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Was Jesus really crucified in a 'T' shape ?


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Yea Stalin had no trouble praying and going to Orthodox priests and so on all the time. I think the best way to describe him is as a sociopath who professed atheism to his Communists out of convenience but was basically both religious and superstitious.

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You would think God's truth would result in religious movements that are better than others, not worse.

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I'd say then that you need to meet more Christians, because the ones you know are probably comparable to the A-hole atheists I know.

The inquisition? That was 500 years ago. How about we talk about the Soviet Atheist empire, which was less then 30 years ago and what kinds of horrors those Atheists did in their Gulags and Mass Political killings?

If,

Christianity = Crusades & Inquisition

Then,

Atheism = Soviets & Political Purge of 3 million

Can you give a qoute, and source of a Communist saying that they torture, or kill in the name of not believing in God?

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Can you give a qoute, and source of a Communist saying that they torture, or kill in the name of not believing in God?

I hate the insinuation that Atheism carries the same sort of tenets and faiths as Christianity etc.Its a simple disbelief in the existence of a god or gods,nothing more than that.It doesn't automatically mean one is prone to evil acts without a faith to keep you in check

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One has to wonder about people who think we need belief in a vengeful god to behave themselves.

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I hate the insinuation that Atheism carries the same sort of tenets and faiths as Christianity etc.Its a simple disbelief in the existence of a god or gods,nothing more than that.It doesn't automatically mean one is prone to evil acts without a faith to keep you in check

It's indoctrination, and there are verses to back it up this line of thinking.

Watch this for a laugh, and cry.

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I hate the insinuation that Atheism carries the same sort of tenets and faiths as Christianity etc.Its a simple disbelief in the existence of a god or gods,nothing more than that.It doesn't automatically mean one is prone to evil acts without a faith to keep you in check

Yeah, it kind of irks me that there is a double standard here. Any religious people who do wrong are dismissed as not "true" Christians but Stalin is continually thrown in my face as an example of what happens when atheism takes root.
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You would think God's truth would result in religious movements that are better than others, not worse.

Which parts are worse?

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One has to wonder about people who think we need belief in a vengeful god to behave themselves.

Where does Vengeful come in with the Christian God? Damnation to Hell?

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Can you give a qoute, and source of a Communist saying that they torture, or kill in the name of not believing in God?

Why should I have to? If we are comparing Atheists to Christians, as people, which is what I believe you were implying, then it is the person who needs to be judged, not any particular quote.

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Where does Vengeful come in with the Christian God? Damnation to Hell?

Mark 6:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

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I hate the insinuation that Atheism carries the same sort of tenets and faiths as Christianity etc.Its a simple disbelief in the existence of a god or gods,nothing more than that.It doesn't automatically mean one is prone to evil acts without a faith to keep you in check

That is true, and many atheists are probably fine people. A disbelief in any kind of God or universal control does in fact free an individual from enforced morality. They are automatically more likely to justify their own actions according to their own personnel morals and ethics, which may, or may not, align with that of society.

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Mark 6:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

So... yes, then, the Day of Judgement.... again....

Guess you just get to live your entire life however you choose, then die. Then 2000+ years later, at the Final Judgement, where you'll be called back up (and probably very surprised) and offered to Believe and Repent, or to go into the Fire. And I'm sure many will still stubbornly refuse (This is some sort of Trick) and go into the Fire.

OH MY GOD!!! You get to live your life however you damn well choose then get a chance at going to Heaven anyway. That Vengeful Son of a Gun!!!!

Edited by DieChecker
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Why should I have to? If we are comparing Atheists to Christians, as people, which is what I believe you were implying, then it is the person who needs to be judged, not any particular quote.

Matthew 8:21-23

King James Version (KJV)

21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

23 And when he was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him.

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So... yes, then, the Day of Judgement.... again....

Guess you just get to live your entire life however you choose, then die. Then 2000+ years later, at the Final Judgement, where you'll be called back up (and probably very surprised) and offered to Believe and Repent, or to go into the Fire. And I'm sure many will still stubbornly refuse (This is some sort of Trick) and go into the Fire.

OH MY GOD!!! You get to live your life however you damn well choose then get a chance at going to Heaven anyway. That Vengeful Son of a Gun!!!!

How often do you hear Jesus talking to you?

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So... yes, then, the Day of Judgement.... again....

Guess you just get to live your entire life however you choose, then die. Then 2000+ years later, at the Final Judgement, where you'll be called back up (and probably very surprised) and offered to Believe and Repent, or to go into the Fire. And I'm sure many will still stubbornly refuse (This is some sort of Trick) and go into the Fire.

OH MY GOD!!! You get to live your life however you damn well choose then get a chance at going to Heaven anyway. That Vengeful Son of a Gun!!!!

I don't know where you get this from but according to the way the preachers taught me if your name isn't in the book of life before you die you don't get to repent at judgement day but Jesus says "I never knew you" and it's straight to the lake of fire. There isn't a much more vengeful cod than the god of Abraham in the old testament. I believe this is the same one as God the father of Christianity
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How often do you hear Jesus talking to you?

Not often enough.

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I don't know where you get this from but according to the way the preachers taught me if your name isn't in the book of life before you die you don't get to repent at judgement day but Jesus says "I never knew you" and it's straight to the lake of fire. There isn't a much more vengeful cod than the god of Abraham in the old testament. I believe this is the same one as God the father of Christianity

That is the simple version.

Here is what is written in the New International Version (NIV)...

The Judgment of the Dead

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

http://www.biblegate... 20&version=NIV

1. The dead are called up.

2. Multiple books are opened. (With everyones' life stories within, I assume.)

3. Book of life is opened.

4. People are judged according to their actions in life.

5. Those not in the book of life are thrown into the Fire.

What is not explained is why bother going through everyone's life if it doesn't matter. Logically then, it does matter. So if people are judged "good" by their life story, and profess belief in Jesus, then their name goes into the book of life right there and then.

That seems logical to me.

Edited by DieChecker
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That is the simple version.

Here is what is written in the New International Version (NIV)...

http://www.biblegate... 20&version=NIV

1. The dead are called up.

2. Multiple books are opened. (With everyones' life stories within, I assume.)

3. Book of life is opened.

4. People are judged according to their actions in life.

5. Those not in the book of life are thrown into the Fire.

What is not explained is why bother going through everyone's life if it doesn't matter. Logically then, it does matter. So if people are judged "good" by their life story, and profess belief in Jesus, then their name goes into the book of life right there and then.

That seems logical to me.

There is nothing logical about any part of this theology.
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There is nothing logical about any part of this theology.

Then why worry about it? Because people who are in charge believe it?

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The difference between being Religious and Mentally ill is that a mentally ill person can't function in society for long.

It you mean to point out that religious people have slightly different chemistry. I'd agree with that. But it is also true that your brain/body chemistry alters with your actions and beliefs regardless of what those beliefs are.

I'd not argue against the fact that humans are basically primed from birth to be religious. And that those who are non-religious simply are aware of that and dismiss it consciously.

I would argue against the statement that religion is useless. I'd argue against dismissing traditions that pass on our societies morals and ethics.

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Mark 6:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Somebody asked about a judgmental deity? How is it possible for a well-meaning person to believe a book with passages like that in it?
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I'd not argue against the fact that humans are basically primed from birth to be religious. And that those who are non-religious simply are aware of that and dismiss it consciously.

I would argue against the statement that religion is useless. I'd argue against dismissing traditions that pass on our societies morals and ethics.

Most are primed from birth but not at birth. Religion is cultural; that is why most Egyptians are Muslims and most Thais are Buddhists and so on, unless their parents were something else.

Traditions can work for good or or ill.

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Then why worry about it? Because people who are in charge believe it?

I suppose primarily that is the thing. Or at least they profess to believe it to pander to those who do. Christians seem to constantly claim their religion is under attack to try and justify legislating their brand of morality. I don't mean to say this is true of all Christians but a very vocal minority
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