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Will the Antichrist be from Europe?

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I recently finished a book by Joel Richardson on the topic and the proofs he puts forward are astounding. They fly completely in the face of accepted doctrine from the past 100 years or so. Please allow this to be a civil discussion - no bashing intended or allowed. Those interested in eschatology can discuss this earnestly without such behavior.

The accepted interpretation of the origin of the AC has been that he will lead a ten nation confederation based in Rome but Richardson's work disputes this carefully and I'm having trouble finding holes in his reasoning. Help if you can.

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What is the name of this book if you dont mind?

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What is the name of this book if you dont mind?

MIDEAST BEAST: The scriptural case for an Islamic Antichrist

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Hmm, seems interesting. I'll have to read it.

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Hmm, seems interesting. I'll have to read it.

I have been interested in eschatology for many years and this work of his is very controversial. It makes a lot of sense and is very logical but it has many detractors who stick to tradition. It's an eye opener for sure.

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I recently finished a book by Joel Richardson on the topic and the proofs he puts forward are astounding.

What kind of proofs does he put forward? Scriptures and his interpretation of them? Book of Revelation?

They fly completely in the face of accepted doctrine from the past 100 years or so. Please allow this to be a civil discussion - no bashing intended or allowed. Those interested in eschatology can discuss this earnestly without such behavior.

The accepted interpretation of the origin of the AC has been that he will lead a ten nation confederation based in Rome but Richardson's work disputes this carefully and I'm having trouble finding holes in his reasoning. Help if you can.

Didn't you just write that his proofs fly in the face of doctrine? Then how can it be so hard to find holes?

I'd find it easy to beleive that the AC will be European, but just as easy to believe he will be Middle Eastern. Isn't he supposed to unite most of the worlds nations and try to unite all religions? He could come from just about any background.

I believe that the AntiChrist is mentioned only in the New Testiment and he is called the False Prophet, in the Book of Revelations.

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and then,

Please take no offense at my comments, friend. But I question the motives of such 'theological' writings in the sense that it seems to me that it fits a well established niche that targets neo-Conservative Evangelical Christians. Indeed, I see it as a form of western propaganda that is essentially nothing more than fear-mongering. Why must we always paint Muslims as the proverbial 'bad guy'? For me, I see the radical rise of secular humanism as being the bigger threat...to people of all religions, Muslims included. I see someone like a...certain president of a certain country...as more fitting of the pattern as a TYPE of the Anti-Christ. Or a Hitler or a Stalin. Worship of the state. Worship of humanity and supposed human progress. I feel that is the real area of concern.

I noted that you study eschatology; to that I must ask...have you ever studied Islamic eschatology? If you haven't I highly recommend it....because you will find it eerily similar to Christian eschatology, even to the point where they believe Jesus Christ will literally return to earth and lead the elect in a final battle against the forces of Satan.

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My memory might be fuzzy, but shouldn't the anti-Christ appear to be like Christ so more then likely a Jew?

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I thought he was from the Bible.

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Matthew 24:36

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

Revelation 3:11

I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

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To add to that: Matthew 16:28; "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Must be a two thousand year old disciple out there.

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Well, when the Jewish and early Christian writers were speculating about the Apocalypse, they'd have been thinking about the world that they knew, wouldn't they, so of course they'd assume that he'd come from that part of the world, so the choice would pretty much be either Middle Eastern or those parts of Europe (i.e. Greece and Rome) that they'd have regular contact with. They wouldn't be likely to speculate that the Antichrist would come from America or China, since they'd have no idea that those places existed.

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When Monks from the middle ages were being killed (for fun), or kidnapped (for there literacy) by Vikings, the "End Times" was considered to be then.

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and then,

Please take no offense at my comments, friend. But I question the motives of such 'theological' writings in the sense that it seems to me that it fits a well established niche that targets neo-Conservative Evangelical Christians. Indeed, I see it as a form of western propaganda that is essentially nothing more than fear-mongering. Why must we always paint Muslims as the proverbial 'bad guy'? For me, I see the radical rise of secular humanism as being the bigger threat...to people of all religions, Muslims included. I see someone like a...certain president of a certain country...as more fitting of the pattern as a TYPE of the Anti-Christ. Or a Hitler or a Stalin. Worship of the state. Worship of humanity and supposed human progress. I feel that is the real area of concern.

I noted that you study eschatology; to that I must ask...have you ever studied Islamic eschatology? If you haven't I highly recommend it....because you will find it eerily similar to Christian eschatology, even to the point where they believe Jesus Christ will literally return to earth and lead the elect in a final battle against the forces of Satan.

Actually you should really read Richardson's book. He is far from being a hater. He is a scholar and sets his case with great precision from books of the old testament and from historical sources of that day. For example, the admonition that the AC will be from the "people" of the prince to come, the one who destroyed the temple, he finds to be a direct description of the Syrians and others who made up the bulk of the Roman Legions who destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD. By that time Roman Legions other than the Praetorian were mostly provincials and he cites a couple of other sources beside Josephus who validate the claim that it was "neighbors" who were used to destroy the Jews.

And I have studied Islamic eschatology to a small extent. Tell me Marcus, what else do they expect Isa to do? Particularly to the crosses and the swine? You see, if you line up a description of Nabih Isa with the false prophet of Christianity it IS in fact eerily similar. You REALLY should read this book.

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To add to that: Matthew 16:28; "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Must be a two thousand year old disciple out there.

The high priest of the Sanhedrin, chief priests, the elders, and the scribes might still be

around too?

Mark 14:62

“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty

One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

caiaphas.jpg

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What kind of proofs does he put forward? Scriptures and his interpretation of them? Book of Revelation?

Didn't you just write that his proofs fly in the face of doctrine? Then how can it be so hard to find holes?

I'd find it easy to beleive that the AC will be European, but just as easy to believe he will be Middle Eastern. Isn't he supposed to unite most of the worlds nations and try to unite all religions? He could come from just about any background.

I believe that the AntiChrist is mentioned only in the New Testiment and he is called the False Prophet, in the Book of Revelations.

The idea that he will "unite" is one of those traditions. Actually he is said to use peace as a means to ensnare. And while the term "antichrist" is only mentioned a couple of times, this person has many other names. Little horn, man of sin, son of perdition, etc, and he comes in the company of an "enforcer" who causes all to worship him. The Islamic Jesus (Isa) is said to fulfill this role for the Mahdi. As Marcus points out, the two are eerily similar. The Jesus of Islam will return to earth and deny he EVER said he was the son of God. He will be the ultimate Muslim. He will actually execute Christians and Jews who do not convert to Islam.

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To add to that: Matthew 16:28; "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Must be a two thousand year old disciple out there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfiguration_of_Jesus

Peter, James and John were the "some of you" and they saw Jesus transfigured with Moses and Elijah, so they did in fact see him "come in his kingdom".

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When Monks from the middle ages were being killed (for fun), or kidnapped (for there literacy) by Vikings, the "End Times" was considered to be then.

My memory might be fuzzy, but shouldn't the anti-Christ appear to be like Christ so more then likely a Jew?

The Islamic version of Jesus (Isa) won't just be "like" Christ. Muslims and many of the supposed flock of the church will accept him AS Christ. He will perform miracles, after all.

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Matthew 24:36

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

Revelation 3:11

I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

I do not see the point of this post. Will you expand?

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The Legion made up of Syrians that was defeated at the start of the revolt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beth_Horon_(66)

The Legions Rome sent in response of the revolt, and some later served in Syria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_V_Macedonica

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_XII_Fulminata

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_XV_Apollinaris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_X_Fretensis

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I do not see the point of this post. Will you expand?

Matthew 24:36

Means nobody knows but God, so end times is speculation at best.

Revelation 3:11

Means to keep the faith so one can earn the "Victors Crown", which is the reward of eternal life.

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Matthew 24:36

Means nobody knows but God, so end times is speculation at best.

Revelation 3:11

Means to keep the faith so one can earn the "Victors Crown", which is the reward of eternal life.

I understand the scriptural references, just not what they have to do with the topic. But I will note your opinion of the thread being a waste of time. No harm, no foul :)

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The Legion made up of Syrians that was defeated at the start of the revolt.

http://en.wikipedia...._Beth_Horon_(66)

The Legions Rome sent in response of the revolt, and some later served in Syria.

http://en.wikipedia....io_V_Macedonica

http://en.wikipedia....o_XII_Fulminata

http://en.wikipedia...._XV_Apollinaris

http://en.wikipedia....gio_X_Fretensis

His explanation by way of references from Josephus and two others who I cannot recall at the moment (audio book) is that the Legions were led by Romans but that the actual majority (by far) of troops were local "provincials" which made up the bulk of the Legions by this time. Rome ruled over a vast territory and it was impossible to man the entire army with only Italian soldiers. Therefore the "people" who destroyed the city and temple were neighbors of the Jews primarily. In fact many were volunteers. There was even a reference to a house fire in a property owned by a Roman general - he exhorted the troops to save his house but they continued with sacking the temple instead.

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http://en.wikipedia....ration_of_Jesus

Peter, James and John were the "some of you" and they saw Jesus transfigured with Moses and Elijah, so they did in fact see him "come in his kingdom".

Jesus and three of his apostles go to a mountain.Then the prophets Moses and Elijah appear next to Jesus.Then called "Son" by a voice in the sky, assumed to be God the Father.

In antiquity the classical planets were the seven non-fixed objects visible in the sky. The classical planets were, therefore, the Sun and Moon and the five planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.

http://en.wikipedia....lassical_planet

Seven....AH AH AH AAAHHH!

CountCountsFlowers.jpg

Edited by davros of skaro

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I understand the scriptural references, just not what they have to do with the topic. But I will note your opinion of the thread being a waste of time. No harm, no foul :)

Man's hour compared to God's hour is a waste of time to you?

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