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keithisco

Venice votes in referendum on splitting from.

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Posted (edited)

This has probably been missed with the heinous situation in Crimea, but Venice is also voting today (and over the course of the next week), to become independent from Italy. It is yet another non - binding referendum....

Voting has begin in Venice and the surrounding region on whether to break away from Italy.

Recent opinion polls suggest that two thirds of the four million electorate favour splitting from Rome, but the vote will not be legally binding.

Read More (courtesy BBC): http://www.bbc.com/n...europe-26604044

Edited by keithisco
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So, how do they suppose they could possibly go it alone as an independent city state? I mean, the economy has changed a bit since the glorious days of the Doges,

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Good for them. I guess they'd rely on trading & tourism, doesn't look like agriculture would be their best bet... but what would prevent Italy from enforcing their claim on Venice with force if Venice actually tried to go through with this all the way? How far would, ahd should they go?

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I mean if two thirds truly want to split from a country then I see no reason why they should not be free too.

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I mean if two thirds truly want to split from a country then I see no reason why they should not be free too.

What if that two thirds happens to be sitting on most of the natural wealth of the country? South Sudan is a prime example. It just leads to war.

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The problem is (like with Scotland) that they often seem to expect that the country they want to split from will continue supporting them, or that they'll be able to just take whatever share of the economy, the armed forces etc happens to be in their part of it.

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Thanks for posting Keith i heard rumblings about this on the news awhile ago and completely forgot about it. i cannot see how this referendum can be even considered legal, for the result to carry any legality the Italian government would need to give its approval.

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There seems to be more and more regions and provinces that want to be apart from rest of a country, next will be Naples then Sicily

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If anyone wants Canberra, you can havr it as long as you take Tony Abbott as well.

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Perhaps it shows how tenuous the notion of the 'nation' really is, however important some people may consider it to be to salute the Flag at every opportunity. The good thing now is that, even if these small states may have perpetually warred with each other back in mediaval times, very few of them now would have any significant military capability at all, a modern military capability would be completely out of the reach of even wealthy states like Venice might be, let alone somewhere like Scotland. The military power would surely remain in the control of some kind of federal government, while leaving the individual states to look after themselves.

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Yup Colonel, but would they need any serious military power? It'd be quite different if they lived closer to Russia or USA...

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Everyone seems to think they do.

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If anyone wants Canberra, you can havr it as long as you take Tony Abbott as well.

Oi! What's Canberra ever done to you? (And I'll remind you that 98% of Federal politicians do not come from Canberra...)

And it's not like we voted for Abbott - blame the good burghers of Manly and Mosman for that.

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Well if you get out quickly, we could wall it up with the pollies there and improve the collective national IQ

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i cannot see how this referendum can be even considered legal, for the result to carry any legality the Italian government would need to give its approval.

Or have over 20,000 French troops roll in and scare the Pope.

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The results are in!:

"Activists pushing for the Italian region of Veneto to become an independent country have claimed that over two million residents backed their call in an unofficial referendum.

Although the poll lacks any legal basis, organisers said the high number of voters -56 per cent of registered voters in the region - meant a clear majority of voting Venetians were in favour of restoring the independent Venetian Republic, which dominated the Mediterranean for centuries until it was occupied by Napoleon.

The result was announced to cheers from supporters in a piazza in Trevisolate on Friday after a week of voting.

"It's a huge party here, it's like a reunion," said Cristiano Zanin, one of the organisers of the poll, which was held online and through polling stations set up by local town halls across the region.

Organisers said that of a total of 2.36 million votes cast, out of a total of 3.7 million qualified voters, 2.1 million voted for independence and a quarter of a million voted against."

LINK (Courtesy Daily Telegraph):http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10715888/Veneto-residents-support-leaving-Italy-in-unofficial-referendum.html

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Thanks for posting Keith i heard rumblings about this on the news awhile ago and completely forgot about it. i cannot see how this referendum can be even considered legal, for the result to carry any legality the Italian government would need to give its approval.

...now hang on there Steve. Why does ANY referendum need to be rubber stamped by a central government. In a democracy regions are representing their constituents and their wishes. It's not for the central government to give it's blessing, cause that just means a big fat NO every time. The region or area has a referendum, if it's a yes vote then the central government can make a counter offer and if it's not accepted then they part. Anything other is just a invitation to civil war or a forcible union.

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well lets hope if they eventually get their wish everything works out for Venetian (blinds) otherwise it'll be curtains for them all. :lol: im here all week,

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well lets hope if they eventually get their wish everything works out for Venetian (blinds) otherwise it'll be curtains for them all. :lol: im here all week,

^^^

LOL...

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Posted (edited)

...now hang on there Steve. Why does ANY referendum need to be rubber stamped by a central government. In a democracy regions are representing their constituents and their wishes. It's not for the central government to give it's blessing, cause that just means a big fat NO every time. The region or area has a referendum, if it's a yes vote then the central government can make a counter offer and if it's not accepted then they part. Anything other is just a invitation to civil war or a forcible union.

otherwise we'll have a Europe in chaos with regions breaking away on a whim, included below a map of European separatist movements active today. once you see the picture you might then decide these unofficial referenda are not such a good idea. and you might remember in the Scottish independence thread when i said about road blocks being placed in Scotland's way by any number of the 28 EU members because they all have their own battles. not just the big ones which spring to mind like Spain - Catalonia.

EDIT to add have a look at the wiki link. and to see why we have so many separatist movements in europe is because of the way europe as been divided up by the great powers. - included an interactive map on this link. - http://www.the-map-as-history.com/demos/tome01/index.php and you could go back even further. bear in mind the stability we had here on our little Island, in our own Union. compared to the continent. dont throw all that away in September.

http://en.wikipedia....ments_in_Europe

separatism.gif

Edited by stevewinn

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Posted (edited)

...you can't force two nations/peoples to like and wanna live together anymore than you can two people to do the same.Using the excuse that 'it will be chaos' if we don't. Look at what's happening in Scotland. Even if the better together movement wins, Whitehall has promised to give extra powers to Scotland, thats just buying of Scotland and delaying the inevitable...what happens the next time around when there's no more to offer the Scot's to stay? and the same can be said for the rest of Europe and the Middle East too. Right or wrong according to Darwin it's evolution.

EDIT: The map you've shown is not a accurate representation of the current situation in Europe. Generally those that speak the same language's and share the same customs will share the same orbit.

Edited by Harry_Dresden

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...now hang on there Steve. Why does ANY referendum need to be rubber stamped by a central government. In a democracy regions are representing their constituents and their wishes. It's not for the central government to give it's blessing, cause that just means a big fat NO every time. The region or area has a referendum, if it's a yes vote then the central government can make a counter offer and if it's not accepted then they part. Anything other is just a invitation to civil war or a forcible union.

How about if the nation's constitution requires the approval of the central government? Or the approval of all other state (or provincial, call it what you will) governments?

That's certainly the case with Ukraine. I understand that its constitution requires that all parts of the country have to approve any part seceding. That's why the vote by the people of Crimea means nothing, despite their earnestness.

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Well, the nation was always an artificial concept, wasn't it, the main reason nation states were assembled was to give them enough combined military strength (which meant int he old days sheer numbers of bodies) to become a Great Power. That was what Bismarck wanted, after all, and Garibaldi as well. (even if Italy did turn out to be something of a disappointment in that respect.) Like all empires, they'll decay in time and gradually return to a more localised basis, perhaps as loose confederations of small, self-governing states, with some form of federal government existing basically to provide the basic infrastructure to link them together. That's why the attempt by the EU to make itself a superstate and Military Power is doomed to failure. You mark my words.

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...you can't force two nations/peoples to like and wanna live together anymore than you can two people to do the same.Using the excuse that 'it will be chaos' if we don't. Look at what's happening in Scotland. Even if the better together movement wins, Whitehall has promised to give extra powers to Scotland, thats just buying of Scotland and delaying the inevitable...what happens the next time around when there's no more to offer the Scot's to stay? and the same can be said for the rest of Europe and the Middle East too. Right or wrong according to Darwin it's evolution.

I'd have thought preventing Chaos would be reason alone, i for one dont want to live in a Europe were we could end up with over one hundred small independent regions, with no economic and financial stability, no way to defend themselves, and in the future open to annexation by any number of countries who have a claim. which could very well lead to the Great Powers going to war over. and then the genie is out the lamp, why stop at regions, we could do it on a city scale. were do we draw the line.

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Posted (edited)

How about if the nation's constitution requires the approval of the central government? Or the approval of all other state (or provincial, call it what you will) governments?

That's certainly the case with Ukraine. I understand that its constitution requires that all parts of the country have to approve any part seceding. That's why the vote by the people of Crimea means nothing, despite their earnestness.

Every nation is different. Speaking of the Crimea it's a traditional part of Russia. The People are predominately Russian and the territory was given to the Ukraine 50 years ago to celebrate the 300 year union of Russia and Ukraine. So let the Russians give it back.. What the hell is Ukraine going to do with a civil disobedience problem or worst still a civil war? You really think that Ukraine is upset that they lost something that they can't keep?

EDIT: What exactly is country's constitution? It's not from GOD! it can be changed, amended and modified at will.

Edited by Harry_Dresden
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