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OverSword

Sailors quit Navy over social issues

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Posted (edited)

Hmmm...I wonder how true this is?

From the article:

A Navy F-18 fighter pilot and former Top Gun instructor is publicly warning admirals that retention is beginning to suffer from the military’s relentless social conditioning programs.

Cmdr. Guy Snodgrass, until recently a Pentagon speech writer for the chief of naval operations, Adm. Jonathan Greenert, said sailors are becoming fed-up with the constant emphasis on social issues — an apparent reference to gays in the military, women in combat and ending sexual harassment.

“Sailors continue to cite the over-focus on social issues by senior leadership, above and beyond discussions on war fighting — a fact that demoralizes junior and mid-grade officers alike,” Cmdr. Snodgrass wrote this month on the U.S. Naval Institute website, an independent forum for active and retired sailors and Marines.

Read the rest here

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Edited by OverSword

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Posted (edited)

Eh..can't say I disagree. If anything can make you want to kill yourself, it is a 5 hour suicide awareness class...I don't the the homosexual push and women in combat is a factor though.

Edited by Agent0range
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Posted (edited)

I can understand the annoyance but I dout anyone would quit over it.

I can understand the annoyance just because im in college and every class they somehow tie back into a speech about gay black or women equality.

Not that im against any of these things but i swear that my entire English course was about homosexuality. Gets annoying

And my entire sociology course was about how we are all apparently racist horrible people and women get sooo insanely mistreated in our society. Im not saying we don't have some issues but dam not in the degree that professor thought

Edited by spartan max2
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Ah, the regular story about how Political Correctness is ruining _____ (insert name here of ancient and venerable institution that Political Correctness is ruining.)

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Sounds like you need to find a new college. I don't get any of that from my classes.

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I can understand the annoyance but I dout anyone would quit over it.

I can understand the annoyance just because im in college and every class they somehow tie back into a speech about gay black or women equality.

Not that im against any of these things but i swear that my entire English course was about homosexuality. Gets annoying

And my entire sociology course was about how we are all apparently racist horrible people and women get sooo insanely mistreated in our society. Im not saying we don't have some issues but dam not in the degree that professor thought

I had a child development class where the teacher talked constantly about how blacks are abused by "the white man's system". Aids was developed by the white man to cull the black population and so forth. After three weeks I went to the dean and transferred to another class.

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Posted (edited)

Sounds like you need to find a new college. I don't get any of that from my classes.

Ohio State University lol :tsu: . I have more stories but Idk could of just been luck of the draw, some of my other teachers have been normal.

I had a child development class where the teacher talked constantly about how blacks are abused by "the white man's system". Aids was developed by the white man to cull the black population and so forth. After three weeks I went to the dean and transferred to another class.

lol ffs teachers these days

Edited by spartan max2

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lol ffs teachers these days

Pffft! These days? That was over twenty years ago.

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Pffft! These days? That was over twenty years ago.

hahaha , my bad assumed you where younger :innocent: lol

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hahaha , my bad assumed you where younger :innocent: lol

That's never a bad thing... :-* lol

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Wait till an openly gay pilot grabs a hold of that topgun joystick! The F-18 Hornette will maneuver like no other.

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Yes let's ignore it all because homosexuals and women don't matter. We are just non-entities.

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Wait till an openly gay pilot grabs a hold of that topgun joystick! The F-18 Hornette will maneuver like no other.

I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything reading that.

By the way, does anybody else have a certain "Village People" song playing in there head right about now?

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Yes let's ignore it all because homosexuals and women don't matter. We are just non-entities.

In all fairness, its the United States Navy. What do you think a Navy should be doing? Focusing on being an effective fighting force, or social injustice?

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Yes let's ignore it all because homosexuals and women don't matter. We are just non-entities.

No, but if you emphasize anything too much people tend to start tuning you out or rebelling. The ones that don't care still won't and the ones that do will even start to back away from the subject.

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Yes let's ignore it all because homosexuals and women don't matter. We are just non-entities.

Clearly that is what we are advocating for.... :whistle: (Sarcasm, just to point out for the slow people)

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Posted (edited)

^^^ That's the problem with these conversations. The great majority of people understand there are issues that need addressed and debated. It's when the issues are crammed and crowbarred into every conceivable matter is when people get turned off and when you get turned off about it, such as the point of this thread, you get a small group with a big mouth and limited ability to reason yelling things such as what Spartan quoted above. It's ridiculous and it's everything wrong with the social justice mindset. Those who share that mindset feel that if you don't bend over backwards to recognize every special interest plight every minute of the day then you must be a heartless bigot. My feeling is that if you are fighting a good fight then keep on fighting it. Just because I don't fight with you doesn't mean I stand against you. Sorry but I have my own things going on and frankly if I'm not against you then I'm not your problem. You have my moral support but don't expect me to hold the same passion or make it the highlight of my conversations.

As for the op, the military has one purpose. Train war fighters with a respectable code of conduct within the ranks. The military's job is not social awareness outside of respecting a code of conduct with other personnel. We want warriors, not people exceptionally trained to be sensitive.

Edited by F3SS
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I'm guessing this guy is nostalgic for the good old days when the gays had to keep thier mouths shut and women in the service got ignored if they complained about misconduct. Do you really believe that a jet fighter pilot is going to give up the high of flying an F-18 off of an aircraft carrier just because he has to take a sensitivity class?

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Sheesh, we were complaining about this 20 years ago. I remember back in NAS Bermuda (harsh duty station, that one), it got to the point that we were having an Equal Opportunity lecture every month or so. It became the number one CO suggestion box comment: "We get it, equal treatment, can we move on please?"

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I'm guessing this guy is nostalgic for the good old days when the gays had to keep thier mouths shut and women in the service got ignored if they complained about misconduct. Do you really believe that a jet fighter pilot is going to give up the high of flying an F-18 off of an aircraft carrier just because he has to take a sensitivity class?

Speaking for myself here, I don't think the problem isn't people speaking up (especially with women being harassed, I cringe knowing this is still a thing). The situation is more of having the situation shoved into your thought constantly, something that you really shouldn't be doing with service men (especially with a technologically dependent branch like the Navy), especially when the point of raising awareness is so everybody can be on an equal field and they can get on with their days.

Its sort of like saying (and I'm exaggerating a bit to make a point) you should throw a party anytime somebody comes out, when you really shouldn't give much of a damn if the guy next to you likes guys or not (or if the person next to you is a woman), who cares either way!?! Just show some respect and get on with your day, you have much more important things to do anyway, like making sure that F-18 lands alright and you don't spend the rest of the day scrapping a roasted pilot off the flight deck.

As for that last bit: No, I highly doubt anybody is going to up and leave because of any of the above. In fact you probably couldn't even if you wanted to.

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None of this stuff really is constantly. Safety stand down is once a quarter at most, and EO, suicide, and sexual harassment training is yearly unless there is an incident...

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None of this stuff really is constantly. Safety stand down is once a quarter at most, and EO, suicide, and sexual harassment training is yearly unless there is an incident...

I don't doubt it. I think this discussion is more of the issue in overall society. Lets face it: Every TV show needs a token gay character, or a black guy (according to Spike Lee anyway).

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I don't doubt it. I think this discussion is more of the issue in overall society. Lets face it: Every TV show needs a token gay character, or a black guy (according to Spike Lee anyway).

But a gay black character? That's a different kettle of fish altogether, isn't it. Ethnic Minorities are among the most prejudiced of all.

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Trying to teach your soldiers, sailors or pilots not to rape one another doesn't fall under the umbrella of political correctness. I'm afraid that stuff is just basic human decency, but it'd be foolish of me to expect that from the armed forces, wouldn't it?

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Life isn't quite that black and white.

The last weekend before we graduated from OCS, we went out on the town in groups to let off a little steam. When we came back, we hear about two of our class being held pending an investigation. I knew both people and neither one would have been someone I pegged as either a rapist or a false accuser. Both were proclaiming their innocence. All we knew for sure is that both had gone out and rented a room out in town (our group did pretty much the same thing), and somewhere along the weekend, sex was involved.

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