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RoofGardener

Rationality and the Iranian Government

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I was intensly amused (but not the least suprised) by this offering from Haraatz online news.

Einstein was Shi'ite Muslim

The report cites a video by Ayatolla Mahadavi Kani, described as the head of the Assembly of Experts in the Islamic Republic of Iran, who says that there are documents proving the Jewish scientist embraced Shiite Islam and was an avid follower of Ja'far Al-Sadiq, an eighth-century Shi'i imam.

.. full story

Einstein's life was closely studied and intensively documented. It is improbable - to say the least - that he could have undertaken a "conversion to Islam" without at least SOMEBODY noticing.

Now, the significance of this story is that it was related by a Senior member of the Iranian government. The Assembly of Experts exerts considerable influence on the Supreme Leader, including matters relating to war.

It is as though the British Secretary of State had announced that he had secret letters from Nelson Mandella, in which Nelson admits admiration for the British Colonial system, and support for Apartheid.

And we would trust these people with Nuclear Weapons ?

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I'm sorry. Where's his evidence to this? Is it just that video?

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Posted (edited)

According to Walter Issacson's Einstein: His Life & Universe, Einstein is quoted stating this; "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

Edit: http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

Edited by Dumpnuts

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I was intensly amused (but not the least suprised) by this offering from Haraatz online news.

Einstein's life was closely studied and intensively documented. It is improbable - to say the least - that he could have undertaken a "conversion to Islam" without at least SOMEBODY noticing.

Now, the significance of this story is that it was related by a Senior member of the Iranian government. The Assembly of Experts exerts considerable influence on the Supreme Leader, including matters relating to war.

It is as though the British Secretary of State had announced that he had secret letters from Nelson Mandella, in which Nelson admits admiration for the British Colonial system, and support for Apartheid.

And we would trust these people with Nuclear Weapons ?

It's been my experience that those here who dismiss the threat do so not based on reality but on their default position of the west (especially America) being the cause of all the troubles in the world. Ergo, US bad means Iran good. It is childish and it will lead to some very damaging consequences but that's okay - as long as they have someone to blame! See how simple it all is? :blink:
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After reading this, several things come to mind. The first is that this reminds me of years back when the Soviets were always claiming that they invented this or invented that. Iran comes along and claims that the Holocaust never occurred and that Einstein rejected Yahweh and became a Shiite. Anything to attack Judaism. I can see Einstein exploring the faith to learn about it. No doubt he was examining this account to see if his theories could apply. Anyone can say the Shahada and study the Quran well enough to understand and still not be Muslim. I would like to think that Iran would not recklessly use nukes against the world but at the same time, I can see them launching at least one nuke at Israel because of their hatred. And then say oops, our bad afterwards. But in the Muslim mind, I can also see them use it as a tool (threat) to dominate and subjugate those around them. I wouldn’t trust them.

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I was intensly amused (but not the least suprised) by this offering from Haraatz online news.

Einstein's life was closely studied and intensively documented. It is improbable - to say the least - that he could have undertaken a "conversion to Islam" without at least SOMEBODY noticing.

Now, the significance of this story is that it was related by a Senior member of the Iranian government. The Assembly of Experts exerts considerable influence on the Supreme Leader, including matters relating to war.

It is as though the British Secretary of State had announced that he had secret letters from Nelson Mandella, in which Nelson admits admiration for the British Colonial system, and support for Apartheid.

And we would trust these people with Nuclear Weapons ?

The Assembly of Experts consists of 86 members - having 1 member saying that Einstein was interested in Shi´a Islam traditions is tantamount to calling the entire Assembly "suspect" and incapable of making informed statements that stand up to scrutiny. It would not surprise me in the least if Einstein did enter into some sort of dialogue about Islam - he was a well renowned joker, and t is just the sort of thing he might have found amusing.

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Posted (edited)

Israel also have nukes, So do pretty much all world powers

Edited by SolarPlexus
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It's been my experience that those here who dismiss the threat do so not based on reality but on their default position of the west (especially America) being the cause of all the troubles in the world. Ergo, US bad means Iran good. It is childish and it will lead to some very damaging consequences but that's okay - as long as they have someone to blame! See how simple it all is? :blink:

Yours (IMO) is a paranoid position. The assumption you make is that ALL USA policies are viewed as inimical in the rest of the world, when that clearly is not the case. USA "bad" in certain Foreign policy areas, does not then translate to Iran is good in ALL of their Foreign Policy areas...

The only "childish" assumptions here are your own - a very simplistic view of Foreign Relations. Thank goodness that your Pres. can rise above this nonsense.

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Yours (IMO) is a paranoid position. The assumption you make is that ALL USA policies are viewed as inimical in the rest of the world, when that clearly is not the case. USA "bad" in certain Foreign policy areas, does not then translate to Iran is good in ALL of their Foreign Policy areas...

The only "childish" assumptions here are your own - a very simplistic view of Foreign Relations. Thank goodness that your Pres. can rise above this nonsense.

Actually, my statements ONLY reflect the general trend I see here at UM. I'm well aware that the entire world isn't against the US - if they were, who would take care of them? :unsure2:
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- a very simplistic view of Foreign Relations.

yes. an infantile view on foreign policy in general

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Israel also have nukes, So do pretty much all world powers

Yes, but unlike Iran, Israel isn't crazy. Or at least, it's not crazy like Iran.

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Yes, but unlike Iran, Israel isn't crazy. Or at least, it's not crazy like Iran.

They are crazy enough to want the US to destroy Iran for them. Thats some kind of special crazy.

Br Cornelius

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Yes, but unlike Iran, Israel isn't crazy. Or at least, it's not crazy like Iran.

Maybe the word you are looking for is "rational"? I think they've proven they are good at safekeeping nukes for about 4 decades at least. And I still say that the actual danger of nukes being employed by Iran actively is pretty small. The danger comes from miscalculations. Israel has radar that can watch Iran in real time for every ballistic launch and every launch will have the potential to be a nation ending nuclear strike. And what if Iran decides to smuggle a nuke into Israel by ship - not that they'd EVER try smuggling weapons into the region. It's the hypocrisy of it all that sickens me. Most of those here who wail about the awful treatment of the Palestinians or others of the region would not care in the slightest if Israel were incinerated by a nuke - other than fear for a counterstrike of course. But hey, it's okay because they don't hate Jews - just Zionists.

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Maybe the word you are looking for is "rational"? I think they've proven they are good at safekeeping nukes for about 4 decades at least. And I still say that the actual danger of nukes being employed by Iran actively is pretty small. The danger comes from miscalculations. Israel has radar that can watch Iran in real time for every ballistic launch and every launch will have the potential to be a nation ending nuclear strike. And what if Iran decides to smuggle a nuke into Israel by ship - not that they'd EVER try smuggling weapons into the region. It's the hypocrisy of it all that sickens me. Most of those here who wail about the awful treatment of the Palestinians or others of the region would not care in the slightest if Israel were incinerated by a nuke - other than fear for a counterstrike of course. But hey, it's okay because they don't hate Jews - just Zionists.

That is where you are horribly wrong and where you are projecting your own sentiments about the Arabs onto others.

I would like to see at least an equality of threat such that Israel would think twice before attempting to initiate a war with Iran to secure its boarders. Only through a position of equality can there ever be the remotest chance of both sides coming honestly to the negotiating table. Until that happens Israel will continue to systematically sabotage any attempt to achieve a negotiated peace.

Br Cornelius

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Posted (edited)

Yes, but unlike Iran, Israel isn't crazy. Or at least, it's not crazy like Iran.

That is a big question. Look Netanyahoo and his Zionist inner circle... Ahmadinejad is a little baby for Netanwhacko IMO. In any case, radical Hebrews are no different than radical Muslims. Ever heard of the Samson option? yeah that's very reasonable and noble

EDIT:

I think they've proven they are good at safekeeping nukes for about 4 decades at least.

If you think Iran has any serious nuke capability you should check yourself to a doctor... Iran has nukes as much as Iraq had WMD. They are a country of peasants and are probably just trying new energy sources. Even if they had a warhead, they would have used it long ago on Israel. And on the other hand Israel has got plenty of warheads plus they flail around with the Samson option... I think I see who is doing more warmongering here.

Edited by SolarPlexus

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Iran comes along and claims that the Holocaust never occurred

Is that Ahmadinejad the Holocaust Denier again? Actually he denied that it happened in the Middle East and then he said that if the Holocaust is going to be the backdrop of a discussion people ought to at least know where it happened.

As the Holocaust actually occurred, maybe Germany should have paid a price for it. Instead we get the US flinging itself into the loving arms of former Nazis to check Stalin in Europe post-WWII. Turning a blind eye to that, we then push Europe's "Jewish Problem" onto the Middle East. How convenient! I think the politics of the Cold War, the us vs. them mentality that consumes a neocon's politics to this day, is in large part responsible for why Jewish victims of Hitler's Holocaust never got their due from Germany and the German people who were actually responsible for it.

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Is that Ahmadinejad the Holocaust Denier again? Actually he denied that it happened in the Middle East and then he said that if the Holocaust is going to be the backdrop of a discussion people ought to at least know where it happened.

As the Holocaust actually occurred, maybe Germany should have paid a price for it. Instead we get the US flinging itself into the loving arms of former Nazis to check Stalin in Europe post-WWII. Turning a blind eye to that, we then push Europe's "Jewish Problem" onto the Middle East. How convenient! I think the politics of the Cold War, the us vs. them mentality that consumes a neocon's politics to this day, is in large part responsible for why Jewish victims of Hitler's Holocaust never got their due from Germany and the German people who were actually responsible for it.

Where's Helen Thomas when you need her? :passifier:

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They are crazy enough to want the US to destroy Iran for them. Thats some kind of special crazy.

Br Cornelius

No, I'd call that CLEVER not crazy.

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Posted (edited)

Where's Helen Thomas when you need her? :passifier:

Another masked attempt at playing the anti-Semitism card. Nothing I said has a word to do with Helen Thomas. If anyone around here is "anti-Semitic" though it's the people who have no druthers about getting in bed with Nazis after the Holocaust because of an unrelated political dispute with someone else. Apparently they really were just following orders. There's no justice here. It's an act of dumping a problem on someone else and then ignoring the injustice and immorality of it on a twisted and hypocritical moral high ground.

Edited by Yamato

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Another masked attempt at playing the anti-Semitism card. Nothing I said has a word to do with Helen Thomas. If anyone around here is "anti-Semitic" though it's the people who have no druthers about getting in bed with Nazis after the Holocaust because of an unrelated political dispute with someone else. Apparently they really were just following orders. There's no justice here. It's an act of dumping a problem on someone else and then ignoring the injustice and immorality of it on a twisted and hypocritical moral high ground.

I was alluding to the fact that the last time I heard such drama about the Jews and Germany it was from her putrid lips.

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I was alluding to the fact that the last time I heard such drama about the Jews and Germany it was from her putrid lips.

She didn't say "the Jews", the media did. She said "Israel".

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She didn't say "the Jews", the media did. She said "Israel".

Technically you are correct on that one. "Israel" had 12 sons, Judah only being one of them. I seem to remember her mentioning that they should go back to Germany and Poland - where they were from. She seemed to forget that all they had was stolen from them and they were threatened with death if they went back. Or maybe she didn't care. She was just another hater who got hoist on her own petard - and it WAS a smelly one ;)

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Technically you are correct on that one. "Israel" had 12 sons, Judah only being one of them. I seem to remember her mentioning that they should go back to Germany and Poland - where they were from. She seemed to forget that all they had was stolen from them and they were threatened with death if they went back. Or maybe she didn't care. She was just another hater who got hoist on her own petard - and it WAS a smelly one ;)

It was made smelly by folks like you who equate the Jews with Israel.

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It was made smelly by folks like you who equate the Jews with Israel.

Israel ?? :huh:

I always equated them with Golders Green (North London) !!

So they have them in Israel as WELL ? Gosh... whooda thunkit ? :P

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Israel ?? :huh:

I always equated them with Golders Green (North London) !!

So they have them in Israel as WELL ? Gosh... whooda thunkit ? :P

Israel yes. Can YOU understand the difference between Jews and Israel? It's a pretty easy read once you look it up.

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