Buddha" while wearing a ceremonial robe of tiger skins, which he Always has on order if there are any tigers left.

The human mind wants to get out of the box, but the box seems to hold Everything. A Child can see the stars but an astronomer "knows them", so he can never see them again. And all duplicity is like that: we know the presidents, we know the priests, we know the scientists, etc. They have all made sure we "know them", so that we will never see them.

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There's always two (or more) parties to a trade of any kind, whether it's money or emotions or something else. If you get the good end of the stick and dont give the short end either, no problem right? But if you get the short end of the stick, better change your methods of approach. We human beings have a superficial side we cannot hope to escape, but we can hope to be able to put it to context with the rest of our sides.

In your situation I'd had just been myself regardless of the consequences, unless I had let some weakness take over me, like lust and obsession, my vices. Sex is for enjoyment, if you enjoy performing then sure but what's the point if performing isn't your thing? Who cares about your partner if they dont care about you. And no I wouldn't be a jerk in that situation, it's no big deal, just... when they wouldn't hang around you without your money, it's best you part ways if you ask me. Because there's real friends to be made out there, and if you dont have ones or dont think you can make ones, practise. It's surprisingly easy to lose the grip if you dont keep practising it and if you ain't an outgoing brave person by default.

And if you can make friends but not true friends, then you need to open your true self more and risk getting hurt.

I would call it cavalier to suggest the option of getting hurt. People are my science, my research, and nature is my social circle. The conscious and nature are at odds, because the conscious wants "to know" other people, which is that it begs to be lied to, or when things are fact, "to be informed". Nature does not submit to being known. Like people do to their Children, they take animals from the wild, usually very Young ones, and make "pets" of them. As pets they lose their precious natures, and become more like adults.

To make a pet of a wild animal is to ruin it, and all human Children are ruined, trying to compensate with subterfuge. The only option I see is to discover the damage and undo it. I agree that it's an "impossible" option, "outside the box", but the potential is there to find a love that is not trapped and accepted as love in the box.

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Quite rough statements to say about wild animals and nature. Nature works on the same elements as the conscious us, but what we've lost is not the nature, but the fluency to handle those elements the way nature does. Predatory and survival instincts, and love. The instinct of life-death cycle, that we seem to have distanced ourselves from and instead have given it a competitive name of predatory survival and a stigma.

You need to know what box you want to get out of if you want to find love outside it. The problem is you can't teach it. You can only give a lesson to someone who's willing, but not teach them. They dont really "learn" if you teach. And to find someone willing, you need to show them the appeal in it, the appeal needs to be translated & transmitted somehow.

Those religious converter people, why most people avoid them is because they see the fallacious mindset of "I know what's best, listen to me!". If you are like that inside, it will show. We must learn to look outside our own boxes before we can help others look outside theirs, and I doubt it's a process with an end, though I wouldn't know. Doesn't have to be a bad process though... so much stuff hangs in the balance because of the attitute we take to these supposed-to-be drudgeries and stigmatized things.

I think that if you set out to "discover the damage" you're a bit amiss, because you assume there is damage. Is there really, or just insufficiency and incompleteness? Define damage: to cut away the benefical part and make the thing wither. Has that really happened? Is not what you should ask, but "what's the state of things?" instead of discovering the damage. If you ask me. You really need to keep dropping your assumptions, which doesn't mean saying to yourself that you were wrong, but it means saying to yourself "I might have not yet seen the whole picture".

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Quite rough statements to say about wild animals and nature. Nature works on the same elements as the conscious us, but what we've lost is not the nature, but the fluency to handle those elements the way nature does. Predatory and survival instincts, and love. The instinct of life-death cycle, that we seem to have distanced ourselves from and instead have given it a competitive name of predatory survival and a stigma.

You need to know what box you want to get out of if you want to find love outside it. The problem is you can't teach it. You can only give a lesson to someone who's willing, but not teach them. They dont really "learn" if you teach. And to find someone willing, you need to show them the appeal in it, the appeal needs to be translated & transmitted somehow.

Those religious converter people, why most people avoid them is because they see the fallacious mindset of "I know what's best, listen to me!". If you are like that inside, it will show. We must learn to look outside our own boxes before we can help others look outside theirs, and I doubt it's a process with an end, though I wouldn't know. Doesn't have to be a bad process though... so much stuff hangs in the balance because of the attitute we take to these supposed-to-be drudgeries and stigmatized things.

I think that if you set out to "discover the damage" you're a bit amiss, because you assume there is damage. Is there really, or just insufficiency and incompleteness? Define damage: to cut away the benefical part and make the thing wither. Has that really happened? Is not what you should ask, but "what's the state of things?" instead of discovering the damage. If you ask me. You really need to keep dropping your assumptions, which doesn't mean saying to yourself that you were wrong, but it means saying to yourself "I might have not yet seen the whole picture".

As you say, it's not a process with an end. It is evolution, and as soon as you see that evolution is a greater investment than being human in human society you can't help Calling it "something lost".

Do you really believe the subconscious is the inferior scope of the human being, so that having become thinking private "entities" or selves, we have transcended all that past?

And doi you Think that when you have fooled everyone, there is no higher evolving ability that you have not fooled, and which is quite tired of chasing mischief and malediction instead of chasing evolving charm as it was doing Before man invented verbal and histrionic deception?

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Ah, so because we can't be living like we used to, we've become less evolved, is that what you're saying? You mean when we started living in societies and settlements, farming and raising cattle, we started to forget our "nature"?

And I repeat myself about your assumptousness on your questions. You assume I say things, and ask based on those assumptions. How would you react if someone did you the same? What makes you do that to me, is what you should ask yourself.

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Setting up a s trawman then knocking them down takes no great intellect. Don't mistake fallacious arguments with wisdom or knowledge.

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When "love" is being made on school grounds :yes:

Hey, I know a teacher who did this when she was on the clock, and lost her job. And so did the other teacher . Definitely a bad idea.

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