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regeneratia

Vitamins are not helpful? What do you think?

37 posts in this topic

I don't know about you guys, but I get really tired of the lies in mainstream media.

Are multivitamins a waste of money? Editorial in medical journal says yes

By Nadia Kounang, CNN, http://www.cnn.com/2...tamins-studies/

updated 9:15 AM EST, Tue December 17, 2013

http://www.cnn.com/2...tamins-studies/

Meanwhile, on my professional website, we get things like this, just one of many, many:

Medscape Medical News > Conference News

Low Vitamin C Linked to Intracerebral Hemorrhage

Pauline Anderson, February 14, 2014, http://www.medscape....ail&uac=41475AT

If you have an article that discredits or supports the claim on vitamins, and you think people need to know it, post it here. Tell me what you really think.

Many other links can be found for this newly released research:

http://www.news.nom....k-8099796-news/

WHile the first article says that the jury is still out on Vitamin D, I don't know how much more research they are going to need, since there is already a plethora of informational research on Vitamin D:

http://search.eurekalert.org/e3/query.html?col=ev3new&col=ev3oneyr&col=ev3rel&qt=Vitamin+D&charset=iso-8859-1

Edited by regeneratia
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I'm sure scurvy agrees. :yes:

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This is something I keep going back and forth on.

Firstly because we know isolated chemicals and junk can effect you. Like drugs alcohol medicine protein drinks etc. So is it possible that taking vitamin supplements help you? idk

The arguments are that your body just flushes out whatever it doesn't use so taking vitamins doesn't really do anything unless you don't already get everything from your food. And another argument is that a lot of vitamins and things in food need other components for it to work. So if its not coming from its food source it probably doesn't have the other stuff.

But at the same time we know overdose on vitamins can hurt you, so it obviously has an effect, so would that mean that the right amount of vitamin supplements actually help? Idk

My problem with all the studies that say it has no effect on health is that this is something that is fairly difficult to test. So many cofounding factors and really what would you even look for to see if it helps people?

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Most vitamin supplements are as useful as tits on a bull, and that is not my opinion, that has been established by more than one study.

Vitamin supplements only make sense there where people do not eat appropriately, with a balanced diet you don't need them. With an unbalanced diet you are more likely to not use them either.

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I determine whether a vitamin is good for me by how I feel when I take it.

Anyway, if you ever need to research the research on Vitamins, here is a good place to look:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pubnews.php

This is something I keep going back and forth on.

Firstly because we know isolated chemicals and junk can effect you. Like drugs alcohol medicine protein drinks etc. So is it possible that taking vitamin supplements help you? idk

The arguments are that your body just flushes out whatever it doesn't use so taking vitamins doesn't really do anything unless you don't already get everything from your food. And another argument is that a lot of vitamins and things in food need other components for it to work. So if its not coming from its food source it probably doesn't have the other stuff.

But at the same time we know overdose on vitamins can hurt you, so it obviously has an effect, so would that mean that the right amount of vitamin supplements actually help? Idk

My problem with all the studies that say it has no effect on health is that this is something that is fairly difficult to test. So many cofounding factors and really what would you even look for to see if it helps people?

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Most vitamin supplements are as useful as tits on a bull, and that is not my opinion, that has been established by more than one study.

Vitamin supplements only make sense there where people do not eat appropriately, with a balanced diet you don't need them. With an unbalanced diet you are more likely to not use them either.

Yes, it is entirely clear that you do not take vitamins.

However, the research indicates that you should.

How about this research?:

Public release date: 16-Jul-2013

Vitamins and minerals can boost energy and enhance mood

CHICAGO- Vitamin and mineral supplements can enhance mental energy and well-being not only for healthy adults but for those prone to anxiety and depression, according to a July 15 panel discussion at the 2013 Institute of Food Technologists (IFT) Annual Meeting & Food Expo® held at McCormick Place.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-07/ioft-vam071613.php

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Yes, it is entirely clear that you do not take vitamins.

However, the research indicates that you should.

How about this research?:

Public release date: 16-Jul-2013

Vitamins and minerals can boost energy and enhance mood

CHICAGO- Vitamin and mineral supplements can enhance mental energy and well-being not only for healthy adults but for those prone to anxiety and depression, according to a July 15 panel discussion at the 2013 Institute of Food Technologists (IFT) Annual Meeting & Food Expo® held at McCormick Place.

http://www.eurekaler...t-vam071613.php

That is enough for me to dismiss that study. Standing on your hands 5 hours can also.....

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I take a multivitamin about every other day for good measure.

There is nothing like fresh fruits, and veggies, but I do not all ways have them enough out of habit.

I have grown nice healthy plants with nutrient powders for plants in soilless hydroponics.This powder is the chemicals that plants need broken down to a powder in a lab just like a vitamin is made into pill form.

Thouroughly chew, or puree a balanced diet, and vitamins are not needed, but lifestyles differ.

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I take a multivitamin about every other day for good measure.

There is nothing like fresh fruits, and veggies, but I do not all ways have them enough out of habit.

I have grown nice healthy plants with nutrient powders for plants in soilless hydroponics.This powder is the chemicals that plants need broken down to a powder in a lab just like a vitamin is made into pill form.

Thouroughly chew, or puree a balanced diet, and vitamins are not needed, but lifestyles differ.

Yes, I do a green and red drink as well. It is cheaper than going to the store for veggies and fruits that have no real guarentee for nutrition. You cannot turn a crop over in the same soil every 90 days and expect it to be nutritious. Had my drink, double dose, this morning.

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It is cheaper than going to the store for veggies and fruits

that have no real guarentee for nutrition.

Yes it might be cheaper but vitamin pills cannot replace the ingredients of fresh fruit+veggies, even not in a double or whatever

dose. Replacing fresh fruit+veggies over a long time of period by pills is insalubrious.

You cannot turn a crop over in the same soil every 90 days and

expect it to be nutritious.

Better you educate yourself in agriculture standards first before claiming such nonsense.

Had my drink, double dose, this morning.

Cheers!

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Yes it might be cheaper but vitamin pills cannot replace the ingredients of fresh fruit+veggies, even not in a double or whatever

dose. Replacing fresh fruit+veggies over a long time of period by pills is insalubrious.

Better you educate yourself in agriculture standards first before claiming such nonsense.

Cheers!

Yeah, I KNOW about those ivy-league trained Calif. agriculture practices. I am also a farmer's daughter. My impression still stands.

The drink consists of real veggies and fruits.

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Taking vitamins can be helpful to a certain point I guess, but taking too many or too much can be harmful. I always feel too much emphasis is put on everyone to take them. I don't know if they really do any good in the long run or not. For example a relative of mine has never taken vitamins in her life and she's now 93 years old and is still able to live by herself, with some help I will admit, but you can see the point I'm trying to make. Other members of my family take multivitamins but I don't take any and don't intend to.

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I guess I'll just comment from my own experience...

My dietary habits are LESS than ideal. I drink and I smoke, and my meals are not that healthy either, though occasionally very well.

Anyway... several things I do know. Each cigarette consumed "burns-up" 100 Mg of vitamin C. Thus, for heavy smoker's(I am not) on a poor diet may actually have no vitamin C in their body at all.

Secondly, I was recently in alcohol detox, and the docs said that I was "dehydrated, my electrolytes were way down, and I had an acute thiamine(vitamin B-1) deficiency."

The dehydration due to alcohol apparently expelled from my body many water soluble nutrients.

They IV'd me with a 2 bags of "water, electrolytes, general vitamins and thiamine in particular"

So, with those on a poor diet or poor lifestyle, supplements are necessary.

Of course, in a medical setting, "supplement bioavailabilty" is not a question with IV, as it bypasses the GI tract.

Not sure how this works with ingested pill OTC(over the counter) supplements, which does go through the GI tract. They never gave me a vitamin pill, but recommended I do so afterwards.

Edited by pallidin
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I read another artcle on the famous OPINION on vitamins. However it was all reported as fact in Mainstream media. First of all, what struck me, was that it was all opinion.(oh I gotta get my readers). Little of it is fact, and can be countered by additional reporting of vitamin research already done.

That central article was an OPINION!

ok, that being said.

Here is the real test:

How do vitamins make you feel? That is the real, honest to god test.

If you take vitamins, or just one supplement, do you feel better than if you don't take that vitamin or supplement?

Now the placebo effect is a very magical thing, can't hardly be quantified, but it has been tried, claiming tht it can account for 15% to 25% effective. Even if the good effect of the vitamin is placebo, that placebo effect is sometimes far more effective than the chemotherapy drugs that are given. Think about that for a while. IOW, Dr.s are giving certain chemotherapies that are less effective than the placebo effect.

This humble person accepts with open-heart the placebo effect, and will never take chemotherapy.

Edited by regeneratia

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You have my full support.

I guess I'll just comment from my own experience...

My dietary habits are LESS than ideal. I drink and I smoke, and my meals are not that healthy either, though occasionally very well.

Anyway... several things I do know. Each cigarette consumed "burns-up" 100 Mg of vitamin C. Thus, for heavy smoker's(I am not) on a poor diet may actually have no vitamin C in their body at all.

Secondly, I was recently in alcohol detox, and the docs said that I was "dehydrated, my electrolytes were way down, and I had an acute thiamine(vitamin B-1) deficiency."

The dehydration due to alcohol apparently expelled from my body many water soluble nutrients.

They IV'd me with a 2 bags of "water, electrolytes, general vitamins and thiamine in particular"

So, with those on a poor diet or poor lifestyle, supplements are necessary.

Of course, in a medical setting, "supplement bioavailabilty" is not a question with IV, as it bypasses the GI tract.

Not sure how this works with ingested pill OTC(over the counter) supplements, which does go through the GI tract. They never gave me a vitamin pill, but recommended I do so afterwards.

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Taking vitamins can be helpful to a certain point I guess, but taking too many or too much can be harmful. I always feel too much emphasis is put on everyone to take them. I don't know if they really do any good in the long run or not. For example a relative of mine has never taken vitamins in her life and she's now 93 years old and is still able to live by herself, with some help I will admit, but you can see the point I'm trying to make. Other members of my family take multivitamins but I don't take any and don't intend to.

What vitamins would be too much? The fat soluable are the only ones warned of decades ago, but currently they are backing off even that, excepting Vit. A, which can be toxic at huge serum levels.

I think you also have to differentiate between the vitamins and minerals needed by the human body to prevent diseases, and the concept that there are vitamin levels that provide optimum health. Obviously those levels will be far different.

Edited by regeneratia

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What vitamins would be too much? The fat soluable are the only ones warned of decades ago, but currently they are backing off even that, excepting Vit. A, which can be toxic at huge serum levels.

I think you also have to differentiate between the vitamins and minerals needed by the human body to prevent diseases, and the concept that there are vitamin levels that provide optimum health. Obviously those levels will be far different.

True. Vit. A can be toxic at high doses. Vit. C at 5000 once touted as beneficial for cancer patients, may actually be slightly harmful, but not toxic.

Of the minerals, potassium, calcium, zinc, selenium, etc... can cause major problems at high doses. Potassium supplements, for example, has been restricted to 100 mg per pill, due the dangers associated with potassium toxicity(heart problems), even though eating 3 bananas can exceed that. Ultra-high doses of a form of potassium is used in "lethal injection" to stop the heart.

So yeah, it's a balance. Based on personal health, dietary lifestyle, etc.

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For Smokers, or people under stress I suggest GNC's "Liquid-B Complex", and make sure it's the Complex.

I like to walk in GNC stores, and ask if they sell cigarettes for the angry reply I get. :w00t:

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What vitamins would be too much? The fat soluable are the only ones warned of decades ago, but currently they are backing off even that, excepting Vit. A, which can be toxic at huge serum levels.

The health consequences of going overboard on vitamins and minerals.

http://www.webmd.com...o-many-vitamins

I think you also have to differentiate between the vitamins and minerals needed by the human body to prevent diseases, and the concept that there are vitamin levels that provide optimum health.

The human body needs vitamins and minerals, nobody is saying anything to the contrary. Your topic is about opinions on taking supplements which is what I replied to and still stand by. Taking vitamins can do more harm than good if taken in excess.

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True. Vit. A can be toxic at high doses. Vit. C at 5000 once touted as beneficial for cancer patients, may actually be slightly harmful, but not toxic.

Of the minerals, potassium, calcium, zinc, selenium, etc... can cause major problems at high doses. Potassium supplements, for example, has been restricted to 100 mg per pill, due the dangers associated with potassium toxicity(heart problems), even though eating 3 bananas can exceed that. Ultra-high doses of a form of potassium is used in "lethal injection" to stop the heart.

So yeah, it's a balance. Based on personal health, dietary lifestyle, etc.

Yes, I thought of including K+ to that. Yes, there are ones I didn't mention and am so glad you did.

You really have to know what you are doing. But the world of information is now at our fingertips. There is no excuse not to be educated about the prescription drugs you take as well as all the supplements you take,.

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I personally have no respect whatsoever with webmd. In the 90's, they bought my favorite site, medscape and changed it drastically. I have yet to forgive them for that. Now it is just so incredibly pharmaceutical oriented. So much so that even the free educational stuff is sponsored by pharmaceutical companies and produced by the Dr.s they pay. Luckily there are still disclaimers on the site, regarding special interests by the dr.s and nurses who produce the educational modules. But even that will go by the wayside.

Medscape used to produce news about alternative and complementary medicine, prior to their purchase by webmd. However they don't anymore.

And yes, I agree that excess is not good. Excess of Rx drugs are NOT good either, and far more dangerous than food supplments.

The health consequences of going overboard on vitamins and minerals.

http://www.webmd.com...o-many-vitamins

The human body needs vitamins and minerals, nobody is saying anything to the contrary. Your topic is about opinions on taking supplements which is what I replied to and still stand by. Taking vitamins can do more harm than good if taken in excess.

Edited by regeneratia
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Too much of a good thing can kill you. Vitamin should be taken as part of an overall plan for health and prevention.

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The thing that most folks don't realize is that one needs very small amounts of vitamins and minerals and even the poorest diets provide enough (I'm talking the standard "poor" Western diet).

So unless you're an athlete or bodybuilder, then all you're really doing by supplementing is making expensive pee.

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I would only say that given our over-processed food diet and the poor eating habits of many, vitamins are probably somewhat useful. Whether mega-doses of them are good for disease prevention is another matter. Personally I believe that if we ate a more plant based diet with crops raised in more organic type soils (i.e. natural compost and manures) with less artificial fertilizers and pesticides we would all be healthier because we would be getting minerals that the plants have processed from the soil, and healthier plants will produce more of the natural vitamins, antioxidants and other beneficial chemicals the body needs.

You have to be careful also because some vitamins, like Vitamin A, are toxic at high doses, so gulping handfuls of pills is not necessarily a good idea.

So far, Vitamin D3 seems to be one of the most useful in disease prevention, but do your own research.

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I was always given to understand that Vitamins weren't that effective when taken orally,but more effective by Injection or intravenously under medical supervision of course.

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