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ask21771

solving the mystery of the afterlife

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Is science coming closer to proving the afterlife exists (or doesn't exist)

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Is science coming closer to proving the afterlife exists (or doesn't exist)

Yes I believe so, but science only proves things. It does not disprove. If proper studies are conducted on NDEs and it turns out that people cannot see things within statistical significance when they shouldn't it will be a blow to the positive. Unfortunately those conducting the experiments i dont think they are consulting with those that are familiar with the OBE environment. This is not good, they do not know how to properly control the experiment and are leaving things up to random observation. It's a bit like a scientist designing an experiment under water using divers but is not a diver himself and does not consult with one.

But yes we are inching forward. What also has to happen is to eliminate creative assumptions and explanation and stick with the facts.

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"Creative assumptions". I like that, WCF. I personally think that life after death if it exists is external to the realm of science. There may be some physics involved, but these would be within the laws of physics and may not apply to the spiritual realm (or whatever you wish to call it)..

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it will become very clear for all of us, eventually...

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Yes I believe so, but science only proves things. It does not disprove. If proper studies are conducted on NDEs and it turns out that people cannot see things within statistical significance when they shouldn't it will be a blow to the positive. Unfortunately those conducting the experiments i dont think they are consulting with those that are familiar with the OBE environment. This is not good, they do not know how to properly control the experiment and are leaving things up to random observation. It's a bit like a scientist designing an experiment under water using divers but is not a diver himself and does not consult with one.

But yes we are inching forward. What also has to happen is to eliminate creative assumptions and explanation and stick with the facts.

what the facts say

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anyone else think were close to proving the existence of the afterlife

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I dont think they will.

They will figure how to make us live longer and borderline immortal first.

At one point we will be cyborg like with all our parts being replaceable.

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I think ill the afterlife instead

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I know there's been som break through with quantum physics lately

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Posted (edited)

There were headlines recently about a physicist "proving" the existence of God.

I found a very honest reply to that topic from a scientist/minister here:

http://www.renewingyourmind.com/Articles/Quantum_Physics.htm

I like how he says that physicists are not necessarily coming to faith in God through the study of physics, but many are recognizing the orderliness of the universe. As a Christian, I have hope that the next step will be a recognition of the existence of an Intelligent Designer behind the orderliness.

Edited to add:

I personally believe that Science & Theology are two sides of the same coin. Although they appear to be at odds, they will eventually be reconciled. The article I posted seems to have a similar outlook.

Edited by simplybill

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There were headlines recently about a physicist "proving" the existence of God.

I found a very honest reply to that topic from a scientist/minister here:

http://www.renewingy...tum_Physics.htm

I like how he says that physicists are not necessarily coming to faith in God through the study of physics, but many are recognizing the orderliness of the universe. As a Christian, I have hope that the next step will be a recognition of the existence of an Intelligent Designer behind the orderliness.

and stuff like this http://www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com/scientists-claim-that-quantum-theory-proves-consciousness-moves-to-another-universe-at-death/

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Evidence for the afterlife is largely the result of spiritual hope experienced proleptically through life-threatening crisis (crises), and reported as adrenalin-encased returns from a assumed state of threat or death. I believe it is too idiosyncratic and subjective an area to bring us very close to proving an afterworld in any scientific or observational manner.

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I edited my earlier post: the article you just posted is an example of what I mean when I say that Science & Theology will some day be reconciled.

However, they have a long way to go before the opposing sides of the debate will declare a tie!

In the meantime, it's fascinating to watch as they inch closer together.

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I wish there was something that could keep track of the progress to see the truth of the progress

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Posted (edited)

"Creative assumptions". I like that, WCF. I personally think that life after death if it exists is external to the realm of science. There may be some physics involved, but these would be within the laws of physics and may not apply to the spiritual realm (or whatever you wish to call it)..

I think you are possibly right. But we measure things based on their effects. A spiritual world may leave traces of itself in the physical world. Much like scientists think gravity maybe is weak because its leaking from other dimensions. If the spirit world is a place of non physical consciousness, then its affects can only be measured through consciousness which is an anthema to science and its needed but suspect marginalization of the individual.

Edited by White Crane Feather

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what the facts say

Facts don't say anything... You do.

But it's a fact that upon cardiac arrest the brain looses its ability to have any kind of complex cognitive experience. By fact i mean a plethora of research done by doctors trying to figure out better methods of resuscitation and many many animals put to death while imaging their brains.

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Evidence for the afterlife is largely the result of spiritual hope experienced proleptically through life-threatening crisis (crises), and reported as adrenalin-encased returns from a assumed state of threat or death. I believe it is too idiosyncratic and subjective an area to bring us very close to proving an afterworld in any scientific or observational manner.

Not at all. The aware study and some of its experiments do have the potential to come back with hard data that consciousness survives the body. I'm not holding my breath though I have looked at the experiments and there is a serious flaw that I have already mentioned.

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Facts don't say anything... You do.

But it's a fact that upon cardiac arrest the brain looses its ability to have any kind of complex cognitive experience. By fact i mean a plethora of research done by doctors trying to figure out better methods of resuscitation and many many animals put to death while imaging their brains.

by cognitive experience you mean nde

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Not at all. The aware study and some of its experiments do have the potential to come back with hard data that consciousness survives the body. I'm not holding my breath though I have looked at the experiments and there is a serious flaw that I have already mentioned.

At present I don't understand how something wholly other can be captured by any means of this current reality.

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At present I don't understand how something wholly other can be captured by any means of this current reality.

maybe it can't

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anyone else care to weigh in

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Posted (edited)

hellllooo?

Maybe this is just dormant for the time being. It may yet resurrect. I'm still of the opinion that, whatever/however/whenever, the Afterlife "is," it may be so different from what we have experienced or can imagine that our speculation is unhelpful. The theological word for approaching such not-yet-being is a "doxological" approach, "doxology" referring to the literal praiseworthiness of something 'Wholly-Other.'

Edited by DeWitz
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hellllooo?

ask-

It's interesting that your screen name contains the word "ask", as in, "Ask, and you shall receive."

So, here's my 2 cents worth.

The bible says we're made in God's image. God is triune, being composed of mind, body and spirit. In my uneducated, non-theological mind, I translate that to mean: The Mind of God (Father), God Incarnate (Jesus), and the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit). From the beginning, God has been a community that is contained in itself as a single entity.

We humans also were originally composed of mind, body and spirit, or three functioning realities contained within one single entity. The problems of our broken world began when we chose to forsake the "spirit" part of our existence by disconnecting from the source of Spirit (God). The world we live in (the world created by God) is sufficient to meet our physical and mental needs, but because we are missing that third component we stumble, we fall, and we make a mess of our lives, our relationships and our world.

How many times have you said to yourself, "There has to be more to life than this"? You're aware that something is missing.

When Jesus said, "You must be born again", he was talking about reconnecting us to the source of Spirit (Himself). When that connection is made, we are restored to the original plan that God had for us, which is fellowship with Him. We become "triune" again, and one of the benefits is we now have the tools to improve the world and improve our lives.

I encourage you to be like the man in Luke, chapter 6, who "dug deep", and laid his foundation on the rock. It's important to keep asking until you're answered.

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At present I don't understand how something wholly other can be captured by any means of this current reality.

You are right about this... But it dosnt have to be captured. There simply may be ways it affects this reality particularly through an interface which might be a conscious individual. If the aware study is able to show that conscious awareness can exist outside of the body close to death, then we have powerful evidence of some sort of spirit. It's data. Not completely conclusive in the nature of a spirit world but powerful. Also if it can be shown that the brain is incapable of cognitive experiences under certain conditions and it can be shown that people still have them at that tine, then we have evidence... Not conclusions but evidence.

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