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Divinity of Christ


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The belief that ritual Blood sacrifice makes an unseen, and unprovable deity happy enough to overlook transgressions is for the superstitious.

Leviticus 17:11

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an

atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Exodus 12:23

For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the

lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the

destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

John 6:53

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of

man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 19:34

But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and

water.

Acts 20:28

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath

made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Romans 3:25

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his

righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Ephesians 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches

of his grace;

Colossians 1:14

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hebrews 9:12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy

place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Hebrews 9:22

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no

remission.

1 Peter 1:2

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit,

unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be

multiplied.

1 Peter 1:19

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1 John 1:7

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the

blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Isaiah 53:5

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement

of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

[media=]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_reform

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Blood sacrifice was not to please god, but to please justice. With Christ's sacrifice, mercy was given a foot hold and blood sacrifice was no longer needed. Even the Jews stopped the practice shortly after his death.

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Blood sacrifice was not to please god, but to please justice. With Christ's sacrifice, mercy was given a foot hold and blood sacrifice was no longer needed. Even the Jews stopped the practice shortly after his death.

This is just another lie promoted by the New Testament. It had ended centuries before during the time of the prophet Micah. Did a Nun tell you this before she slapped your wrists with a ruler? Just asking...

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Blood sacrifice was not to please god, but to please justice. With Christ's sacrifice, mercy was given a foot hold and blood sacrifice was no longer needed.

Welcome to the 21st century for if you ever get here?

Even the Jews stopped the practice shortly after his death.

There are minority sects of Christians, and Jews that still slit the throats of Lambs so they bleed out.Then they burn the fat, blood, and entrails on altars.The Lord forbids the consumption of blood, and the smoke is an aroma pleasing to him (Leviticus.)

There are Jews that want to restart the Temple sacrifice ritual, but the Dome of the Rock is in the way.

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This is just another lie promoted by the New Testament. It had ended centuries before during the time of the prophet Micah. Did a Nun tell you this before she slapped your wrists with a ruler? Just asking...

Can you prove that statement with historical facts and archaeology? Just asking, because it somehow rings false, seeing as the 2nd Temple clearly practiced sacrifice of animals until it was destroyed in 70 C.E. or maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean by: It had ended centuries before during the time of the prophet Micah.

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This is just another lie promoted by the New Testament. It had ended centuries before during the time of the prophet Micah. Did a Nun tell you this before she slapped your wrists with a ruler? Just asking...

Then what were all the sheep on temple grounds were for. You know when Christ flipped over tables.

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Then what were all the sheep on temple grounds were for. You know when Christ flipped over tables.

The Temple complex covered about 35 acres. During Passover there would have been thousands of people there, including several hundred guards. Do you really think Jesus "purified" the temple? Maybe he knocked over a few tables before they dragged him off, but that was about it. A purely forgettable incident.

Doug

Edited by Doug1029
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Can you prove that statement with historical facts and archaeology?

Jor-el has discovered a very convenient trick: challenge the other guy to prove his contentions. This hides the fact that Jor-el can't prove his own.

Doug

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Jor-el has discovered a very convenient trick: challenge the other guy to prove his contentions. This hides the fact that Jor-el can't prove his own.

Doug

Incorrect, Archaeology actually does demonstrate that sacrifice was part of the 2nd Temple rites...

On this basis, he says, one can “reconstruct” the placement of the laver (a large basin) that was used by the priests for their ritual washing, with the water being drawn by a waterwheel mechanism from the cistern. After this purification, the priests ascended the nearby ramp to the sacrificial altar.

http://www.huji.ac.i...091874232688760

Please consider also that Josephus has absolutely no problems describing in detail these events.

http://www.archpark....riod_id=1&id=33#

I'm starting to wonder if you seem to have a problem here.... the tone of your post is not exactly conducive to thinking that you are being objective. Some things are subject to speculation this however is not one of those things.

Edited by Jor-el
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Double post....

Edited by Jor-el
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I'm starting to wonder if you seem to have a problem here.... the tone of your post is not exactly conducive to thinking that you are being objective. Some things are subject to speculation this however is not one of those things.

It was a generalization. I wasn't talking specifically about ritual sacrifice. Perhaps I should have been clearer on that.

Just one question here: Daniel was saying that ritual sacrifice was practiced by the Jews in Jesus' day. You sounded as if you were objecting to that statement with your demand for proof. Did I misunderstand something here? Maybe I'm not the only one who needs to be clearer.

Another thought: be REAL careful about what you call "proof." There is nearly always an exception and there goes your "proof."

Doug

Edited by Doug1029
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It was a generalization. I wasn't talking specifically about ritual sacrifice. Perhaps I should have been clearer on that.

Just one question here: Daniel was saying that ritual sacrifice was practiced by the Jews in Jesus' day. You sounded as if you were objecting to that statement with your demand for proof. Did I misunderstand something here? Maybe I'm not the only one who needs to be clearer.

Another thought: be REAL careful about what you call "proof." There is nearly always an exception and there goes your "proof."

Doug

I was agreeing with Daniel and disagreeing with Gideon Mage, whom I was answering in my initial response. Also I need to point out that it is not "Ritual Sacrifice" but "Blood Sacrifice" we are talking about. In other words we are talking of animal sacrifice, something that history demonstrates ended with the 2nd Temple.

As I said, some things are subject to speculation this however is not one of those things.

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I was agreeing with Daniel and disagreeing with Gideon Mage, whom I was answering in my initial response.

I misunderstood.

Also I need to point out that it is not "Ritual Sacrifice" but "Blood Sacrifice" we are talking about. In other words we are talking of animal sacrifice, something that history demonstrates ended with the 2nd Temple.

I hear the sound of a hair splitting. The priests had to eat. What do you think was the purpose of animal sacrifice?

Doug

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I misunderstood.

It happens... :)

I hear the sound of a hair splitting. The priests had to eat. What do you think was the purpose of animal sacrifice?

Doug

The purpose of animal sacrifice was, as Josephus put it...

These sacrifices were of two sort; of those sorts one was offered for private persons, and other for the people in general; and they are done in two different ways. In the one case, what is killed is burned, as a whole burnt offering, thus that name is given to it; but the other is a thank offering, and is designed for feasting those that sacrifice. I will speak of the former. Suppose a private man offer a burnt offering, he must slay either a bull, a lamb, or a kid of the goats, and the two latter of the first year, though of bulls he is permitted to sacrifice those of a greater age; but all burnt offerings are to be of males. When they are killed, the priests sprinkle the blood around the altar; they then cleanse the bodies, and divide them into parts, and salt them with salt, and lay them upon the altar, while the pieces of wood are piled one upon another, and the fire is burning; hey next cleanse the feet of the sacrifices, and the inner parts, in an accurate manner and so lay them next to the rest to be purged by the fire, while the priests receive the hides. This is the way of offering a burnt offering. But those that offer thank offerings do indeed sacrifice the same creatures, but such as are unblemished, and above a year old; however, they may take either males or females. They also sprinkle the altar with their blood; but they lay upon the altar the kidneys and the caul, and all the fat, and the lobe of the liver, together with the rump of the lamb; then, giving the breast and right shoulder to the priests, the offerers feast upon the remainder of the flesh for two days; and what remain they burn.

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Ritual animal sacrifice is the perfect con to separate a portion of someone else's hard work to a class that does not work (compared to the conned class.)

The sacrifice included grains, oils, spices, and such as well which the Priest class received a portion.

This invisible deity will not bless your crops, and livestock if you do not provide thanks in the form of smoke.The smoke dissipates into the world of the invisible deity that made it possible for you to eat.

This has been going on in one form or another for 1,000's of years.Last I checked Gobleki Tepe temple complex has no signs of agriculture.This means people brought food there.The complex was buried on purpose, and I wonder why.

The Temple in Judea forbade anyone even with part of an ear missing to go near it.

Do not question, do as you are told, and receive a great fantastic reward that is full of Man's basic desires.Most of all pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

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Ritual animal sacrifice is the perfect con to separate a portion of someone else's hard work to a class that does not work (compared to the conned class.)

The sacrifice included grains, oils, spices, and such as well which the Priest class received a portion.

This invisible deity will not bless your crops, and livestock if you do not provide thanks in the form of smoke.The smoke dissipates into the world of the invisible deity that made it possible for you to eat.

This has been going on in one form or another for 1,000's of years.Last I checked Gobleki Tepe temple complex has no signs of agriculture.This means people brought food there.The complex was buried on purpose, and I wonder why.

The Temple in Judea forbade anyone even with part of an ear missing to go near it.

Do not question, do as you are told, and receive a great fantastic reward that is full of Man's basic desires.Most of all pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Religions don't work like that. If they did, they did they wouldn't work :innocent:

From earliest times priest castes and individual shamans etc have been more than willingly supported by the general populace because eof the perception of their incredibly important roles in people's lives beliefs and community. How do you think buildings like stonehenge were built? Tthey were communal and mutual efforts of labour and time Priests had very significant obligations and responsibilities and were held accountable for the success and failures in peoples lives and in the economy, hunting, health etc Every earl human being knew that the world was inhabited by all sorts of spirits and these had to be communicated with and propitiated for life to be safe and successful. You couldn't make beer or even bricks unless the spirits helped you Your crops would wither if the spirits were against you. and you certainly would not have a good hunt if the animal spirits and nature gods were angry with you. The people demanded this role of their priests /shamans etc not the other way around You had to display certain abilities and skills to become a shaman and even a jewish priest had to live, act, and believe totally, in his role every minute of his life They weren't p***ing about, making a lazy living for them selves. They were providing probably the most essential service in any community where the spiritual is more important to life than the physical. Active intercession between man and gods, spirits, and the environment .

There was no man or wizard behind the curtain The priests weren't playing the populace. They believed just as strongly as the rest of the people perhaps more so because of their daily lives. When a priest went into the inner sanctum he had a rope attached to his leg This was so he could be pulled out if he dropped dead while in there because the priests believed that if an unsanctified or unprepared man entered the inner sanctuary they would be struck dead

.All members of those societies were involved and equally willing participants in this belief structure. They didn't have the advantage of your knowledge and education in order to form divergent views. And why or how could they chose/learn to disbelieve in forces, which were so obvious and omnipresent to them?

Edited by Mr Walker
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Ritual animal sacrifice is the perfect con to separate a portion of someone else's hard work to a class that does not work (compared to the conned class.)

The sacrifice included grains, oils, spices, and such as well which the Priest class received a portion.

This invisible deity will not bless your crops, and livestock if you do not provide thanks in the form of smoke.The smoke dissipates into the world of the invisible deity that made it possible for you to eat.

This has been going on in one form or another for 1,000's of years.Last I checked Gobleki Tepe temple complex has no signs of agriculture.This means people brought food there.The complex was buried on purpose, and I wonder why.

The Temple in Judea forbade anyone even with part of an ear missing to go near it.

Do not question, do as you are told, and receive a great fantastic reward that is full of Man's basic desires.Most of all pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

I would call that a sad and unfortunate perspective of the human condition, but rather than limit this to religion I personally would expand it to include all areas of human endeavor....

Politics why does it exist and what is used for?

Science, why does it exist and what is it used for?

Society, why does it exist and what is it used for?

Civilization, why does it exist and what is it used for?

The simplistic answer falls into the category you wrote about... control.

So why do you limit it to religion?

All these things have two sides to the same coin, depending on how you "want" to look at them...

Edited by Jor-el
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I would call that a sad and unfortunate perspective of the human condition, but rather than limit this to religion I personally would expand it to include all areas of human endeavor....

Politics why does it exist and what is used for? Regulation of society. Yes, I suppose this could be viewed as control,but it serves a necessary purpose. Anarchism leads to nothing but chaos.

Science, why does it exist and what is it used for? We are naturally curious creatures. Science is the methodology we have developed that best helps us explain the world around us.

Society, why does it exist and what is it used for? Social creatures live in groups, we call these groups societies this kind of goes along with the next question about civilization. Civilization is how our social groups develop as we use science to improve our way of life, establish rules and moral codes, and decide that living together in groups and exchanging ideas, services, and goods with each other is a way to improve quality of life.

Civilization, why does it exist and what is it used for?

The simplistic answer falls into the category you wrote about... control.

So why do you limit it to religion?

All these things have two sides to the same coin, depending on how you "want" to look at them...

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Politics why does it exist and what is used for? Regulation of society. Yes, I suppose this could be viewed as control, but it serves a necessary purpose. Anarchism leads to nothing but chaos.

Science, why does it exist and what is it used for? We are naturally curious creatures. Science is the methodology we have developed that best helps us explain the world around us.

Society, why does it exist and what is it used for? Social creatures live in groups, we call these groups societies this kind of goes along with the next question about civilization. Civilization is how our social groups develop as we use science to improve our way of life, establish rules and moral codes, and decide that living together in groups and exchanging ideas, services, and goods with each other is a way to improve quality of life.

And religion serves a necessary purpose as well for most of humanity. The priesthood serves a necessary purpose as the servants of religion. Yet... what do we see here on this board? That religion serves to control and the priesthood serves itself. That those who are religious are by definition either nutty in one way or another or they are simply sheep who cannot think for themselves... I suggest that Politics does all this as well, and is even more used than religion. Society is controlled to the utmost by an elite we allowed to take the reigns of power, whether by politics or finance, (they go hand in hand).

Science is used for control, most scientific discoveries and applications have come about directly due to war and military applications and as we know, war is simply another form of politics, that serves to impose control on a population.

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Religions don't work like that. If they did, they did they wouldn't work :innocent:

From earliest times priest castes and individual shamans etc have been more than willingly supported by the general populace because eof the perception of their incredibly important roles in people's lives beliefs and community. How do you think buildings like stonehenge were built? Tthey were communal and mutual efforts of labour and time Priests had very significant obligations and responsibilities and were held accountable for the success and failures in peoples lives and in the economy, hunting, health etc Every earl human being knew that the world was inhabited by all sorts of spirits and these had to be communicated with and propitiated for life to be safe and successful. You couldn't make beer or even bricks unless the spirits helped you Your crops would wither if the spirits were against you. and you certainly would not have a good hunt if the animal spirits and nature gods were angry with you. The people demanded this role of their priests /shamans etc not the other way around You had to display certain abilities and skills to become a shaman and even a jewish priest had to live, act, and believe totally, in his role every minute of his life They weren't p***ing about, making a lazy living for them selves. They were providing probably the most essential service in any community where the spiritual is more important to life than the physical. Active intercession between man and gods, spirits, and the environment .

There was no man or wizard behind the curtain The priests weren't playing the populace. They believed just as strongly as the rest of the people perhaps more so because of their daily lives. When a priest went into the inner sanctum he had a rope attached to his leg This was so he could be pulled out if he dropped dead while in there because the priests believed that if an unsanctified or unprepared man entered the inner sanctuary they would be struck dead

.All members of those societies were involved and equally willing participants in this belief structure. They didn't have the advantage of your knowledge and education in order to form divergent views. And why or how could they chose/learn to disbelieve in forces, which were so obvious and omnipresent to them?

So ignore the man behind the curtain....Got it.

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I would call that a sad and unfortunate perspective of the human condition, but rather than limit this to religion I personally would expand it to include all areas of human endeavor....

Politics why does it exist and what is used for?

Science, why does it exist and what is it used for?

Society, why does it exist and what is it used for?

Civilization, why does it exist and what is it used for?

The simplistic answer falls into the category you wrote about... control.

So why do you limit it to religion?

All these things have two sides to the same coin, depending on how you "want" to look at them...

I cannot help that you believe the creator of the universe requires shedding of Blood.

Since people no longer believe that the stars are a God's ejaculate, or a Goddesses breast milk means there is still hope.

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So ignore the man behind the curtain....Got it.

Rather, there are men behind every conceivable curtain.... you can't escape them even if you dig a hole and cover it up behind you...., because you take them with you everywhere.

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I cannot help that you believe the creator of the universe requires shedding of Blood.

Since people no longer believe that the stars are a God's ejaculate, or a Goddesses breast milk means there is still hope.

I cannot help that you believe that the creator is a figment of our imagination.

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God isn't the man behind the curtain, Lucifer is. God is standing behind you ready to help if you ask and need him.

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I cannot help that you believe that the creator is a figment of our imagination.

I cannot help that you cannot provide evidence that a creator of the universe is the one you believe in.

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