The nature and danger of the paranormal

[Deepthunk]

Based on any number of facts I’m aware of, I think it’s clear that quantum entanglement is the explanation for the extra sensory phenomena reported by any number of individuals and statistical evidence of such noted in any number of studies.

To my thinking, if quantum entanglement explains extra sensory phenomena, it might also explain other so called paranormal phenomena, namely the existence of an afterlife or “spirits” if you prefer. It’s entirely possible that information within the central nervous system survives as quantum states between entangled electrons. Since all electrons are naturally entangled with all other electrons, these entanglements may form a type of other space that exists within the entanglements of electrons in real space.

If the above is in fact true, it may be possible to detect, electronically record, and even effect entities and objects within entangled space using a specially designed entanglement interface for a computer or other electronic device. While such an interface is far from being available “over the shelf”, research into quantum engagement devices for the telecommunications and computing may yield (or may even have already yielded) an avenue to develop such an interface in the surprisingly near future.

Having said all that however, I would also point out that in such an afterlife, it would and must be incredibly dangerous for the average person. The reason is that everyone who ever lived is there. Nearly everyone in the past was fanatically religious and many were just as fanatically racist and intolerant of gays and lesbians and it is entirely probable such attitudes never changed since such attitudes rarely changed in life, but such individuals died off leaving society to move forward. Even though society has moved forward, such prejudices are so deeply rooted in the minds of people who lived fifty years ago or more, that they will likely never change, therefore the afterlife must be and is rife with the intolerances of the past.

It would be foolish in the extreme to assume that some deity sits in control of the afterlife; history has clearly demonstrated that natural disasters, social upheavals, and personal maladies accrue due to random or natural forces that are explained, regardless of what religious beliefs societies or individuals maintain. That being the case, it’s clear that no deity rules over the living, or corporeal world, so what reason other than blind faith in a religion, would there be to assume a deity rules or an afterlife? Well other may have blind faith, but I consider blind faith to be, by it’s very nature, blindness.

That being the case, the afterlife must be ruled by people of the past, even the distant past. With the issue being the afterlife, and with respect to the amount of political power churches have had in the past, it would be most probable that any government in the afterlife would be an extremist theocratic regime. All those who founded, for example, the Catholic Church in 325 A.D. and ran it during the Spanish inquisition or during World War 2 when the church blessed the Nazi’s, would still be present and deeply entrenched in power. Indeed, I believe they do rule, with a very specific hierarchy whereby Catholicism is the most powerful and in direct control, and all others down to the smallest Christian church's falling beneath them.

While many so called “psychics” might believe the “spirit world” is some magical happy fun land where goodness always prevails, human history has shown that such utopian ideals are never more than fantasy, reality is always darker, and often much, MUCH darker. Such psychics who would profess such “spirit world” nonsense are most likely either lying charlatans, or completely mislead.

Given the nature of the people of the past and the certainty that the afterlife is governed by a totalitarian theocratic regime, I think it might be vitally important that such afterlife be empirically proven and carefully examined as soon as possible.

Since the tolerance of modern American society would be completely intolerated by people of just a hundred years ago, and given the nature of religious extremism as well as fact that religious extremism rules the non-corporeal world, it may be a matter of the safety of modern people that such an afterlife is proven to exist, carefully examined by impartial professionals aware of the danger and nature of religious extremism, and governed by the modern American government.

[+ouija ouija]

How very depressing if true

[Ashotep]

Who says the afterlife has to have anything to do with religion. Maybe its just a natural transition unique to life on this planet. If it does have anything to do with religion then is there going to be a war over which religion is the right religion in the afterlife.

I have seen a ghost of a cat, she didn't seem unhappy, so the afterlife isn't just for humans..

[wayne a vanpatten]

one day i was meditating and i saw an entity that was the outline of a person but it looked like fuzz on a blurry tv it walked in my room and when it moved it felt like i was a magnet getting pushed away from it .then it got on top of me and it felt like a pile of bricks on me so i said JESUS get this demon out of my home and like that it was gone. since then i have a strong belief in CHRIST>.

[coldethyl]

Wow. That's one interesting hypothesis. That's really all I can say about that.

[DancingCorpse]

I often ponder along the lines of that box. I wonder if hell is real, who the hell runs security and stokes the furnaces and doles out the punishment? What is their payment scheme and holiday pay and sickness pay? Fire ain't inherently bad, it just reacts and digests shiz, I find it beautiful when it is controlled, I don't think it's necessary to lather it in such a place of bad vibes, quite unfair. I don't know all that much about brimstone so that can hover about there, Dick Cheney n' Brimstone seems a more apt combination, infinite Cheney's wavering and roaring away coating the unhallowed halls. It stands to reason that many folks have escaped hell if it exists, unless there is a doomed cosmic glue or paradox or unshakeable chains that bind and affix the sinner to that location.

And where the heck IS it? Where is heaven relative to it? Is everyone in heaven kinda sedated since it's supposed to be peaceful and utopian? It to me is an unfathomable context that such a slab of humanity could reach such a simple solution when life on earth, even in the cosiest neighbourhood, is diverse and confrontational. I dunno, this all freaks me out, I am a simple guy.

[Anthony North]

Theoretically, I view such paranormal phenomena in terms of inter-related levels of consciousness, each of a higher order than the lower one, but allowing access to the one higher, similar to the process with inter-related ecosystems. Put simply, consider 7 basic levels - the individual, consensus, species, planet, solar system, galaxy & universe. In terms of afterlife, I theorise that a point could come, high up the scale, where time becomes an irrelevance. Such a point would create what I term the 'eternal now', where everything that has ever existed, continues to exist. The afterlife?

[White Crane Feather]

What about aliens? Does the catholic church control Aliens in the afterlife as well?

[dr no]

Don't forget all the neanderthals,cro-magnons etc and dinosaurs and extinct species,its going to be carnage in the afterlife and very overcrowded!

Edited March 12, 2014 by dr no

[JesseCuster]

Be wary of any explanations of consciousness, psychic powers, ghosts etc. that invoke quantum mechanics.

I'm no scientist but I know enough to know that quantum mechanics is a deeply mathematical, complicated and abstract subject and the actual experts in the field have difficulty explaining it to us mere laymen. As a result we get a filtered watered down version explained via analogies that doesn't really do justice to it as it's basically impossible to put into words what it really means (and they admit they don't know what some of it really means). But because it's very weird and non-intuitive with oddball ideas like Schrodinger's cat, quantum entanglement, waveform collapses, etc. sometimes people tend to use it as an easy explanation for weird things.

Consciousness is weird and unexplained, therefore [insert layman's quantum physics explanation]. Ghosts are strange and unexplained, therefore [insert layman's quantum physics]. Etc.

Edited March 12, 2014 by JesseCuster

[Merc14]

Based on any number of facts I’m aware of, I think it’s clear that quantum entanglement is the explanation for the extra sensory phenomena reported by any number of individuals and statistical evidence of such noted in any number of studies.

Your theory falls apart in the first line since there is zero proof ESP exists, as far as I know. If empirical evidence of ESP does exist then please link as I'd love to see it.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Merc14

[Occult1]

Your theory falls apart in the first line since there is zero proof ESP exists, as far as I know. If empirical evidence of ESP does exist then please link as I'd love to see it.

Here are some of the best non-local mind evidence (Empirical And Theoritical) according to Dr Patrizio Tressoldi of the General Departement of Psychology, Università Di Padova, Italia: http://www.psy.unipd...etical-evidence

In my view, there is no irrefutable proof that ESP exists but there are indications that it may possibly exist.

Edited March 12, 2014 by sam_comm

[Merc14]

Here are some of the best non-local mind evidence (Empirical And Theoritical) according to Dr Patrizio Tressoldi of the General Departement of Psychology, Università Di Padova, Italia: http://www.psy.unipd...etical-evidence

In my view, there is no irrefutable proof that ESP exists but there are indications that it may possibly exist.

I agree there is no irrefutable proof but indications that it may possibly exist is debatable. I have seen research that indicates it may exist followed by a paper reaching the exact opposite using the same tests so nothing solid here. Regardless, we are pretty much in agreement but the OP states " the explanation for the extra sensory phenomena reported by any number of individuals and statistical evidence of such noted in any number of studies." and I can't find any reputable research that meets that criteria, or even comes close, so his entire theory is derailed at the first sentence.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Merc14

[Forever Cursed]

"Even though society has moved forward, such prejudices are so deeply rooted in the minds of people who lived fifty years ago or more, that they will likely never change, therefore the afterlife must be and is rife with the intolerances of the past."

Going on the premise that when we die we leave our caporal bodies behind, how can we know what would really be on their minds ? Seeing as how we have to leave them behind as well.

[AZDZ]

What about aliens? Does the catholic church control Aliens in the afterlife as well?

Don't forget all the neanderthals,cro-magnons etc and dinosaurs and extinct species,its going to be carnage in the afterlife and very overcrowded!

All those entities were not created in the image of god and therefore are not subject to Laws created to govern Humans. It's almost as if this question is exactly the reason the "in Gods image" line was added to the scriptures in the first place, imo.

Your theory falls apart in the first line since there is zero proof ESP exists, as far as I know. If empirical evidence of ESP does exist then please link as I'd love to see it.

He knew someone would say that.

[Merc14]

He knew someone would say that.

Well, there goes my theory.

[ColoradoParanormal]

I agree there is no irrefutable proof but indications that it may possibly exist is debatable. I have seen research that indicates it may exist followed by a paper reaching the exact opposite using the same tests so nothing solid here. Regardless, we are pretty much in agreement but the OP states " the explanation for the extra sensory phenomena reported by any number of individuals and statistical evidence of such noted in any number of studies." and I can't find any reputable research that meets that criteria, or even comes close, so his entire theory is derailed at the first sentence.

I was struck by the same conclusion as you here. And in accordance with what you've stated, this entire theory is moot. It's a dead subject due to the fact this entire theorem has been based off a subject that is mere conjecture and is, by fact, a fictional subject.

[Rlyeh]

To my thinking, if quantum entanglement explains extra sensory phenomena, it might also explain other so called paranormal phenomena, namely the existence of an afterlife or “spirits” if you prefer. It’s entirely possible that information within the central nervous system survives as quantum states between entangled electrons. Since all electrons are naturally entangled with all other electrons, these entanglements may form a type of other space that exists within the entanglements of electrons in real space.

I'm not sure where you're getting that all electrons are entangled and this would lead to a different type of space. This sounds more like quantum woo.

[rodentraiser]

Quantum mechanics is a science that, while not totally understood, can and is used for everyday use. Schrodinger's Cat is very easily understood. It's simply that whatever line I get into, that will be the line that takes the longest. No matter what line I would have picked, the other lines go faster. Even the shortest line is the longest line. Reality alters depending on which line I pick.

OK, so that was sarcasm.

As for ESP proof, well, this may not be actual proof, but it's as close as it comes, in my opinion. I am copying this from a post I made several years before on another forum:

" I was reading a book the other night called "DogsThat Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home' by Rupert Sheldrak.

The author decided to do a study about dogs that seem to know, minutes, hours and days, before their owners came home.

Now before you start jumping on this, let me give you a little explanation of how they did this study. First, they solicited for accounts of people whose dogs did this. And you have to understand, that many of the dogs here gave enough warning so that spouses at home could begin cooking dinner or having tea ready when the person walked into the door.

Once the dogs were found, they placed a camera in the room with the dog. Then they focused on the owners. The owners were beeped to let them know when they should start for home using cars, buses and trains. They were beeped at different times. They were told to change their mind and then come home at a different time. Watches and clocks were synchronized.

The result was that the dog or dogs in question consistently knew when the person coming home had started on their way, and went to the door of the house and waited there. Sometimes they didn't, but overwhelmingly, the times they did, was far more than by chance alone.

There were cases in here of dogs that got up, then laid back down again. It would turn out the person would change their mind and take a later bus or train. There were dogs that knew when their owners were coming home after a vacation. Occasionally the owners, without letting their dog sitters know, would turn up early and still the dog had gone and sat by the door that particular day.

Dogs in kennels also appeared to know when their owners were coming back, even if their owners came back on a day they weren't expected to.

Cats and horses were also tested and to a lesser degree, they could and did do the same thing.

I just reread 'Born Free' by Joy Adamson and even she has an story about how she went to Nairobi and was gone for several days. The day before she came home, Elsa, her pet lioness, went to sit in the road and didn't move until Joy arrived back home.

So what is this? Something paranormal? And if it's paranormal, how paranormal is it? At what point does the paranormal stop and instinct take over? Or is instinct something paranormal in itself?

The author brought up homing pigeons, which since this book had been published, are shown to have a lodestone in their brains which line them up with magnetic fields. But what about the homing instinct of other animals? The dogs that found their way to an owner's gravestone having never before been near the graveyard? The dog that was tested by being left alone and found her way to a relative's house that was closer than her own.

This book didn't just leave off with animals. At one point it went into what happens when you get 'watched'. They did tests with subjects using a machine that could measure the emotional state of a person like a lie detector test. They found that people's skin resistance changed significantly when they were being looked at on a tv monitor, even if they didn't know it.

And there was one more very interesting thing in this book I know you guys will enjoy. This has to do with humans having 'second sight'. It appears that in the African bush "telepathy" is constant. Bushman in the Kalahari desert know when the hunters have killed an eland from 50 miles off and will be singing celebration songs when the hunters arrive.

The Celts of the Scottish Highlands include 'visions of arrivals' of people that are far away but then later do arrive. and in Norway, there is a word for that: "vardøger". It means 'warning soul'. Typically, someone will hear a person walking or driving up to the house, coming in and hanging up their coat, even if no one is there. Ten to thirty minutes, the same sounds are heard again, but this time the person arrives. And people get used to it - housewives put the kettle on when the vardøger arrives, knowing their husbands are on their way home.

This is so interesting - does this happen in only certain populations? Are people of Norwegian descent more likely to see ghosts than are people of French descent, for instance? If you become totally open to things like this, is our fear then lessened and we see more paranormal things? Have cultures that deem spirits evil and something to be afraid of wiped out the ability to be sensitive to happenings like this?"

*edited for inability to type while thinking - and vice versa.

Edited March 15, 2014 by rodentraiser