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Stundie

Joe Rogan V Brian Dunning of Skeptoid Podcast

16 posts in this topic

Sorry I've not been about but I am extremely busy working at the moment.

However, a friend sent me a link to Joe Rogan's podcast. I didn't listen to it straight away cause its 3 hours long, so it wasn't until last night that I got around to listening to it.

Joe Rogan whose a comedian and commentator for the UFC runs a podcast and invites Brian Dunning, a host and producer of the Skeptoid Podcast to talk about conspiracy theories which Brian Dunning thinks that Joe Rogan apparently supports and believes.

It can be watched here on youtube.

or downloaded and streamed from here

http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/brian-dunning

However it soon becomes clear that Brian Dunning is a pseudo skeptic and Joe and Brian Redban expose him numerous times through out the podcast to the point of embarrassment.

One of the most laughable points is that because Joe thinks that the collapse of the WTC7 looks like a controlled demolition, which it does. Brian Dunning assumes that if he thinks that the WTC7 collpase looks like a controlled demolition, then Joe supports conspiracy theories even though he clearly states that he doesn't.

Oh and I have just found this in a google search.......

http://skeptoid.com/blog/2014/02/05/joe-rogan/

Which gives some background as to why Joe invited Brian Dunning on his podcast.

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I think Brian did very well to explain what happened. As he says, he is not a person used to be 'on stage' and so fared badly against Joe Rogan. He explains why he said the things he did in 2008, acknowledges clearly where these have now changed and explains why he still keeps Joe Rogan on the list.

I don't care for Rogan's show and I agree with Brian Dunning - he does give the impression he supports the various conspiracy theories.

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I think Brian did very well to explain what happened. As he says, he is not a person used to be 'on stage' and so fared badly against Joe Rogan. He explains why he said the things he did in 2008, acknowledges clearly where these have now changed and explains why he still keeps Joe Rogan on the list.

I don't care for Rogan's show and I agree with Brian Dunning - he does give the impression he supports the various conspiracy theories.

Agreed. I thought the exchange was a good give and take between the two of them. Joe is a masterful debater, but I agree that he does hide behind the tired old approach of "I'm just asking questions" (which I've recently heard referred to as "JAQing off" - excellent terminology). Joe freely admits during the podcast (which I did listen to in its entirety) that he has been a conspiracist at various points in his life (his thoughts at the time on the moon landings are one of the things that landed him on Brian's list to begin with). Joe also still holds pretty firmly to the Kennedy assassination conspiracy as was demonstrated during the podcast. Brian missed a great opportunity to make the point that the famous "pristine bullet" is, in fact, not that pristine when viewed from angles other than the one most conspiracy sites tend to show. And Joe is a pretty strong proponent of a lot of medical woo on his show as Brian demonstrated.

Frankly I think they make a good team and I'd like to see him do more shows with Joe in the future.

Edited by Rafterman

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I listen to the JRE pretty regularly...it makes for a great listen while driving or cleaning. I agree, Rafter. It wasn't until I listened to this one with Brian D. that I realized Joe really does wear out that argument of "just asking questions". It's a safe position to fall back to when you are at risk of having your argument destroyed. Otherwise, he does a great job of remaining pretty objective and "getting to the bottom of some s***"

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I listen to the JRE pretty regularly...it makes for a great listen while driving or cleaning. I agree, Rafter. It wasn't until I listened to this one with Brian D. that I realized Joe really does wear out that argument of "just asking questions". It's a safe position to fall back to when you are at risk of having your argument destroyed. Otherwise, he does a great job of remaining pretty objective and "getting to the bottom of some s***"

I'm a pretty avid podcast listener and while I enjoy Joe, I can't devote that kind of time for a single podcast. I generally listen to and from work and it took me almost a week to listen to the Dunning episode.

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..you mean *this* Joe Rogan?

po51a38f9f.png

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I am not sure what your point is, posting his tattoos.

Can you elaborate?

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I think Brian did very well to explain what happened. As he says, he is not a person used to be 'on stage' and so fared badly against Joe Rogan. He explains why he said the things he did in 2008, acknowledges clearly where these have now changed and explains why he still keeps Joe Rogan on the list.

I don't care for Rogan's show and I agree with Brian Dunning - he does give the impression he supports the various conspiracy theories.

I don't really listen to Rogan or Dunning but personally, I think Dunning comes off the show looking a little silly.

I am not sure how Rogan gives the impression he supports various conspiracies when he clearly states numerous times in the podcast that he doesn't. I think the problem is that because he isn't black or white on the issue and doesn't abandon the idea or possibility of a conspiracy, is what make you get the impression he supports various conspiracies.

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I listen to the JRE pretty regularly...it makes for a great listen while driving or cleaning. I agree, Rafter. It wasn't until I listened to this one with Brian D. that I realized Joe really does wear out that argument of "just asking questions". It's a safe position to fall back to when you are at risk of having your argument destroyed. Otherwise, he does a great job of remaining pretty objective and "getting to the bottom of some s***"

I think Rogan makes his position clear though out the podcast and I am not sure how just asking questions is a safe position when there was never any risk to any of his arguments being destroyed by Dunning in the podcast.

Personally, I think Rogan did a demolition job on Dunning.

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Posted (edited)

All I’ve come away learning from this debate is that Mr. Dunning is an extremely bad listener. I find is the case with most of the psuedo skeptics myself.

At first it made me uncomfortable to watch him, then I just started feeling very sorry for him as he was constantly getting battered about by Joe as he consistently owned this guy throughout the podcast. Dunning back pedals, talks in circles, contradicts himself time and time again, and gets noticeably agitated when his ideas or stance is challenged. It seems as if everything he referenced in his mind was already obvious and self-evident. Whenever Joe and Redban challenged him by actually researching on the spot, he re-worded his stance and talked himself into a corner.

An example of this is Dunnings resistance to any “conspiracy theory.” He says that we should trust the government when they come out with a statement, but then back peddles a moment later and says that the government is known for lying so he wasn’t surprised when it was confirmed that they were spying. Joe pointed out several occasions when the government has abused trust and Dunning moved the goal posts and say those weren’t conspiracy theories because “Anyone could have seen that coming.”

I love the bit where Joe has him on the ropes and calls him out for his generalisation and he admits that generalisation is wrong. Then moments later, he tries to make another generalisation about people in “failure analysis” in which he pauses because he realises that he is about to put his foot in his mouth yet again. I spat my drink out laughing.....lol

Much later on Joe points out that Dr Mark Gordon (A previous guest apparently!) is explaining how taking something such as a 1000mg of Vitamin C liposomally, it increases the absorption rate from 19% to about 93%, as opposed to taking it orally.

Dunning retorts “But your body doesn't have any use for 93% of 1000mg of Vitamin C”

Joe corrects him again because Dr Gordon never said that you needed that amount, then Dunning goes on and states “Do you think he was implying that it's better to have....” before Joe cut him off to corrected him. And then Dunning goes on and says....”How is it better? If it's going to give you more than you can use.” Joe corrects him yet again.....lol

That whole part towards the end was just really really sad, especially when everyone else could see that the point was the absorption percentage and that the dose was used as an example. Dunnings point of contention was that you do not need 1000mg even though Dr Mark never said you did. Then he keeps repeating it even though Joe plays the clip again. The 1000mg he uses is a figure used as an example, a concept that Dunning fails to get his head around for about 20 minutes of the podcast. Joe points out that Dunning has a clear desire to be right, even though he is wrong.

Later on again, Dunning makes an embarrassingly incorrect and false statement about the basic functions of human digestion. He says “The reason you poop and pee is because you ate more than you needed”.......lol :blink:

Joe called him out on his fundamental misunderstanding of "pooping and peeing" to which Dunning says that "You're taking my words too literally!"

Hilarious!! Peronsally I think this dude needs to check his ego.

And the same friend who sent me this link, has sent me another one of Joe Rogan's podcast with Dr Rhona Patrick who holds a Ph.D in Biomedical Science and she absolutely ****s on Brian Dunning in the last 30 minute of this podcast.

And it turns out that Brian Dunning is a fraudster too. No wonder he doesn't appear to be trustworthy.....lol

http://en.wikipedia....Dunning_(author)

In August 2008, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay">eBay filed suit against Dunning and his brother, accusing them of defrauding eBay and eBay affiliates of $5.2 million in acookie stuffing scheme for their company, Kessler's Flying Circus. In June 2010, based on the same allegations and following an investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, a grand jury indicted Dunning on charges of wire fraud. On his Skeptoid blog, Dunning stated "There are several legal reasons that the lawsuit is improper, and we’ve been fighting it on that basis."[22] On April 15, 2013, in San Jose, CA federal court, as part of a plea agreement, Dunning pleaded guilty to wire fraud. Dunning admitted that he received payments to which he was not entitled, but has "reserved the right to dispute how much of those payments were attributable to the cookie stuffing scheme".

More about it on here....

http://www.bolenreport.com/skeptics/Skeptics2/top%20skeptic%20indicted%20for%20fraud.htm

Edited by Stundie

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I don't really listen to Rogan or Dunning but personally, I think Dunning comes off the show looking a little silly.

I am not sure how Rogan gives the impression he supports various conspiracies when he clearly states numerous times in the podcast that he doesn't. I think the problem is that because he isn't black or white on the issue and doesn't abandon the idea or possibility of a conspiracy, is what make you get the impression he supports various conspiracies.

And I think Mr. Dunning would concede your first point - which he did.

How does Rogan give the impression he supports various conspiracies - because he specifically said he did. That's an undeniable fact that he admits and while he has since changed his position, the podcast in question where Mr. Dunning listed him among the most pseudoscience supporting celebrities was from 2008.

And, yes, Mr. Dunning has had his legal issues in recent years, but he has also spent the better part of a decade amassing a significant volume of pro-science, skeptical work through his multi-award winning Skeptoid podcast.

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And I think Mr. Dunning would concede your first point - which he did.

I think he spent the entire podcast conceding points.

Although he didn't concede the part he was clearly wrong about Dr Gordon. Trying to accuse him of using false science when he is the one making false claims, even after they played the audio, highlights a lack of listening skills and critical thinking from Dunning to the point where he comes across as untrustworthy.

Which is quite sad for someone who claims to be a skeptic.

How does Rogan give the impression he supports various conspiracies - because he specifically said he did. That's an undeniable fact that he admits and while he has since changed his position, the podcast in question where Mr. Dunning listed him among the most pseudoscience supporting celebrities was from 2008.
But as he points out, the issues in regards to these conspiracies aren't always black and white.

He's clearly states that he is not an expert and around the 2:07:00 Dunning says that Joe should check the facts even though he has just made an erroneous claim about Dr Gordon.

Reading Dunnings entry for Joe, it is riddled with blatantly false information as pointed out on the podcast. With the exception of the fake moon landings which Joe used to believe in, I don't think he got a single point right.

And, yes, Mr. Dunning has had his legal issues in recent years, but he has also spent the better part of a decade amassing a significant volume of pro-science, skeptical work through his multi-award winning Skeptoid podcast.

I don't think that Dr Rhona Patrick would agree with the pro-science part.

I think the fraud case highlights a seriously untrustworthy individual and I think Joe Rogan did a great job of exposing him.

His podcast may have won awards and he may have lots of followers, but I don't think I'll be following seeing as I see a pseudoskeptic and not a true skeptic in Brian Dunning.

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The absolute humiliation of Brian Dunning is almost painful to watch but it's good to see these psuedo skeptics exposed.

Anyone who has watched this podcast should go to Rogan's forum and check out the thread dedicated to this show. While Joe is rather soft on Dunning, his forum members break down and destroy his arguments completely.

Dunning's skeptoid website is also rather embarrassing, with an assembled crew of simpletons who seem to lack even a basic concept of logic arguing against "conspiracy theories". Check out Mike Rothschild's latest blog where he actually states that a secret military operation is not a conspiracy.

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The absolute humiliation of Brian Dunning is almost painful to watch but it's good to see these psuedo skeptics exposed.

Anyone who has watched this podcast should go to Rogan's forum and check out the thread dedicated to this show. While Joe is rather soft on Dunning, his forum members break down and destroy his arguments completely.

Dunning's skeptoid website is also rather embarrassing, with an assembled crew of simpletons who seem to lack even a basic concept of logic arguing against "conspiracy theories". Check out Mike Rothschild's latest blog where he actually states that a secret military operation is not a conspiracy.

Do you have a link to the forum??

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