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ambelamba

Insignificance = Sin?

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I only saw the first episode of new Cosmos on Fox. I was busy fixing my PC made out of old spare parts and didn't have time to watch yesterday's episode. Sad.

But the first episode was powerful enough to think on some deep thing. The simple demonstration of the size of universe is truly a humble experience. Size-wise, we are insignificant, and this doesn't sit well with many people out there.

Well, it really didn't matter where I came from. Our cosmology was rather incompatible with Judeo-Christian one, philosophically speaking. Being cosmically insignificant didn't mean really negative to my ancestors. So we are nothing compared to the entire universe. So what? Nobody's condemning you but yourself for being insignificant. Same thing with evolution. You have to have different perspective and mindset to see evolution without contempt. So we came from...these tiny rodents that had to run away from Velociraptors. Is that...bad? Why can't we think that natural evolution is a spiritually humbling idea that makes us have more respect on nature and cosmos?

If the contempt on evolution partly came from the contempt on the concept of humility toward nature, my remaining affection for America as a military veteran will die off. We were never known for humility, which is a major weakness because hubris is the key to self destruction.

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In my opinion some people are wired to worship as a form of OCD.The Bible locks on this wiring.

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I only saw the first episode of new Cosmos on Fox. I was busy fixing my PC made out of old spare parts and didn't have time to watch yesterday's episode. Sad.

But the first episode was powerful enough to think on some deep thing. The simple demonstration of the size of universe is truly a humble experience. Size-wise, we are insignificant, and this doesn't sit well with many people out there.

Well, it really didn't matter where I came from. Our cosmology was rather incompatible with Judeo-Christian one, philosophically speaking. Being cosmically insignificant didn't mean really negative to my ancestors. So we are nothing compared to the entire universe. So what? Nobody's condemning you but yourself for being insignificant. Same thing with evolution. You have to have different perspective and mindset to see evolution without contempt. So we came from...these tiny rodents that had to run away from Velociraptors. Is that...bad? Why can't we think that natural evolution is a spiritually humbling idea that makes us have more respect on nature and cosmos?

If the contempt on evolution partly came from the contempt on the concept of humility toward nature, my remaining affection for America as a military veteran will die off. We were never known for humility, which is a major weakness because hubris is the key to self destruction.

Pride definitely goes before destruction. I think you are falsely conflating size or scale with significance though. I tend to think of the very infinity of scale to increase, rather than diminish the importance of our existence. We were made to be self aware - in the image of our creator. We have no idea what the next step of our evolution is to be. Who is to say that all that vast expanse is not in need of "shepherds" :)

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"So we came from...these tiny rodents that had to run away from Velociraptors. Is that...bad? Why can't we think that natural evolution is a spiritually humbling idea that makes us have more respect on nature and cosmos?"

YES!!!!!!!!

Whe I read this bit, I just could not agree more, and no matter how many times I have heard something along those line, the way you said it spoke loud to me.

Yes, we came from nature, so why are we so determine to destroy it. You can tell me that not everyones like that blah blah, but the stone cold truth is everybody is contributing EVEN me, to this. Consumerism is at its worst. If not everybody was like this, THEN, we would see such abuse. So this only indicates that the majority are causing harm. Aware or not.

The budget of war is still all time highs, AND THERE HASNT BEEN A WAR IN DECADES well there has been, but again mainly for the sake of power and money (reasources) petty wars.

After all this, ME too am a culpit. however in the last 3 to 4 years of my philsophical views and lifestyle, I have stopped by meat from supermarkets (i get it from a mate that hunts - Which I want to learn to do myself - some people may not understand the difference here) I have stopped using plastic bags. I am growing my own veggies. I do not use my vechile for a trip to the shop. Many more thing.

eventually I want to be completely self efficent. and for my output to not outweight my input to this earth

Problem is, the last 150 years have developed a world like this. it will take longer to change.

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In my opinion some people are wired to worship as a form of OCD.The Bible locks on this wiring.

In my opinion, some people cannot come to terms with the existence of a higher power. If they can't get all the answers according to their perceptions, then it simply doesn't exist in their closed off and sometimes arrogant minds. Other times, I think people will just refuse it outright regardless, even if God puts the evidence right in front of them.

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Posted (edited)

In my opinion the 'higher power' is with inside.

It has nothing to do with scriptures. Each and everyone of us knows, innately what is right or wrong. I don't need to read a passage from a book to tell me what I 'should' do.

That is simply self evident.

All would do well to research the 'golden rule' which is a univeral truth that stretches across and includes every tenet of faith, even those of no faith. It includes people like me,

Edit: Maybe if humankind embaced the 'Golden Rule' originally, there might not be a reason for religion.

Edited by Likely Guy
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In my opinion the 'higher power' is with inside.

It has nothing to do with scriptures. Each and everyone of us knows, innately what is right or wrong. I don't need to read a passage from a book to tell me what I 'should' do.

That is simply self evident.

All would do well to research the 'golden rule' which is a univeral truth that stretches across and includes every tenet of faith, even those of no faith. It includes people like me,

Edit: Maybe if humankind embaced the 'Golden Rule' originally, there might not be a reason for religion.

Maybe, LG, but it just isn't in our human nature to do so. We have certainly evolved socially and are generally not as brutal as our ancestors but I think that is mostly down to having food and shelter and goods enough to quiet those drives. Take that away and the brutality will return in a generation.
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In my opinion, some people cannot come to terms with the existence of a higher power. If they can't get all the answers according to their perceptions, then it simply doesn't exist in their closed off and sometimes arrogant minds. Other times, I think people will just refuse it outright regardless, even if God puts the evidence right in front of them.

So I should believe because I see a pretty sunset?

Should I open my mind, and humble my self to the pretty sunset?

Should I then feel special because the pretty sunset has a plan for me for believing in it?

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Posted (edited)

Maybe, LG, but it just isn't in our human nature to do so. We have certainly evolved socially and are generally not as brutal as our ancestors but I think that is mostly down to having food and shelter and goods enough to quiet those drives. Take that away and the brutality will return in a generation.

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you', I cannot understand why that concept does not transcend all others.

Edit: In many times of strife, this behaviour is self evident.

Re-edit; i.e.: The concept of 'self sacrifice'.

Edited by Likely Guy

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Posted (edited)

I just gave you my opinion as you gave us yours, relax. The pretty sunset is not God technically speaking, he did create it though. :tu:

Edited by Laurent
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So I should believe because I see a pretty sunset?

Should I open my mind, and humble my self to the pretty sunset?

Should I then feel special because the pretty sunset has a plan for me for believing in it?

Is it your belief that everything in the universe came from nothing and is going nowhere? That all of it is random and no creative intelligence brought it into being? And if that is the case then isn't that a kind of faith also?
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Is it your belief that everything in the universe came from nothing and is going nowhere? That all of it is random and no creative intelligence brought it into being? And if that is the case then isn't that a kind of faith also?

It is not a kind of faith. It is acceptance of reality regardless of what we wish were the case.

Personally I find the presence of minds at least on the earth the one thing that doesn't fit this scenario, but there was no creator. We evolved as biological beings.

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I just gave you my opinion as you gave us yours, relax. The pretty sunset is not God technically speaking, he did create it though. :tu:

God created the pretty sunset. How about the one's that aren't so pretty? Think a little on the subject. It does no good to credit God for everything you like and not for the less pleasant things.
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Posted (edited)

God created the pretty sunset. How about the one's that aren't so pretty? Think a little on the subject. It does no good to credit God for everything you like and not for the less pleasant things.

I understand what you're saying. It is tricky, absolutely. I believe that we come from God and that us human beings are composed of many layers, I naturally assume God is too. After all, we are his children, rebellious or not.

Anyway, I appreciate your input, but I will not further discuss this, because I'm not going to change anyone's mind and same here. Peace.

Edited by Laurent
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It's one thing to create the pretty sunset. I'm not so sure that God created the appreciative audience.

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So what's the evidence that the pretty sunset was intelligently created?

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So what's the evidence that the pretty sunset was intelligently created?

The man refuses to discuss the issue except to say he sees the issue is complicated. I guess that is the best an of us can do.
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The man refuses to discuss the issue except to say he sees the issue is complicated. I guess that is the best an of us can do.

That leads to who has the best mythology to explain it, and claim science proves it, while ignoring a multitude of other things.

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Actually the sunset was 'created' by the same process that made the sun and the planets, the condensation of a nebula into a star and its associated accretion disc. We see this process in it's various stages all over the galaxy.

Here are several of them in the Orion Nebula:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M42proplyds.jpg

I was out walking one early morning, before sunrise, and along the beach I witnessed probably the most stunning thing I've ever seen. The ocean was almost completely still, and the full moon hung fairly low over the horizon, and the light created a silver path on the water which looked like I could have walked on. I wasn't conceited enough to assume that it was put there for me. If anything it makes me think about optics.

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The beautiful sunset is created entirely in our heads. All that is happening "out there" is that the earth is rotating in such a way as the observer falls in the earths shadow.

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In my opinion some people are wired to worship as a form of OCD.The Bible locks on this wiring.

This. But I wonder if it was a coincidence or the Bible was a deliberate product for it.

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This. But I wonder if it was a coincidence or the Bible was a deliberate product for it.

You know the answer to that one. :tu:

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So I should believe because I see a pretty sunset?

Should I open my mind, and humble my self to the pretty sunset?

Should I then feel special because the pretty sunset has a plan for me for believing in it?

Yes x3 silly. :)

No, that's the beauty of being a free thinking individual, you're free to believe what you want.

My gripe is when people shove their beliefs down other peoples throats and state opinions like they're fact.

(Not thorns aimed at you Davros, just something i've wanted to vent and figured, ah, what the hell, i'll tack it on here.)

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No proof either way, created or not. Both require some faith.

Safe to say the sunset is created by conditions of which we are part... for without our rods n cones, it would not exist the way it does for us...

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...Being cosmically insignificant didn't mean really negative to my ancestors. So we are nothing compared to the entire universe. So what? Nobody's condemning you but yourself for being insignificant....

'Significance' is a human idea, not a cosmic idea.

I would think , whether large or small, hot or cold, clever or stupid, each has its merit

and each is equal.

It is , for me, being part of the universe, not just an Earth human.

As a coordinated pattern, we have a purpose, but so does a dust cloud in the middle

of nowhere.

The bigger the brain, the better at picking out patterns and analysis of patterns.

Life is all about patterns - atoms have patterns - galaxies have patterns,

I deduce it is all mathematically magnetic - every pattern we know and see.

They will not elaborate on the magnetic aspects of cosmic mechanisms.

They wish to play it all off as gravitational waves.

Getting to the crux, the human pattern is the ultimate and it could be that we

as a collective, are the eyes and ears of the cosmos, so to speak.

Is it possible, the human brain evolved to interface the cosmic essence

to observe 'itself' and develop or evolve 'itself'?

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