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antiguogrumete

Chemtrails, the proof

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An aircraft spraying a mysterious liquid, while take off...

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Since when does fuel come out of the wing tips? and its not even worth talking about as you haven't backed it up.

Wasted my time

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Posted (edited)

It's a wing vortex.

Here's how it looks from inside the plane - skip to 35 seconds.

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Go to You Tube and search for 'wing vortex takeoff' and you'll find dozens of videos.

Edited by Rafterman
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Oh Dear they forgot to shut the valve for the toilet pump-out, and someone used it on take off.

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Posted (edited)

First... I presume the OP is talking about some type of "secret" program to spread mind-altering chemicals with a commercial flight.

Well, sorry, that's just not real.

Second, the fuel of a commercial airliner is held in wing tanks.

During an emergency situation requiring a fuel dump, it will come out of one or more specially constructed portal valves of the wings, usually at the ends of the wings to keep the fuel dump from interacting with the turbine engines, which could cause an explosion.

No surprise here.

Edited by pallidin
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Chemtrails, the anti-proof.

That would be a more accurate title.

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Visiting the US I notice a lot of streaks in the sky all the time but here in Melbourne I would probably see it once a month if I'm lucky. Just an interesting observation.

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More air traffic in the US?

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Visiting the US I notice a lot of streaks in the sky all the time but here in Melbourne I would probably see it once a month if I'm lucky. Just an interesting observation.

Really? Even in the middle of nowhere in northern Alberta I would see several each day.

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More air traffic in the US?

That's exactly what it is.

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Visiting the US I notice a lot of streaks in the sky all the time but here in Melbourne I would probably see it once a month if I'm lucky. Just an interesting observation.

Actually, there is quite a lot more to it.... Sure, there is much more air traffic in the US, but contrails will normally only form at over 25,000 feet or so, and then only if the atmospheric conditions are right...

So...

How many aircraft go over Melbourne at high altitude? Most aircraft in that region will be coming into land or taking off, so NO contrails from them. It will only be high overflights. Adelaide tends to see quite a few - (flights between Perth and Melbourne/Sydney), but Brisbane hardly any... It's all about where the flight paths go and how high the aircraft will normally be, and then how many flights..

Also, latitude, geography and season/climate/weather will affect the likelihood of contrails.

The chemtrail conspiracy (ie that the Gubmint is using high flying aircraft to spray who knows what onto the population at large) is simply laughable. If I was asked to come up with a less efficient, less accurate, less discriminating method for spraying the population... nope, I couldn't come up with anything that was more ridiculous..

PLUS, the science behind contrails is quite simple and well understood, and it would be trivially easy (especially in the US with all the flight tracking and upper atmosphere weather info) for anyone who truly believed in it to show a flight that was NOT in the right weather conditions to contrail. I've explained how to do this elsewhere (let me know if you need a link), but the killer is this:

NOT ONE chemtrail believer has EVER been able to show an aircraft 'trailing' when the conditions were not right (eg below ~20,000 feet, or in the wrong temperature/humidity/dewpoint conditions).

Seriously, this is by far the silliest conspiracy theory, and the easiest to dismiss with even the most basic understanding of meteorology, how ice clouds form at high altitudes, and the operation of jet engines.

FTR, the trail shown in the OP is most likely a fuel dump or wing vortex - it's not really a contrail at all. And I guess fuel is a chemical (so is water/ice..), so it is a chemical trail in a way...

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Reviewing the vid, it looks like the left wing fuel dump valve malfuctioned, but it seems the pilot was able to get it closed.

Just speculating, of course.

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No proof of "chemtrails" here. BS^10!

As the BOEING 737s do not have fuel dumping systems it can be excluded that the trail was caused by such system.

I also will exclude a wing fortex as the trail is just at the left wing and not on the right one also. I would say the trial is

caused by condense water from the water separator of the aircon or it has something to do with the APU fuel pump/

shutoff valve that is located in the left wing on 737s.

Maybe we have an A/C technican or so here who can clarify.

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Actually, there is quite a lot more to it.... Sure, there is much more air traffic in the US, but contrails will normally only form at over 25,000 feet or so, and then only if the atmospheric conditions are right...

So...

How many aircraft go over Melbourne at high altitude? Most aircraft in that region will be coming into land or taking off, so NO contrails from them. It will only be high overflights. Adelaide tends to see quite a few - (flights between Perth and Melbourne/Sydney), but Brisbane hardly any... It's all about where the flight paths go and how high the aircraft will normally be, and then how many flights..

Also, latitude, geography and season/climate/weather will affect the likelihood of contrails.

The chemtrail conspiracy (ie that the Gubmint is using high flying aircraft to spray who knows what onto the population at large) is simply laughable. If I was asked to come up with a less efficient, less accurate, less discriminating method for spraying the population... nope, I couldn't come up with anything that was more ridiculous..

PLUS, the science behind contrails is quite simple and well understood, and it would be trivially easy (especially in the US with all the flight tracking and upper atmosphere weather info) for anyone who truly believed in it to show a flight that was NOT in the right weather conditions to contrail. I've explained how to do this elsewhere (let me know if you need a link), but the killer is this:

NOT ONE chemtrail believer has EVER been able to show an aircraft 'trailing' when the conditions were not right (eg below ~20,000 feet, or in the wrong temperature/humidity/dewpoint conditions).

Seriously, this is by far the silliest conspiracy theory, and the easiest to dismiss with even the most basic understanding of meteorology, how ice clouds form at high altitudes, and the operation of jet engines.

FTR, the trail shown in the OP is most likely a fuel dump or wing vortex - it's not really a contrail at all. And I guess fuel is a chemical (so is water/ice..), so it is a chemical trail in a way...

Thanks for the explanation! Makes perfect sense. Hadn't really looked into any of it too deeply but this pretty much puts the whole conspiracy to bed.

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Thanks Orcseeker - posts like that make it all worthwhile!

If anyone has any followup questions, I'm happy to discuss contrail formation. A few years back this 'chem'trail stuff seemed to get a foothold and I looked into it *very* deeply. There is not a shred of evidence supporting it, and it seems the whole thing was set up to get money off the gullible. If you are interested in the sad tale of the worst scammers, Google "carnicom thomas $6000 in situ"

Those two scamming scumbags basically invented the conspiracy, collected over six thousand bucks supposedly to do some "in situ" tests (ie high altitude tests where they would chase an aircraft..), and then oh, look, the money somehow vanished, and not a single test was ever done. Carnicom and Thomas knew dam well that such tests would only collect water(ice) and a bit of combustion residue, so the end result was hardly surprising...

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Thanks Orcseeker - posts like that make it all worthwhile!

If anyone has any followup questions, I'm happy to discuss contrail formation. A few years back this 'chem'trail stuff seemed to get a foothold and I looked into it *very* deeply. There is not a shred of evidence supporting it, and it seems the whole thing was set up to get money off the gullible. If you are interested in the sad tale of the worst scammers, Google "carnicom thomas $6000 in situ"

Those two scamming scumbags basically invented the conspiracy, collected over six thousand bucks supposedly to do some "in situ" tests (ie high altitude tests where they would chase an aircraft..), and then oh, look, the money somehow vanished, and not a single test was ever done. Carnicom and Thomas knew dam well that such tests would only collect water(ice) and a bit of combustion residue, so the end result was hardly surprising...

Learning a lot every day now ;)

I too remember when it gained prevalence. Videos on conspiracies around that time would always display a sky in the US riddled with contrails. I believe there was a thread or two here on these forums enforcing the same chemical distribution to the population via aircraft theory to explain these.

I'll make sure to use this newfound knowledge to put these chemtrail conspirators at bay. It's good to know there are other critical thinkers out there.

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The video is hardly proof of chemtrails. It does appear to record some sort of leak out the left wing leading edge area.

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When the conditions are right for a "trail" to form from engine heat, air temperature etc. they don't last long at all. You can watch them dissipate in just a few seconds. But some "Trails" last for a much much longer time and seem denser.

How is that explained ChrLzs?

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When the conditions are right for a "trail" to form from engine heat, air temperature etc. they don't last long at all. You can watch them dissipate in just a few seconds. But some "Trails" last for a much much longer time and seem denser.

How is that explained ChrLzs?

Same way clouds sometimes stay in the sky. The conditions are right for them to do so. It is a blatant falsehood that contrails always don't last long.

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Even though I would not be surprised if it turned out to be true, I am most skeptical of chemtrails. There is no credible evidence that it's happening.

That airliners would be involved in it is absurd.

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Any particular part of this 77 minute video you find compelling? Or should we just treat this like the seagull posting it appears to be?

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praetorian, you need to think this through. To repeat frenat's summary in my usual long-winded fashion.. Contrails are effectively clouds, that are generated (both seeded and supplied with water/ice vapour) by the aircraft's jet exhaust. I'm happy to go into more detail if you don't understand the mechanism (please ask), but if you accept that... Clouds, obviously, can be non-existent, quite short lived, or quite long lasting, or they can grow into huge cloudbanks... Agreed? And that is simply due to the atmospheric conditions at the altitude being considered. Contrails are simply 'artificially seeded' clouds, and other than the fact that the aircraft provides both the seed particles *and* a lot of water vapour (in the form of ice crystals), once they are created they act EXACTLY as any normal cloud would, at that altitude.

So:

- if the conditions are not conducive to clouds, they will either not exist or be quite shortlived (ie short in length).

- if the conditions are just short of exactly right, they will be long-lived and probably stay up there as long trails for quite a while..

- if the conditions are conducive to clouds, then all that was required was the 'seeding' - so once they are laid down by the jet they will grow into quite thick cloud banks. You can often tell that is the case (and see it happen) when there are some pre-existing /growing cirrus clouds..

So of course they vary just like normal clouds do. And also, as conditions will vary both in height and also location, the contrail 'results' can vary.

If you don't get any of this, please say so, and I'll elaborate.

Nosuchthing, firstly, yes there is no such thing as 'chem'trails as portrayed by the CTs.

Posting a youtube link to such a long video, without even bothering to offer an explanation of what it was about, let alone why you were suckered impressed, is extremely rude,

Would you care to rectify that by:

1. Explaining what is your considered opinion of the topic

2. Explaining what was so compelling to you in that video and why, and also why your opinion is noteworthy - do you have any background or expertise gained from researching it in proper detail? (researching properly, btw, does not mean cruisin' the sewers of Youtube). Do you understand contrails?

3. Giving the timings of the compelling parts of the video so we aren't required to watch more than an hour and a quarter, on your say so... or rather your saying of absolutely NOTHING..

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When the conditions are right for a "trail" to form from engine heat, air temperature etc. they don't last long at all. You can watch them dissipate in just a few seconds. But some "Trails" last for a much much longer time and seem denser.

How is that explained ChrLzs?

My bet is that factors such as the batch of fuel being used has much to do with how long contrails last. So too, the temperature and relative humidity of the air.

Quality of fuel is effected by, e.g., sulfur content and other variables that change from one fuel load to the next due to the quality of the crude from which the process begins, and the refining process itself.

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