Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Beany

Spirit vs Flesh

33 posts in this topic

I heard a radio show this afternoon that talked about the constant, 24/7 battle between the flesh and spirit, with the flesh playing the usual villain role. I'm wondering about this idea, if it has to be so, if we just perceive it as so, if we've heard it so often we've come to believe it's true without examination. Seems to me that being given both a body and spirit that the two are meant to naturally work together and not in opposition; that each can perhaps enhance the other and work cooperatively instead of being at war. Anyone have any thoughts on this or a different perception?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard a radio show this afternoon that talked about the constant, 24/7 battle between the flesh and spirit, with the flesh playing the usual villain role. I'm wondering about this idea, if it has to be so, if we just perceive it as so, if we've heard it so often we've come to believe it's true without examination. Seems to me that being given both a body and spirit that the two are meant to naturally work together and not in opposition; that each can perhaps enhance the other and work cooperatively instead of being at war. Anyone have any thoughts on this or a different perception?

The flesh is irrelevant. It doesnt really compel us to any behaviour, for example.

It is our mind which does this.

So really the battle is betwen positive and negative mental choices. and mental drivers.

I agree with your pov. Our mind and body are meant to work as one, in harmony. We do harm to ourselves, when the mind is in conflict with itself. We also do harm to ourselves when we make choices which harm our body.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that "the flesh" refers to our tendency toward self-indulgence rather than just our physical body. Without self-control, it's easy to overeat, experience road rage, or overdo some other habit that can injurious to self and others.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. I see "the flesh" as being animal instinct, while the spirit being higher thought . It's not all bad, sometimes the spirit needs to listen to the flesh and the flesh to the spirit.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our bodies are still in the ice-age - we have very strong drives imprinted into us from learning to survive in that time. There is a constant battle between our evolved brains and our ancient bodies.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I heard a radio show this afternoon that talked about the constant, 24/7 battle between the flesh and spirit, with the flesh playing the usual villain role.

It's a theory among many, and it's not something I can completely cling to. It assumes that the soul is intrinscally "good" or perfect, but my faith (beliefs and first-hand knowledge) tells me otherwise. I have come to accept that the goal is to be lifted out of this world while one's earthly body will be left behind in the end. Therefore, the battle is within one's soul. One chooses to be saved. Choice is always the key in every thing. The flesh is a mere catalyst. It diverts one's "awareness" by thinking that "things" are permanent, oh-so-important, etc. Addiction is a great example. More often than not, it takes God's grace to see through the veils of one's delusions. Addiction to world is very strong because it's constantly reinforced. And yes, the flesh is but a part of the material world. It is neither good nor bad. Since I'm a Christian, it's how I see and use it through the filters of my faith. Mind you, I'm not perfect. I know too well that it takes a great deal to follow Christ's teachings.

Thank God for these verses: "...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,i through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith..." Romans 3:23-25

Edited by No-thingBornPassion
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

body mind spirit

balance that and thrive

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't the body/flesh serve as a vehicle of expression for the spirit? Isn't it the body that allows us to commit acts of kindness, to hug someone who needs comfort, our hands that carry the food that brings sustenance? Our voices that allow us to express our thoughts and ideas of the divine, our minds and hands that allow us to commit our inspirations to pen & paper, to plant the seeds and harvest the crops? To bind a broken arm or deliver those shots of insulin or vaccines or other life-saving medicines? Hey, I think I'm on a roll here. Sure, our bodies will eventually die, but until then, is it possibly a manifestation of the sacred?

Me, I'm holding on to this body as long as possible, it lets me hear, taste, feel, smell, touch, without all of that, would our sense or experience of the divine be diminished? It's my belief that life on this planet is one of the greatest gifts we have been given, and part of that great gift is having a physical body. Surely we are to do more with it than mortify the flesh either literally or physically? Can't one glory in the physicality of existence and at the same time maintain balance between the physical and non-physical? I'm just trying to see this in a way that's different from what I've been taught culturally taught, that flesh is inherently corrupt, which then puts it at odds with the spiritual/metaphysical. I glory in all of it, the whole ball of wax.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't the body/flesh serve as a vehicle of expression for the spirit?

Sure, our bodies will eventually die, but until then, is it possibly a manifestation of the sacred?

That's exactly my point. The flesh is neither good nor bad. Choice is always the key in everything we do. Choice comes from our soul or "awareness." Even developmentally disabled people make choices.

Is the flesh inherently corrupt? If corrupt means evil, then I don't agree. I believe it's been misunderstood or misinterpreted. Regardless, I don't buy into it. I find the flesh equals evil phony and absurd. Our body will eventually die, I agree, but corrupt?? God also has the power to make one's body incorruptible, or so it seems -- what do I know. What I do know is that a "miracle" called regeneration of the flesh after resurrection is possible...absolutely!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We receive our body when we are born, we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. The spirit is not in us by default - it is received when we receive Christ. Acts 2:38, 38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 1:13-14, 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

The Holy Spirit is what you want to follow, not the flesh or body (which includes your mind or brain). Your flesh is inherently bad, evil - by default we are sinners and bad people. Galatians 5:16-17 16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. Romans 8:5, "Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires."

When you accept Christ and begin to follow the Holy Spirit, not the flesh, you will then find true joy, happiness, and in the end claim your inheritance (i.e., Heaven). If you don't believe me, try it out for yourself...won't hurt. Give it a week and see what happens.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone is bashing on the body, come on now, guys!

The spirit and body have a symbiotic relationship. Without the body, the spirit has very limited means to interact with the world.

Without the spirit, the body is nothing but an empty vessel.

The body is a wonderful machine, when it's treated right it can allow us to do so many wonderful things (look at athletes, musicians, etc.)

The spirit and body need each other in order to get the full experience out of life. The body is not a hinderance to the spirit; it's a tool, to be used to its full potential.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

We receive our body when we are born, we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. The spirit is not in us by default - it is received when we receive Christ. Acts 2:38, 38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 1:13-14, 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

The Holy Spirit is what you want to follow, not the flesh or body (which includes your mind or brain). Your flesh is inherently bad, evil - by default we are sinners and bad people. Galatians 5:16-17 16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. Romans 8:5, "Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires."

When you accept Christ and begin to follow the Holy Spirit, not the flesh, you will then find true joy, happiness, and in the end claim your inheritance (i.e., Heaven). If you don't believe me, try it out for yourself...won't hurt. Give it a week and see what happens.

What makes you believe I haven't tried it? I have, but there were too many people telling me what I should believe and not allowing me the time or space to do my own thinking and reach my own conclusions. I guess I just don't institutionalize well. The holy spirit lives in our bodies, when we die we may be left only with spirit, but until then, can't the body & spirit work together for a divine purpose, the body being the vehicle for physical manifestations or expressions of the spirit? I'm a woman, I've carried and nurtured life in my body, and only with a body could I do that. That alone makes the body as sacred for me as spirit, and it's something that spirit cannot do by itself.

Edited by Beany
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everything is permissible, but not everything is recommended. This is what it's about, and ones discernment process needs to temper the flesh to do the will of the spirit. Paul himself struggled with it, you know, one of the apostles of Jesus Christ.

It's entirely due to our fallen state, we some how got out of "sinc" genetically, psychologically, spiritually, and it was passed on from the generation to generation in tact. Our original form, in question these days between alien creation, and God given, one must take into account, how then are aliens formed that formed us, chicken and egg type of thing.

It's a given, we are imperfect, in all ways, but what is good, we should nurture, and that is ones heart and mind. Once we finally get those together, the flesh will follow.

Hope this helps.

I get what you're saying, but disagree with the "fallen state." Or maybe we were meant to "fall" so that we can rediscover ourselves and the divine with full consciousness, going back to the garden with experiences & knowledge that allow us to appreciate it and see it for the gift it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone is bashing on the body, come on now, guys!

Without the spirit, the body is nothing but an empty vessel.

The spirit and body need each other in order to get the full experience out of life.

Don't put me on that "everyone" list. The body is an empty vessel without the spirit... And yes, one needs the flesh to get the full expereience of this world: painful, pleasurable, sensuous, horrific, sublime, and so on.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We receive our body when we are born, we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. The spirit is not in us by default - it is received when we receive Christ. Acts 2:38, 38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 1:13-14, 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

The Holy Spirit is what you want to follow, not the flesh or body (which includes your mind or brain). Your flesh is inherently bad, evil - by default we are sinners and bad people. Galatians 5:16-17 16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. Romans 8:5, "Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires."

When you accept Christ and begin to follow the Holy Spirit, not the flesh, you will then find true joy, happiness, and in the end claim your inheritance (i.e., Heaven). If you don't believe me, try it out for yourself...won't hurt. Give it a week and see what happens.

What happened to Genesis 1:28: "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply..."

"How beautiful and pleasant you are, O loved one, with all your delights! Your stature is like a palm tree, and your breasts are like its clusters. I say I will climb the palm tree and lay hold of its fruit. Oh may your breasts be like clusters of the vine, and the scent of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine. It goes down smoothly for my beloved, gliding over lips and teeth. I am my beloved's, and his desire is for me." Song of Solomon 7:6-12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't put me on that "everyone" list. The body is an empty vessel without the spirit... And yes, one needs the flesh to get the full expereience of this world: painful, pleasurable, sensuous, horrific, sublime, and so on.

Actually I disagree. We would not be aware of those concepts or terms, and we would not be able to 'feel" them, without the mind. Pain, pleasure, sensation, horror joy and wonder etc. are all constructs of our mind, not of our body. I can get any of those sensations from reading a book or listening to music, or simply imagining them. They come to me fully formed in my dreams.

Yes I need a body to do those things but it is the mind which constructs and creates all sensations and feelings, and one doesn't need external stimuli for any of them, so one doesn't really need a body at all, to gain a complete human experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We need both, don't we, while we're on this planet? That's the beautiful part, both working together harmoniously for a greater good, however we choose to define that. I am grateful that I have a body that allows me to experience the beauty of our mother earth and to dance with joy, to sing sacred songs, to hold a child, to bathe in the ocean, to feel the tradewinds blowing across my body, to see all the stars at night. Isn't it true that for many people it's just these kinds of experiences that remind us of the divine all around us?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually I disagree. We would not be aware of those concepts or terms, and we would not be able to 'feel" them, without the mind. Pain, pleasure, sensation, horror joy and wonder etc. are all constructs of our mind, not of our body. I can get any of those sensations from reading a book or listening to music, or simply imagining them. They come to me fully formed in my dreams.

Yes I need a body to do those things but it is the mind which constructs and creates all sensations and feelings, and one doesn't need external stimuli for any of them, so one doesn't really need a body at all, to gain a complete human experience.

I hear you, but I don't agree. Remove the spirit, the body is an empty shell. A newly formed spirit that has never tasted the realities of this material existence would never know its quirks, e.g. pain, pleasure, sensation, or reading a book. They come to you fully formed in your dreams because you "have" experienced this world. I do know that the spirit remember things of this world after the body dies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will get nothing good from setting a boundary between flesh and spirit.

As an Asian man who is rediscovering his regional culture, I find this dualism silly as hell.

Setting the boundary has the risk of antagonizing between flesh and spirit, and this already has caused so much agony in the civilized world.

Please give me some comment on this. I am really curious how you guys react on this kind of approach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear you, but I don't agree. Remove the spirit, the body is an empty shell. A newly formed spirit that has never tasted the realities of this material existence would never know its quirks, e.g. pain, pleasure, sensation, or reading a book. They come to you fully formed in your dreams because you "have" experienced this world. I do know that the spirit remember things of this world after the body dies.

Actually, I misread your post. I do agree that the spirit is the thing which makes us human, and thus is the most important element of us all.

But, aged 63, I no longer need my body. I would be happy living as a consciousness, interacting with other consciousnesses, without any other "' Physical sensations" or external stimuli.

But to get to this point I needed my body to grow my mind. I just think that perhaps this will not always be the case. If I can find joy, wonder, beauty love etc within my mind, and with only words and concepts, ideas and symbolism, to feel and express them, and if those qualities exist within others, then, theoretically, we should be able to feel and know, and learn those qualities through an exchange of minds, rather than having to have physical experiences of them. Thus also, a computer intelligence should be able to develop all those feelings and sensations without physical external stimuli.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who knows, maybe the body is like training wheels for spirit. I am 63 myself, but still need my body in this dimension, and I'll have to say when it's time to give it up I'm going to do so reluctantly. Life can be so beautiful and sweet and our physical senses allow us to experience it in so many ways. Truly, having a body, being given life on this Earth, I consider to be one of the greatest gifts I've been given. It's like winning the lottery. Wim Wenders expressed this very well in his movie, Wings of Desire, which was later re-made as City of Angels.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will get nothing good from setting a boundary between flesh and spirit.

As an Asian man who is rediscovering his regional culture, I find this dualism silly as hell.

Setting the boundary has the risk of antagonizing between flesh and spirit, and this already has caused so much agony in the civilized world.

Please give me some comment on this. I am really curious how you guys react on this kind of approach.

Do you mean a boundary of being (no distinction between flesh and spirit) or a boundary of interaction (spirit doesn't affect the flesh and vice versa)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Who knows, maybe the body is like training wheels for spirit. I am 63 myself, but still need my body in this dimension, and I'll have to say when it's time to give it up I'm going to do so reluctantly. Life can be so beautiful and sweet and our physical senses allow us to experience it in so many ways. Truly, having a body, being given life on this Earth, I consider to be one of the greatest gifts I've been given. It's like winning the lottery. Wim Wenders expressed this very well in his movie, Wings of Desire, which was later re-made as City of Angels.

This assumes that our consciousness will always require, and have the form of, the external receptors and input devices we presently have in our human body. I was once an artificial intelligence operating a needle ship in another part of our galaxy.. I interacted with my environment and other intelligences via non organic receptors and communicators. I felt joy and curiousity at seeing the wonders of the galaxy as I transversed it. I had a sense of humour and felt sadness and pain just as I do in a human body, because those things are a product of mind and mind is not universally a product of an organic host. I do take your point about the nature of humanity, and what I think of as the human spirit, however. Edited by Mr Walker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I heard a radio show this afternoon that talked about the constant, 24/7 battle between the flesh and spirit, with the flesh playing the usual villain role. I'm wondering about this idea, if it has to be so, if we just perceive it as so, if we've heard it so often we've come to believe it's true without examination. Seems to me that being given both a body and spirit that the two are meant to naturally work together and not in opposition; that each can perhaps enhance the other and work cooperatively instead of being at war. Anyone have any thoughts on this or a different perception?

I've been reading this thread with interest for awhile now, but I haven't had time to comment on it. If the readers will indulge me, I'd like to offer some of my own thoughts on the matter.

To be frank I'm not surprised even some Christians may have been bashing on the body a little bit. There has been always been a tendency in the Church to do this and it goes all the way back to the time of the fathers.

When Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, there were many who felt that the religion had been tainted. They didn't like the culture of Rome in general, and they didn't like the subsequent 'politically correct' version of Christianity, and so many of them withdrew. They became the Desert Fathers and Mothers; and ultimately it gave rise to the ascetic movement and monasticism, culminating with the Rule of Saint Benedict. I must say that I personally have been heavily influenced by ascetic spirituality. My favorite writer and sort of hero, represented in my avatar is the monk Thomas Merton. I love visiting monasteries, in fact I hope to take a monastic retreat and LIVE like a monk for several days this summer. In a world that is overrun with rampant materialism and distraction, I think the voices of the ascetics have much to say to us today.

But at the same time I do see problems with that bent, as the great reformers like Luther and Calvin pointed out. Here are a few of my thoughts:

1. There can be no doubt that many of the early Christians were heavily influenced by both neoplatonism and the Gnostics (who were also influenced by neoplatonism). This is where much of the theology against the body actually stems from. Origen argued for the preexistence of the soul (as did Plato), thus making the soul or the spirit greater than the body. Saint Augustine's conversion experience occurred when reading the previously cited text from Romans. Augustine had been a follower of Manichaeism, which taught both a duality of good and evil and of the flesh and the spirit. Augustine went to great lengths to refute the duality of good and evil, arguing that evil was an absence or a lack of the good, as darkness is an absence of light; but the duality between body and spirit did however creep into his theology, if I am being objective (I love his work). The Confessions, for example, should not be seen merely as a spiritual autobiography. It was in fact a polemic; he was making a lurid example of himself to prove a theological point: that the flesh needed to be beat into submission.

This idea; that the flesh has to be beaten into submission has been prevalent ever since. This is why you will often here many Christians say things like "one should live by the spirit and not the flesh."

But this opinion is incorrect in my view because it not only is it just half of the equation, such a 'diagnosis' only treats the symptoms while missing the root cause of the illness.

The body is not a piece of junk that has to be beaten into submission. Rather, the body and spirit combined are the IMAGE of God in creation. Any attempt to divorce the two is theologically incorrect in my view. The problem is our orientation; not the body itself. God, the source of life, created man in His own image. But in giving us free will; humanity has chosen to try to become its own god; therefore with the birth of the ego we have constructed our own Towers of Babel within ourselves. This orientation away from God, from the source of life, led to the corruption of the body; i.e. death. I actually agree with John Calvin and his take on depravity quite a bit here. In essence, mankind is no longer operating as it should or as it was intended.

Still; this does not mean that the image of God isn't present in us. If humanity was a computer; it is as if we are operating with a lot of malware. The operating system is still intact. You can boot up Windows. You can jump on the internet and type your documents; but you know something is off. It runs slower. It shuts down unexpectedly from time to time.You get strange error messages. This is representative of the human condition as I see it.

Now you have two choices. You can pull the hard drive out, extract all the files and discard the computer completely; in favor of getting a new one. This is what the Gnostics and the Neoplatonists would have us do. Some of us would keep doing system resets and uninstalling programs in an effort to make the computer function properly; this is what some Christians would have us do; beat the thing into submission until it works!! Neither view is correct; neither will fix the problem. If I'm out somewhere and I happen to see a hot girl and I look at her and I have feelings of lust for just a moment; going home and repenting and trying to mortify my flesh simply won't help matters. In fact, it is likely that it will make it worse because then I will begin to harbor constant feelings of guilt over my own sexuality. How can this help with healthy and holistic sexual expression with my wife? These things lead to sexual repression and perversion and I feel it has caused some of the scandals we see in the church today. I have to realize and accept the fact that I am a sexual human being and that sexual expression in itself, is a good thing. It is not something I need to repress or annihilate; rather I need to find a holistic outlet to express it, like my wonderful relationship with my wife.The lists of "you shall nots" are not illnesses unto themselves, but are instead symptoms of the greater disease. If I focus all my attention and energy on trying to remove the error messages appearing on my computer, I will never get the whole thing fixed.

The computer has to be taken in for repairs and the system has to be wiped clean. This is what Jesus Christ has done for us. He restores the operating system to factory default. The Holy Spirit is present in us IN the present. The Kingdom is now; and once the Holy Spirit is in us, both the body and the spirit are renewed as one. Sure, traces of the old malware may be present; but it is not the same. The computer runs smoothly. You don't see the same problems. Christ reorients us; not sets us up against ourselves. Yes, some of the same tendencies and habits are still there. We may stumble sometimes. But there is no perfect computer, not in this life. This is why I always say the Kingdom is both 'now' and 'not yet'. It is here, within us; but at the same time it is not yet fully realized. Perfection comes at the end of history.

But this is important. What separates Christianity from many of the great religions of the world is its emphasis on a BODILY resurrection, with Jesus Christ being the PATTERN, the example. The first Adam brought death, but the second Adam brings life, to the BODY. The body and the spirit should never be divorced; no Christian should ever advocate this, if they do it is heretical (it was ultimately why Origen, great as he was, was condemned as a heretic). After His resurrection, Jesus ate and drank. Thomas touched him. He wasn't a ghost or a spirit being. He had a perfected body the likes of which has never been seen before, nor will we again until the end of history. One day, we will have a body like His body.

"50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h]

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?

Where, O death, is your sting?” (1 Cor 15:50-55)

Many religions do teach a dualism between the body and the soul; Hinduism example states that the body is like a garment, when the garment is worn out, another body is put on. Thus, the body is a mere vehicle of which the soul is the driver.

This is not so with Christianity. Though both have been disoriented by the fall; the Holy Spirit is redeeming and reorienting them in us now; and in the end, when the Kingdom is fully realized we will have new bodies that do not wither and age, bodies that know no sickness or death. The first Adam will be as the Second so to answer your question "can the two be reconciled to work together?" I say absolutely yes. It is the heart of Christian teaching and our blessed hope.

Edited by Marcus Aurelius
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This assumes that our consciousness will always require, and have the form of, the external receptors and input devices we presently have in our human body. I was once an artificial intelligence operating a needle ship in another part of our galaxy.. I interacted with my environment and other intelligences via non organic receptors and communicators. I felt joy and curiousity at seeing the wonders of the galaxy as I transversed it. I had a sense of humour and felt sadness and pain just as I do in a human body, because those things are a product of mind and mind is not universally a product of an organic host. I do take your point about the nature of humanity, and what I think of as the human spirit, however.

I'm not assuming anything. I just like it here, i like the things my body can do, mother earth is a beautiful place. And I'm not assuming I'll get to come around again or that there's an afterlife. What i know i have is the here and now, and if that is all i have or get it would be enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.