Vaccines Did not Save us.. Statistics

[Imaginarynumber1]

Just noticed this.

That pamphlet should be removed from circulation. There is medical proof that Autism develops in a child's brain while the child is still in the womb.

Autism Awareness: Disorder Begins Before Brain Is Fully Developed, Making Risks From Vaccinations Impossible

http://www.medicalda...possible-272874

Cz

Iit has been long suspected that autism is present in the womb and I have seen may studies that suggest this and supply evidence. I hope the authors are correct and this is the smoking gun that proves it once and for all.

Also, there is an outbreak of mumps that started with just 5 people here on the OSU campus that has now spread to 87 confirmed cases with more possible cases in 5 surrounding counties.

As much as I love some good testicular inflammation, that MMR vaccine is proving its worth.

[Stellar]

I don't know why people are ao upset with Angel13 here... She's not an "anti vaxer", she simply practices a healthy risk-to-reward approach to what she injects into her body and her kids. She's already stated that she accepts vaccines for the more risky diseases, it's the less risky ones she's not inclined to be vaccinated for. What's the problem with that?

[Stellar]

As for Angel, I completely understand what you mean by erring on the side of caution. I'm betting you're also concerned with potential as-of-yet undocumented effects of some of the ingredients they put into vaccines as adjuvants and preservatives and I see nothing wrong with that. Why pollute your body simply to give yourself a better chance at not catching something as simple as the flu?

[Czero 101]

I don't know why people are ao upset with Angel13 here... She's not an "anti vaxer", she simply practices a healthy risk-to-reward approach to what she injects into her body and her kids. She's already stated that she accepts vaccines for the more risky diseases, it's the less risky ones she's not inclined to be vaccinated for. What's the problem with that?

I'm not upset with her at all. The topic of diabetes is one I know a fair amount about, and with Solar Plexus gracing us with his vast amount of ignorance about the disease and his claims of alleged "cures", I just wanted to provide correct, factual information about the disease.

And it was just pure coincidence that the Autism topic came up within a few hours of the article I posted about Autism developing in the womb showing up on my Facebook newsfeed...

My apologies if Angel thought I was upset or trying to do anything more than provide accurate information... certainly wasn't my intent.

Cz

Edited March 29, 2014 by Czero 101

[spartan max2]

yeah flu vaccines are pointless

[ChrLzs]

I don't know why people are ao upset with Angel13 here... She's not an "anti vaxer", she simply...

.. told us all that:

there is a pamphlet given to the parents before a vaccine is given warning of all the possible side effects. Autsim being very common, even death

Was there a pamphlet saying all that?

Is Autism in any way a result of vaccination, let alone a 'very common' one?

Is death a 'very common' result of vaccination?

Would you agree that NO is the answer to each of those questions? - if you say Yes to any, please give reasons and some verifiable statistics/studies.... and then maybe instead of claiming people are upset, you should accept that they are simply correcting misinformation.

And YES, the local outbreaks here (and in many other parts of the world) are generally a direct result of people who didn't vaccinate.. Certainly the reason they spread, if, say, introduced by an overseas traveler, is the lack of 'herd immunity' that is now becoming a problem.

And why didn't they vaccinate? When making that choice, were they fully and properly informed? How did they know what diseases might or might not be 'common'? If they are uncommon here, how does that help when you might have casual contact with a person who is visiting from a country where the disease *is* common? Did they have a good idea of what the risks were and how significant they actually are? Obviously, Angel13 did NOT have a good idea of that.....

Clearly, the 'research' that led to Angel13's perceptions - which were made very clear by what she posted, was perhaps not as in-depth as it could have been. And if incorrect information and scaremongering is left unchallenged, it will just get worse..

[Obviousman]

Yeah, I'm not an anti-vaxer but I just want to know why vaccines kill children and cause horrendous mutations in adults (as well as reducing their IQ and removing any sex drive).

I'm not an anti-vaxer, just asking questions....

[SolarPlexus]

AFAIK they've found traces of mercury in vaccines (US), which could increase chances of autism in children

[Angel13]

.. told us all that:

Was there a pamphlet saying all that?

Is Autism in any way a result of vaccination, let alone a 'very common' one?

Is death a 'very common' result of vaccination?

Would you agree that NO is the answer to each of those questions? - if you say Yes to any, please give reasons and some verifiable statistics/studies.... and then maybe instead of claiming people are upset, you should accept that they are simply correcting misinformation.

And YES, the local outbreaks here (and in many other parts of the world) are generally a direct result of people who didn't vaccinate.. Certainly the reason they spread, if, say, introduced by an overseas traveler, is the lack of 'herd immunity' that is now becoming a problem.

And why didn't they vaccinate? When making that choice, were they fully and properly informed? How did they know what diseases might or might not be 'common'? If they are uncommon here, how does that help when you might have casual contact with a person who is visiting from a country where the disease *is* common? Did they have a good idea of what the risks were and how significant they actually are? Obviously, Angel13 did NOT have a good idea of that.....

Clearly, the 'research' that led to Angel13's perceptions - which were made very clear by what she posted, was perhaps not as in-depth as it could have been. And if incorrect information and scaremongering is left unchallenged, it will just get worse..

You are clearly challenging me personally not the information provided to me. Also it is fact that people who have received pertussis vaccine has indeed contracted whopping cough in the case provided here( measels in Ohio and whooping cough in Australia). You misinterpreted my "perception of erring on the side of caution". I did not perceive that vaccination was linked to autism . It was information given to me by administering Doctors at the time. Of course currently, it is being dispelled but it has not always been that way. There still is little known about the affects of Aluminum in vaccines or the use of Thimerosal in Vaccines.( however vaccine manufacturers have agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or even eliminated in vaccines, I wonder why).

As stated, I am not anti-vax. You dont even know which vaccinations I have not received yet you say to me (something to the effect of) I hope your children dont suffer the consequence of your action or other children around mine. - I think they can handle the flu. Please show me the data that states the use of adjuvents is 100 percent safe. I will gladly rethink my decisions.

I appreciate and commend your passion, Sir. And I applaud you for being so dedicated to your point of view. Good for you. Quite possibly the opinion you provide could help someone in making their decision! Which I suspect is your intention.

If I may elaborate a little- my statement, I choose to err on the side of caution (my perception) was referring to the side effects pertaining to each vaccine and the risk . Autism was/is not the only factor in my decisions but was considered as it was told to me to be a side possible side effect.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Angel13

[Angel13]

Edit to add- It is fair to also state that there is much financial gain from the use of vaccinations also much financial loss if it was said autism is caused by Vaccines. Imagine the law suits!

Edit to add:

I would like to clearify that I did not state Death was a very common side effect... only that it was listed as a side effect.

However small the probability, there have been deaths that have been unable to exclude vaccine as the cause.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Angel13

[Czero 101]

AFAIK they've found traces of mercury in vaccines (US), which could increase chances of autism in children

So you're just going to ignore the article posted earlier that shows that it is impossible for vaccines to be the cause of Autism and continue to spew your unfounded crap...?

Cz

[FurthurBB]

Honey can be a wiser choice for a diabetic since it (as mentioned above) doesn't require as much insulin as regular (table) sugar to process and doesn't not raise a person's blood glucose level as rapidly as table sugar does. It has a few other advantages over table sugar due to its (essentially) one-to-one ratio of fructose and glucose, but a cure it is definitely not.

Cz

I can't have honey. It has too much fructose and a salicylate that activates an antibody I don't want active.

[stereologist]

Thank you for that information! I do realize that there are risks to not vaccinating but there are risks to vaccinate as well. I have seen instances of vaccinated children actually contracting the very disease they were vaccinated against. And where I live there is a pamphlet given to the parents before a vaccine is given warning of all the possible side effects. Autsim being very common, even death. Like I said I choose very carefully the vaccinations my child receives but some there are so many that are not warranted so you wonder why the Doctors push them so.

You can't get the disease from the vaccination. If a child is already infected, but not expressing the disease then the vaccination is too late. Autism is not linked to vaccinations. Death is extremely uncommon from vaccinations. A single death often stops a vaccination program even when the link to the vaccine is poor. It's just a safety mechanism used int he system. There are not many vaccinations in the US. There are many more that are recommended for travel outside of the US. I've had quite a few of them.

[FurthurBB]

I will give my child honey thats had a chunk of garlic soaked in it, when they have the beginning of a cold, instead of cold meds. I have seen diabetics go on to discontinue insulin after supplementing with cinnamon and proper diet. I treat my children with homeopathic medicine to reduce a fever. I also have refused certain immunizations for my children. Yes, I am grateful for science and medicine but I would tend to lean toward holistic healing first. My oldest being 22 years old and very strong and healthy. I'd say some techniques arent that crazy.

I would never scold another person for what their belief is.

In my humble opinion some vaccinations are unnecessary. Medicine is not perfect and there are pro's and con's to each side. It is a very personal choice either way

I also have a 22 year old son who is extremely strong, healthy, and smart. I can actually count the number of times he has been ill in his life on one hand. He is fully vaccinated. So, you didn't gain anything, but were lucky enough that your son never came into contact with the illnesses you didn't vaccnate for or he had an uncomplicated case of the disease. Why take all the risk for no benefit?

[stereologist]

Yeah, I'm not an anti-vaxer but I just want to know why vaccines kill children and cause horrendous mutations in adults (as well as reducing their IQ and removing any sex drive).

I'm not an anti-vaxer, just asking questions....

1. Deaths due to vaccines are extremely rare. Care to expand on your comment.

2. Care to explain where you get the idea that vaccines cause mutations in humans.

3. Care to explain where you get the idea that vaccines lower IQ or remove sex drive.

I've never heard of any of these issues you mention.

[FurthurBB]

May I just add, if you have a tooth ache try biting on a black tea- tea bag. It will help relieve your pain...you could fill you tooth with cloves as well... until you can get to a doctor anyway (I know it can be hard to get into the dentist as soon as an emergency arises). I'll go to my cupboard before going to the medicine cabinet any day of the week

That is what the oral surgeon who took out my wisdom teeth told me to do. Very few pain relievers work well on tooth pain because there are no neuroreceptors between cells, there are only gap junctions that let the signals flow freely from cell to cell, which is one of the reasons you feel tooth pain distally. So, NSAIDs can work sometimes if it is not too bad, tylenol doesn't work without narcotics (some narcotics give me headaches), and resistence is built quickly to topical anesthetics.

Edited March 29, 2014 by FurthurBB

[stereologist]

AFAIK they've found traces of mercury in vaccines (US), which could increase chances of autism in children

The mercury compound used as a preservative in vaccines has no effect on people. It has been discontinued. That has not effected autism rates. It was discontinued long before that in some European countries with no effect on the autism rate.

[FurthurBB]

Thank you for that information! I do realize that there are risks to not vaccinating but there are risks to vaccinate as well. I have seen instances of vaccinated children actually contracting the very disease they were vaccinated against. And where I live there is a pamphlet given to the parents before a vaccine is given warning of all the possible side effects. Autsim being very common, even death. Like I said I choose very carefully the vaccinations my child receives but some there are so many that are not warranted so you wonder why the Doctors push them so.

There is no risk that you child will contract a disease from a vaccine unless they are severly immune compromised and then your doctor would not give them those vaccines. Vaccines are anywhere from 65% (influenza)-99% (measles component of MMR) effective at preventing disease. So, even for measles, if 1% of 1,000,000 were susceptible to measles even after vaccination and all 1,000,000 were in a room with the measles virus which causes infection in 98% of susceptible people who come into contact with it 9,800 vaccinated people would contract measles. Now if there were also 1,000,000 unvaccinated people in the room 980,000 of them would contract measles. Is that a reason to not vaccinate?

Autism is not a side effect of vaccines. Serious reactions to vaccines are extremely rare. So much so that most doctors in developed countries have never seen one. The most common by far of the serious reactions is anaphylactic shock brought on by an allergy to one of the ingredients. Allergies are not a side effect of vaccines they are a part of life. An allergy is a reason to not get a vaccine, but some people having allergies is not a reason to not vaccinate. All vaccines are warranted. I do not want my children to suffer needlessly.

[stereologist]

You are clearly challenging me personally not the information provided to me. Also it is fact that people who have received pertussis vaccine has indeed contracted whopping cough in the case provided here( measels in Ohio and whooping cough in Australia). You misinterpreted my "perception of erring on the side of caution". I did not perceive that vaccination was linked to autism . It was information given to me by administering Doctors at the time. Of course currently, it is being dispelled but it has not always been that way. There still is little known about the affects of Aluminum in vaccines or the use of Thimerosal in Vaccines.( however vaccine manufacturers have agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or even eliminated in vaccines, I wonder why).

As stated, I am not anti-vax. You dont even know which vaccinations I have not received yet you say to me (something to the effect of) I hope your children dont suffer the consequence of your action or other children around mine. - I think they can handle the flu. Please show me the data that states the use of adjuvents is 100 percent safe. I will gladly rethink my decisions.

I appreciate and commend your passion, Sir. And I applaud you for being so dedicated to your point of view. Good for you. Quite possibly the opinion you provide could help someone in making their decision! Which I suspect is your intention.

If I may elaborate a little- my statement, I choose to err on the side of caution (my perception) was referring to the side effects pertaining to each vaccine and the risk . Autism was/is not the only factor in my decisions but was considered as it was told to me to be a side possible side effect.

People can get a disease if they get the vaccine after they have been exposed. It is also possible that a vaccine is not always 100% effective. The vaccine does not cause the disease.

Studies have shown that about 25% of the time people get confused on medical issues when there is much to absorb. The problem is not making a mistaken,but rather that the people tend to ascribe their error to the source they cite. A study on flu pamphlets handing out by the CDC had 25% of the people thinking that you could get the flu from the vaccine. They claimed that the pamphlet put out by the CDC was the source of the info. Even when people were shown the pamphlet many continued to insist that the pamphlet they originally read stated that the CDC had stated that the flu could be contracted from the vaccine.

Now I can't be sure that is the case here. It certainly does sound like the situation in the study.

[Czero 101]

1. Deaths due to vaccines are extremely rare. Care to expand on your comment.

2. Care to explain where you get the idea that vaccines cause mutations in humans.

3. Care to explain where you get the idea that vaccines lower IQ or remove sex drive.

I've never heard of any of these issues you mention.

Pretty sure O-man was being just a little bit sarcastic.....

Cz

[FurthurBB]

The fact that your dad was on insulin for a year as you say confirms that he has type 2 diabetes. Type 2 typically develops in adults, where as type 1 diabetes (commonly called Early Onset Diabetes) tends to present itself when one is still a child. Because of the damage this disease can do to a young body, especially if it is misdiagnosed in a child (which happens more than one would expect) the average life expectancy of a type 1 diabetic is significantly lower than average.

As mentioned previously, I speak from personal experience as a type 2 diabetic and as someone who lost a dear friend to the ravaging effects of type 1 diabetes. With type 2 diabetes, management of one's blood glucose level is the main focus of treatment. Cinnamon and honey (amongst a few other natural sources) combined with exercise and proper diet can reduce or eliminate a type 2 diabetic's need for supplemental insulin to practically zero. The disease never goes away, though. If your father changes his activity level or stops supplementing with cinnamon, they need for insulin injections or other meds will very likely return.

Cz

Actually there has been a real increase in cases of type I diabetes diagnosed after adolescence. It is interesting because a good majority of the people diagnosed have risk factors for type II. I am excited to read new research on this subject.

Edited March 29, 2014 by FurthurBB

[FurthurBB]

Oh, come now. We all know autism is caused by ultrasounds performed on the mother while she is pregnant. Think about it. Look at all the children who have been reported with autism since they first started using ultrasounds. Are you seriously trying to tell me there's no connection? *tongue in cheek*

That statement I highlighted in your original comment is actually the reason polio got its start. Polio is a virus that lives in dirt and before we started with the 'Cleanliness is next to Godliness" bit, every child in America was exposed to it in infancy. As we cleaned up our houses and bodies, children began meeting polio later in life, with the familiar result of leg braces and iron lung. If they were lucky.

*edited on account of I still can't spell in the middle of the day

That is one idea, another idea is that it wasn't polio that kids were being exposed to but more nonpathogenic enteric viruses that had similar antigens to polio, and another is that polio gained a mutation at that time. Any way you look at it polio did not become an epidemic until sanitation improved in the US and UK at least. Then you look at India and it makes me think it might have been a mutation.

Edited March 29, 2014 by FurthurBB

[FurthurBB]

Yes that is true, but I will gladly err on the side of caution (or my perception of it) and so far it has not harmed my family. What if I chose to medicate my children and myself homeopathically? What issue should that be for others? If I chose to not opt for every vaccine offered? For the record I did allow the polio vaccine as it does not give any serious medical side effects. Education is key and as I said before I am grateful for science and some of the wonderful medical knowledge gained. I also stated I have know children to be vaccinated and develop the disease vaccinated for, whopping cough being one of them (pertussis). Chicken pox, influenza, hpv vaccine - not interested. Each and every person has the ability to make choices for themselves and I am 100 percent happy with my choices so far. For every one study there is another refuting it. I am not saying your choices are wrong for your situation I only state my choices work for me.

You risk other people's safety when you chose not to vaccinate. Like I said, even with measles with is very effective you need 95% of the population vaccinated to protect those who are too young, the 1% who were vaccinated but did not make antibodies, everyone can vaccinate with MMR I believe unless they have no immune system but with some vaccines there are the immune comprimised, people on chemotherapy or some biologics, recent organ recipients. There are no studies refuting vaccinology I am sorry. There are no studies linking vaccines to anything horrible. There is only one side in this debate with real evidence.

[FurthurBB]

Iit has been long suspected that autism is present in the womb and I have seen may studies that suggest this and supply evidence. I hope the authors are correct and this is the smoking gun that proves it once and for all.

Also, there is an outbreak of mumps that started with just 5 people here on the OSU campus that has now spread to 87 confirmed cases with more possible cases in 5 surrounding counties.

As much as I love some good testicular inflammation, that MMR vaccine is proving its worth.

I mean, what else is there to suspect? It has long been known that people with autism have larger brains with more neuronal connections. What mechanism could there be that would restart neurogenesis after birth?

[FurthurBB]

AFAIK they've found traces of mercury in vaccines (US), which could increase chances of autism in children

Mercury has nothing to with autism. There was never any mercury in US vaccines there was an organomercury compound that released ethyl mercury into the body. Mammals have an efficient means of eliminating ethyl mercury from the body, unlike methyl mercury in fish.